Last Bears game for 9 months @ Vikings

[UK]

I don't see it with this team, the chance to improve unless 5-11 constitutes success and bringing back Cutler/Alshon might get them there.

 

I'm for tanking next year, getting rid of Fox and hopefully building upon two successful drafts leading to a 3rd one with a high pick.

 

I'm not sold on Pace, fwiw. Unlike Fox, he is worth keeping around.

[jersey cubs fan]

if the Bears don't improve in 2017 Pace and Fox are gone.

 

There's no way they can justify bringing him back for a 4th year. 3 years is more than enough time to put your stamp on a team in the NFL.

[WrigleyField 22]

Pace is definitely in an interesting spot to evaluate. He has consciously gotten rid of some good players to accomplish specific goals (get younger, clean up the locker room). So in some regards, he dug the hole for himself, and if that was the plan all along, there is no reason to shift course due to the record. Still, its hard to like so many individual moves and yet see the overall record degrade.

 

Its kind of wait and see approach while still being really eager/optimistic to see what comes next.

[raw]

You guys need to let go of the Cutler fantasy. He's gone. He's not good enough. He never has been. He won the same number of games as the other 2 QBs, and didn't really play as well as either. Little cap hit for cutting him. There's literally 0 reason Cutler will or should be back. Give it up.

[FlyTheW]

You guys need to let go of the Cutler fantasy. He's gone. He's not good enough. He never has been. He won the same number of games as the other 2 QBs, and didn't really play as well as either. Little cap hit for cