The Jim Hendry BandWGN

[Larry Horse]

I wholeheartedly agree with you, however, I think you could say that about almost everyone on this board, so you're not saying much there.

I'm sorry I must have missed the "No pessimists allowed" memo.

 

How many games Nomar has played since joining the Cubs isn't the point.

Well yes, that is my point. I don't expect great things out of a guy who hasn't even played half of a year since being acquired.

 

If what you are saying is that he will simply re-injure himself and not play very much at all the rest of this year then and only then does your "stat that you can't ignore" come into play.

 

Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. I can only go by what I have seen out of Nomar, which isn't much. The fact that he has played in 65 games in one year, coupled with the fact he is getting older, would leave me to believe that he's not very dependable.

 

You have proven my point yet again. You see Fox and don't balance it out with Dempster. I see both. You see Wood being terrible and getting injured again and don't balance it out with that he can also be dominant. I see both. I'm not asking you to ignore anything. I think you are already ignoring enough. pointing out that you seem to ignore the positive possibilities that exist for how the next two months could go for the Cubs. I know that the "boost" may not materialize. But I also know that it may. Thats why they play the games.

 

Well, I'm not sure what point I proved for you. You choose to look at it positively and I don't. If that's your point, then my whole post proves that point.

 

Yes, Wood can be dominant. The key is "can be". Can Kerry would stay healthy for an extended period of time? I would have to say no. And Dempster, absolutely great pickup, also coming off of arm surgery. But as Fox proved, it really isn't wise to count on those type of guys to save your bullpen.

 

Yes, yes, we all know Dusty is an idiot, a fool, a buffoon and every other name you can come up with because he doesn't run the team as you would. And we also know that you knew way ahead of time that Murton would perform the way he has. This is how brilliant you are, even though after playing in his 6th game he was batting .250/.333/.333, you somehow knew he would get 4 singles in his next game to raise his numbers. And to anyone who says that this is 20/20 hindsight, I say phooey.

 

But seriously, I agree with you. I want Murton to play and start more often than he has, too. What I don't do is assume that because I want it to be so means that it should be so.

 

Nice how you threw in "But seriously", because I would have sworn that was a personal attack, which I thought wasn't allowed.

 

How I look at that is this way: Great bench player in Hollandsworth, struggles as a starter. GM brings up Murton, who after 6 games is batting .250 (which is what the guy who he replaced has batted for the whole year, so what could starting him hurt) but starts to put up good numbers when he plays. Now, Cubs Win, would you stick Holly back in or leave Murton out there until he no longer proves he should be? Of course I had no idea how he would perform, that's why he should have been starting, then maybe Lawton wouldn't have had to have been traded for, which was my point. Same with Cedeno. Cub fans know what Holly and Perez can do, how much worse could Cedeno and Murton do? That is my point. That isn't being "brilliant", it's just common sense.

 

You forgot the word "only" in between the word "continue" and the word "seeing".

Sounds strangely like another personal comment......

 

And how can someone prove to you what has yet to happen? We are talking about the possible future of the Chicago Cubs over the next two months. How does proving anything come into play in a discussion about what the future might hold?

 

I can't, I can just go by what I've seen. I haven't seen Nomar play a full year, so until he does I'll assume he won't, and I haven't seen Kerry pitch a full season since '03, so I'll assume he can't until I'm proven otherwise.

 

I've been a Cubs fan for almost 30 years. They have made the playoffs 3 times and never been in a World Series in that span. Maybe that explains my negativity in regards to the Cubs.

[neely crenshaw]

not even close to reality.

he got a starter and cash for the guy who was our hottest prospect starting the season DUBOIS///remember we traded dubois for gerut!

 

hendry screwed this team up by not getting help the last 2 years. he has mortgaged our last 2 seasons on hope that prepetually injured players get healthy and return to form. he has not signed one sure fire fix in his tenure. we were dangerously close to being the best team in the nl after 2003 and now? we are barely in the top 10....yeah kudos to jim =we got lawton but for me it is much too little much too late!

[katway]

If the Cubs offense "magically" turns around and become good and they make it to the playoffs I will gladly proclaim my stupidity to anyone who reads my posts

 

-I'll put that in my signature

 

Our offense is streaky, but I don't know why everyone thinks it is so unbelievably terrible. It is above average in the NL, and not the team's biggest problem. I'd say that our pitching, specifically the bullpen, should be a much bigger concern. Today's game is a good example of the team's pitching problems.

Cubs pitching in close and late games is the 2nd best in the league. Offense is the problem, especially OBP. Lack of patience is the reason why they get shut down by crappy pitchers and bullpens very often.

 

Does lack of patience also explain why they are 5th in the NL in runs? They do score quite often. The are probably streakier than most teams, but I think some people underestimate the offense. Do you not understand that very high batting average and slugging percentage can make up for somewhat below average OBP?

 

The team is in 8th in the NL in ERA. It's not bad, but should be better for a playoff team.

 

Thanks for disspelling the myth that the Cubs offense is the main culprit. If people want to point figures, point it at the Trib for not giving Hendry enough money to get another superstar pitcher.

 

Offense has been a problem because we get streaky and score in bunches. Sure that helps your stats when you get 10 mruns in one game, but it does't help if you only score two or three runs for the next three games and get shut out 5 times during the year. The offense needs to be more consistent. The year long stats don't tell the whol story and being 5th in a category may not be good enough if you want to lead your division or win the wildcard. One thing for sure, the 5th best team in the NL wont make the playoffs.

 

This is just utter propaganda. The 11th best team in runs, Houston, is up in the wildcard. The White Sox are 5th in the AL in runs and blowing everyone away in the AL. Sure the Cubs need to score more runs, but having a strong 3rd starter would be nice.

 

When I said "the 5th best team in the NL wont make the playoffs", I was refering to a team's record to point out that 5th place is not "good enough" and that we shouldn't accept that 5th in runs scored means we are doing a good enough job scoring runs.

 

Baseball is situational. Houston looked horrible for the first 2 months and that is why they are 11th in scoring, I bet they are more than 11th in scoring the last 2 months. In addition, yes a starter would help, but an offense that scores 2 to 3 runs followed by a 12 run game is not going to get you very far unless your starters have an ERA below 2.

[CubfaninCA]

not even close to reality.

he got a starter and cash for the guy who was our hottest prospect starting the season DUBOIS///remember we traded dubois for gerut!

 

hendry screwed this team up by not getting help the last 2 years. he has mortgaged our last 2 seasons on hope that prepetually injured players get healthy and return to form. he has not signed one sure fire fix in his tenure. we were dangerously close to being the best team in the nl after 2003 and now? we are barely in the top 10....yeah kudos to jim =we got lawton but for me it is much too little much too late!

 

DuBois was the hottest prospect?? It's amazing how some turn 2 1/2 tool guys into 5 toolers. People need to get a grip. As for mortgaging the past 2 years, did you forsee Wood's injury problems?? If so, what would you have done??

[Tim]

not even close to reality.

he got a starter and cash for the guy who was our hottest prospect starting the season DUBOIS///remember we traded dubois for gerut!

 

hendry screwed this team up by not getting help the last 2 years. he has mortgaged our last 2 seasons on hope that prepetually injured players get healthy and return to form. he has not signed one sure fire fix in his tenure. we were dangerously close to being the best team in the nl after 2003 and now? we are barely in the top 10....yeah kudos to jim =we got lawton but for me it is much too little much too late!

Question: What "sure fire fixes" have there been on the market the past two years?

 

Here's what I see:

 

Beltran - big disappointment in NY

Drew - hurt again

Vlad - had back questions at contract signing, so was no sure thing at the time

etc.

 

 

About the only free agent signing that has gone gangbusters in that time has been Tejada. While I do wish that we had him, I have to admit that I didn't think he'd be this good, either. Well, me, JH and about 28 other GM's in the business who failed to outbid Baltimore.

[HoopsCubs]

Question: What "sure fire fixes" have there been on the market the past two years?

 

In addition to Tejada, Tim, I would add that in my opinion Jeff Kent was a great signing for Houston and for LA based on his high OPS.

[CubfaninCA]

not even close to reality.

he got a starter and cash for the guy who was our hottest prospect starting the season DUBOIS///remember we traded dubois for gerut!

 

hendry screwed this team up by not getting help the last 2 years. he has mortgaged our last 2 seasons on hope that prepetually injured players get healthy and return to form. he has not signed one sure fire fix in his tenure. we were dangerously close to being the best team in the nl after 2003 and now? we are barely in the top 10....yeah kudos to jim =we got lawton but for me it is much too little much too late!

Question: What "sure fire fixes" have there been on the market the past two years?

 

Here's what I see:

 

Beltran - big disappointment in NY

Drew - hurt again

Vlad - had back questions at contract signing, so was no sure thing at the time

etc.

 

 

About the only free agent signing that has gone gangbusters in that time has been Tejada. While I do wish that we had him, I have to admit that I didn't think he'd be this good, either. Well, me, JH and about 28 other GM's in the business who failed to outbid Baltimore.

 

Iirc Bartolo Colon was on the market a few years ago. Guess JH could have got him instead of Maddux, but few could forsee Prior and especially Wood's injury problems.

 

Vlad would have been nice, but Sosa was in rf at the time and was still productive and a huge ticket draw.

[CubfaninCA]

Question: What "sure fire fixes" have there been on the market the past two years?

 

In addition to Tejada, Tim, I would add that in my opinion Jeff Kent was a great signing for Houston and for LA based on his high OPS.

 

Good point about Kent. He seemed like a good fit, as he has a track record w/ Dusty.

[JC]

Question: What "sure fire fixes" have there been on the market the past two years?

 

In addition to Tejada, Tim, I would add that in my opinion Jeff Kent was a great signing for Houston and for LA based on his high OPS.

 

Good point about Kent. He seemed like a good fit, as he has a track record w/ Dusty.

 

I don't know that Kent was a big Baker fan. Remember, after Kent and Bonds got in that dugout scuffle, Baker seemed like he gave a pretty good shove to Kent when he was separating the two. I also remember Dusty yelling at Kent during/shortly after the episode, IIRC.

[Mizzou]

I don't know if I can jump on the Hendry bandwagon... he hasn't done much for the pen lately.

[JC]

I don't know if I can jump on the Hendry bandwagon... he hasn't done much for the pen lately.

 

I am a firm believer that bullpen success is, for the most part, contagious. That being said, the Cubs have not been able to put together strong, consistent bullpens in recent years. Hendry has made some rough decisions during that stretch. At the same time, bullpen usage patterns have been eratic, and I don't know how much oversight is given to the bullpen arms by Dusty, Pole, or Rothschild. Bottom line--it needs fixed and I don't have much confidence that this group (including Hendry) knows how to do it.

[HoopsCubs]

Question: What "sure fire fixes" have there been on the market the past two years?

 

In addition to Tejada, Tim, I would add that in my opinion Jeff Kent was a great signing for Houston and for LA based on his high OPS.

 

Good point about Kent. He seemed like a good fit, as he has a track record w/ Dusty.

 

If we had signed Kent either time he was available, I dare say 2004 and 2005 would have been different stories. There is still time to finish writing the 2005 story - GO CUBS.

[Satch80]

Cubfan, surely, surely you didn't think DuBois was our hottest prospect. He can't catch the ball and his K rate is frightening.

 

There are no sure fire signings. They can go down with injury (i.e. Drew, Beneitiz, etc) they can underperform (i.e. Beltre, Beltran).

 

The best any GM can do is try to put their team in position to win. Hendry has done that. There are no gaurantees no matter how high the payroll ( see Yankees, Mets ).

 

One can never have ( afford) sufficient backups when there are injuries to key players like Nomar, Wood, Prior. You have to go into a make do mode.

 

Hendry made trades in 2003 and 2004 to get us into the playoffs. In 2003 we got their, in 2004 we should have. The players lost their focus.

In 2005 he made the best trade he could make with what was available. Who made a better one this year?

 

I understand the frustration with not yet winning it all. But at some point the players have to play to their ability as a TEAM.

[CubsWin]

I wholeheartedly agree with you, however, I think you could say that about almost everyone on this board, so you're not saying much there.

I'm sorry I must have missed the "No pessimists allowed" memo.

Who is saying you're not allowed here? You keep reading negativity into what I am writing. The quoted comment communicates that I think your opinions in this thread were some of the most pessimistic I've ever read on this board. It said nothing about whether you should be allowed to express them. That was your doing.

 

If what you are saying is that he will simply re-injure himself and not play very much at all the rest of this year then and only then does your "stat that you can't ignore" come into play.

Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. I can only go by what I have seen out of Nomar, which isn't much. The fact that he has played in 65 games in one year, coupled with the fact he is getting older, would leave me to believe that he's not very dependable.

Good, thank you for being honest. Thats all I'm saying. You are seeing only the negative about Nomar. You are not seeing that he has come back from injuries several times in the past and played hundreds of games before getting injured again. Is it accurate to say that Nomar is injury prone? Of course. Is it accurate to say that because he was recently injured that he will likely only be able to play a few games before getting injured again? No. There is no logic or statistical fact that shows that is his pattern. The stats show that he will play the majority of the games the rest of the season.

 

You have proven my point yet again. You see Fox and don't balance it out with Dempster. I see both. You see Wood being terrible and getting injured again and don't balance it out with that he can also be dominant. I see both. I'm not asking you to ignore anything. I think you are already ignoring enough. I'm just pointing out that you seem to ignore the positive possibilities that exist for how the next two months could go for the Cubs. I know that the "boost" may not materialize. But I also know that it may. Thats why they play the games.

Well, I'm not sure what point I proved for you. You choose to look at it positively and I don't. If that's your point, then my whole post proves that point.

Wow, I refuse to believe that you can't read that paragraph and the rest of the post that it came from and figure out what I meant. You are obviously intelligent. Clearly, what I was saying was that the opinions you were expressing were based solely on the negative things that had happened to the Cubs this season and the examples I gave in my response were balanced, including both the successes and failures the Cubs have had this season. But I seriously doubt that I needed to spell that out for you. I think you just didn't want to give me the experience of having made a valid point. I think you chose to play dumb instead of admit that your opinions were based on mainly just the negative. And I don't know why you wouldn't want to admit that. There is no shame in being a pessimist. You are a Cubs fan, after all. You've earned the right. But it still doesn't change the fact that a pessimist's opinion is by definition ignoring the positive factors that exist as well.

 

You forgot the word "only" in between the word "continue" and the word "seeing".

Sounds strangely like another personal comment......

No, I'm just saying, once again, that your arguments weren't balanced out with the positive side. You must think it is a bad thing to be a pessimist and that if someone accuses you of being one that it is some sort of personal attack. I don't think that. I think that Cubs fans have earned the right to be pessimists, if they so choose. And there is nothing wrong with making that choice.

 

All I'm saying is that the opinions you expressed earlier in this thread were not balanced out by any of the positive data thats out there, thats all.

 

And how can someone prove to you what has yet to happen? We are talking about the possible future of the Chicago Cubs over the next two months. How does proving anything come into play in a discussion about what the future might hold?

I can't, I can just go by what I've seen. I haven't seen Nomar play a full year, so until he does I'll assume he won't, and I haven't seen Kerry pitch a full season since '03, so I'll assume he can't until I'm proven otherwise.

There are two problems with what you said about Nomar. One is that he isn't going to be playing a full season this year. We already know that. No one is debating that. What you said was because he was recently injured that it is likely that he will only play a few games before getting injured again. Thats what we are debating. Also, do you only believe things that you have personally seen with your own eyes? You may not have seen him "play a full year" but he has several times as recently as 2003 and 2002. And no one is trying to make you believe that Kerry Wood is going to "pitch a full season" this year. Only that the real possibility exists that he can give the Cubs some help out of the bullpen for the remainder of the season.

 

And, again, I'm not even asking you to change your opinion, only to acknowledge that the opinions you expressed early in this thread were based mainly on the negative.

 

I've been a Cubs fan for almost 30 years. They have made the playoffs 3 times and never been in a World Series in that span. Maybe that explains my negativity in regards to the Cubs.

Sorry, I've been a Cubs fan for longer than 30 years and I'm not a pessimist, so that doesn't help explain your negativity in regards to the Cubs. Its not like having been a Cubs fan for the last 30 years makes someone a pessimist. Its a choice. But I have no problem with anyone making that choice. And, clearly, there are plenty of reasons to do so. I also see plenty of reasons not to do so, but thats just me.

[CubfaninCA]

Cubfan, surely, surely you didn't think DuBois was our hottest prospect. He can't catch the ball and his K rate is frightening.

 

There are no sure fire signings. They can go down with injury (i.e. Drew, Beneitiz, etc) they can underperform (i.e. Beltre, Beltran).

 

The best any GM can do is try to put their team in position to win. Hendry has done that. There are no gaurantees no matter how high the payroll ( see Yankees, Mets ).

 

One can never have ( afford) sufficient backups when there are injuries to key players like Nomar, Wood, Prior. You have to go into a make do mode.

 

Hendry made trades in 2003 and 2004 to get us into the playoffs. In 2003 we got their, in 2004 we should have. The players lost their focus.

In 2005 he made the best trade he could make with what was available. Who made a better one this year?

 

I understand the frustration with not yet winning it all. But at some point the players have to play to their ability as a TEAM.

 

I was just responding to neely. Imo DuBois is a 2 1/2 tool guy. Kinda like the current great hope, Murton. Ok Murton's a little better, but he's getting WAY overhyped.

[CubinNY]

I was just responding to neely. Imo DuBois is a 2 1/2 tool guy. Kinda like the current great hope, Murton. Ok Murton's a little better, but he's getting WAY overhyped.

 

How can you say Murton is overhyped here? This is something I've read this a couple of times now and I don't get it.

 

I don't know anyone who has tried to overhype him. All most people have done is simply point out that he is outperforiming Hollandworth and yet Hollandsworth continues to ge the balk of the playing time.

 

Could you point out any instnaces where Murton is being overhyped

[neely crenshaw]

yes, dubois was our top prospect heading into this season. i believe hendry said "someone has to win rookie of the year, why not dubois?"...hendry did not sign anyone because dubois was going to replace our departed corners.

who could have forseen wood's injury? i don't know anyone who saw him just come back from one arm injury? this isn't a new dilema? remember 1999?

we took a chance on nomar anyone see that coming- here is a list of ss's that changed teams...tejada,arod,renteria,cabbrera,eckstein...

we took a chance on barrett over pudge

closers? the phils got wagner for freakin' brandon duckworth! could we have topped that?

we passed on dotel,benetiz-twice, mesa, kolb,percival,urbina,foulke, and banked on jobo coming off an injury, fox coming off an injury,williamson coming off an injury and hawkins coming off being hawkins...yea, it's a bad year for closers but PLEASE do not tell me hendry knew that everyone would get hurt! except for percival-who leg and hip problems- none of them had been hurt, or had any history of being hurt.

[TheDude]

I don't know if I can jump on the Hendry bandwagon... he hasn't done much for the pen lately.

 

I am a firm believer that bullpen success is, for the most part, contagious. That being said, the Cubs have not been able to put together strong, consistent bullpens in recent years. Hendry has made some rough decisions during that stretch. At the same time, bullpen usage patterns have been eratic, and I don't know how much oversight is given to the bullpen arms by Dusty, Pole, or Rothschild. Bottom line--it needs fixed and I don't have much confidence that this group (including Hendry) knows how to do it.

Not only is bullpen contagious, but it is a crapshoot.

 

Hendry should get credit for signing Hawkins and Remlinger. At the time of the signings, each was an elite setup man the previous couple of years. Hendry doesn't get tagged for their on-field performance.

 

Take a look around the league. There are about 20 guys you wouldn't recognize face-to-face that are having stellar bullpen years. It's a crapshoot.

[UBlink]

I think it could have been argued that Dubois was the position prospect most likely to make a major league impact in 2005, but that isn't the same as saying he was the top prospect in the system. While some saw him as a can't miss, others thought he had proven all he could at the minor league level and it was time to give him his chance. We can argue about what kind of chance he actually got.

 

One of the things an organization needs to demonstrate is that people working their way up the ladder get opportunities to advance. Bruce's comments about Sisco indicate that at least some people get this point. For the guys working their way up through the minors there has to be some light at the end of the tunnel, and some sense that they will be treated fairly by the organization along the way.

[katway]

yes, dubois was our top prospect heading into this season. i believe hendry said "someone has to win rookie of the year, why not dubois?"...hendry did not sign anyone because dubois was going to replace our departed corners.

who could have forseen wood's injury? i don't know anyone who saw him just come back from one arm injury? this isn't a new dilema? remember 1999?

we took a chance on nomar anyone see that coming- here is a list of ss's that changed teams...tejada,arod,renteria,cabbrera,eckstein...

we took a chance on barrett over pudge

closers? the phils got wagner for freakin' brandon duckworth! could we have topped that?

we passed on dotel,benetiz-twice, mesa, kolb,percival,urbina,foulke, and banked on jobo coming off an injury, fox coming off an injury,williamson coming off an injury and hawkins coming off being hawkins...yea, it's a bad year for closers but PLEASE do not tell me hendry knew that everyone would get hurt! except for percival-who leg and hip problems- none of them had been hurt, or had any history of being hurt.

 

With respect to left field -- Hendry will always talk up his own players to make them more valuable... so no surprise he would talk up Dubois before the season. In any event, I really don't recall many signable people for left within the Cubs budget constraints. Part of the equation is the budget and it was a position we were trying to save from having to spend on. Sosa's contract (not Hendry's doing) kind of put us in this bind with respect to the outfield.

 

With respect to Pudge -- If I were an NL manager, I wouldn't give Pudge a long-term deal either. He has had some health problems and is an aging catcher with a lot of games under his belt. The AL has the DH, which is tailor made for guys like Pudge to give them a little rest, keep them healthy, and get their bats in the lineup. Pudge also cost a lot more than Barrett. Economically, Barrett has been a good deal.

 

With respect to Nomar -- Nomar was a risk, everyone knew about certain injuries, but the groin pull was completely unanticipated. Nomar tore up spring training, so it would have been nice to see his production this year. In addition, that deal doesn't take place without Murton. Essentially, the Nomar deal netted 2 starters for low level prospects.

 

with respect to Wagner -- Houston's trade of Wagner was about cost cutting; so they only wanted cheap decently talented prospects / young players in return. Houston would not have wanted Wagner in a Cubs uniform and would have required a premium to trade him in the same division.

 

What about Aram and D. Lee -- As long as were mentioning some players are worth more than a team received. I think it's pretty clear Aram and D. Lee were worth more than what we paid to get them.

 

With respect to closers -- Hendry did not know closers would get hurt; but, what he has said is that the older closers tend to fade in August through October. That's why he really didn't want a Benetiz or Mesa. He wanted Dotel, but the price was a little too high. Hendry wanted Demster in the closer role from the start, Dusty fouled that up by putting him in the rotation and putting LaTroy back into a role he was clearly uncomfortable playing. It would have been nice to improve the relief pitching, but their really weren't many set up men and quality relievers available this last offseason, so the only real good move he was left with was to through darts and see if any of them stick. In retrospect, Andy sisco has developed well, but he had poor character and work habits, it was the fact that the Cubs left him available in the rule 5 draft that finally made him realize he wasn't the greatest thing since sliced bread.

 

As I see it, the only real glaring mistake (a mistake without the benefit of hindsight) I think Hendry made was signing Maddux knowing that it would foreshadow letting Clement go because the budget wouldn't allow us to keep them both.

Edited August 2, 2005 by katway

[neely crenshaw]

i still like the hawkins signings. remingler at the time was good also...the problem is hendry made a nice signing for set up men but left the team no choice but to use them out of that role because he never-EVER addressed closer. he(hendry) set up hawkins to fail. he was the only one to even do that role and who else was baker going to use? it would make no sense to keep the set up men in their role to turn the 9th over to someone who couldn't get the job done. hawkins was the best candidate(and only) simply because hendry did not do his job!

[frostwyrm]

Overall Hendry is good but sometimes he makes obvious mistakes. Both of Ronny Cedeno's callups this year were tragically stupid and a lot of us here knew they would be. Promising Hollandsworth more playing time was really dumb too.

[CubsWin]

Overall Hendry is good but sometimes he makes obvious mistakes. Both of Ronny Cedeno's callups this year were tragically stupid and a lot of us here knew they would be. Promising Hollandsworth more playing time was really dumb too.

I can't remember if Hendry promised Hollandsworth more playing time or if that was Dusty or if what he was promised was an honest shot at earning the starting job in LF. Does anybody have a link to a quote or something better than my shotty memory?

 

And I think Cedeno's call-ups were out of necessity. Who else on the roster was going to play SS if Neifi got injured? Would you have preferred Hendry to keep Enrique Wilson around? Granted, it was far from the ideal situation for Ronny's development, I'm sure we would all agree that the best thing for Ronny would have been to play everyday no matter where he was, but at least he got to "watch and learn from the veterans". :wink:

 

Seriously, though, there has to be some benefit from being in the bigs as a 22-year-old. Maybe he'll be a bit more relaxed and able to perform at his highest level when/if he actually does see the field because he feels like he belongs there.

[CubsWin]

i still like the hawkins signings. remingler at the time was good also...the problem is hendry made a nice signing for set up men but left the team no choice but to use them out of that role because he never-EVER addressed closer. he(hendry) set up hawkins to fail. he was the only one to even do that role and who else was baker going to use? it would make no sense to keep the set up men in their role to turn the 9th over to someone who couldn't get the job done. hawkins was the best candidate(and only) simply because hendry did not do his job!

I think Hendry did his job. He provided JoBo in '04 and Dempster in '05. JoBo got injured and Dempster was mistakenly placed in the rotation. True, once JoBo went down, Hendry was unable to bring in another closer, but its not like they grow on trees. If a team has an effective closer, why would they trade him?

[Larry Horse]

I wholeheartedly agree with you, however, I think you could say that about almost everyone on this board, so you're not saying much there.

I'm sorry I must have missed the "No pessimists allowed" memo.

Who is saying you're not allowed here? You keep reading negativity into what I am writing. The quoted comment communicates that I think your opinions in this thread were some of the most pessimistic I've ever read on this board. It said nothing about whether you should be allowed to express them. That was your doing.

 

If what you are saying is that he will simply re-injure himself and not play very much at all the rest of this year then and only then does your "stat that you can't ignore" come into play.

Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. I can only go by what I have seen out of Nomar, which isn't much. The fact that he has played in 65 games in one year, coupled with the fact he is getting older, would leave me to believe that he's not very dependable.

Good, thank you for being honest. Thats all I'm saying. You are seeing only the negative about Nomar. You are not seeing that he has come back from injuries several times in the past and played hundreds of games before getting injured again. Is it accurate to say that Nomar is injury prone? Of course. Is it accurate to say that because he was recently injured that he will likely only be able to play a few games before getting injured again? No. There is no logic or statistical fact that shows that is his pattern. The stats show that he will play the majority of the games the rest of the season.

 

You have proven my point yet again. You see Fox and don't balance it out with Dempster. I see both. You see Wood being terrible and getting injured again and don't balance it out with that he can also be dominant. I see both. I'm not asking you to ignore anything. I think you are already ignoring enough. I'm just pointing out that you seem to ignore the positive possibilities that exist for how the next two months could go for the Cubs. I know that the "boost" may not materialize. But I also know that it may. Thats why they play the games.

Well, I'm not sure what point I proved for you. You choose to look at it positively and I don't. If that's your point, then my whole post proves that point.

Wow, I refuse to believe that you can't read that paragraph and the rest of the post that it came from and figure out what I meant. You are obviously intelligent. Clearly, what I was saying was that the opinions you were expressing were based solely on the negative things that had happened to the Cubs this season and the examples I gave in my response were balanced, including both the successes and failures the Cubs have had this season. But I seriously doubt that I needed to spell that out for you. I think you just didn't want to give me the experience of having made a valid point. I think you chose to play dumb instead of admit that your opinions were based on mainly just the negative. And I don't know why you wouldn't want to admit that. There is no shame in being a pessimist. You are a Cubs fan, after all. You've earned the right. But it still doesn't change the fact that a pessimist's opinion is by definition ignoring the positive factors that exist as well.

 

You forgot the word "only" in between the word "continue" and the word "seeing".

Sounds strangely like another personal comment......

No, I'm just saying, once again, that your arguments weren't balanced out with the positive side. You must think it is a bad thing to be a pessimist and that if someone accuses you of being one that it is some sort of personal attack. I don't think that. I think that Cubs fans have earned the right to be pessimists, if they so choose. And there is nothing wrong with making that choice.

 

All I'm saying is that the opinions you expressed earlier in this thread were not balanced out by any of the positive data thats out there, thats all.

 

And how can someone prove to you what has yet to happen? We are talking about the possible future of the Chicago Cubs over the next two months. How does proving anything come into play in a discussion about what the future might hold?

I can't, I can just go by what I've seen. I haven't seen Nomar play a full year, so until he does I'll assume he won't, and I haven't seen Kerry pitch a full season since '03, so I'll assume he can't until I'm proven otherwise.

There are two problems with what you said about Nomar. One is that he isn't going to be playing a full season this year. We already know that. No one is debating that. What you said was because he was recently injured that it is likely that he will only play a few games before getting injured again. Thats what we are debating. Also, do you only believe things that you have personally seen with your own eyes? You may not have seen him "play a full year" but he has several times as recently as 2003 and 2002. And no one is trying to make you believe that Kerry Wood is going to "pitch a full season" this year. Only that the real possibility exists that he can give the Cubs some help out of the bullpen for the remainder of the season.

 

And, again, I'm not even asking you to change your opinion, only to acknowledge that the opinions you expressed early in this thread were based mainly on the negative.

 

I've been a Cubs fan for almost 30 years. They have made the playoffs 3 times and never been in a World Series in that span. Maybe that explains my negativity in regards to the Cubs.

Sorry, I've been a Cubs fan for longer than 30 years and I'm not a pessimist, so that doesn't help explain your negativity in regards to the Cubs. Its not like having been a Cubs fan for the last 30 years makes someone a pessimist. Its a choice. But I have no problem with anyone making that choice. And, clearly, there are plenty of reasons to do so. I also see plenty of reasons not to do so, but thats just me.

 

Nice post, Win. We'll agree to disagree, and I would LOVE to eat some crow or humble pie or whatever else is served up.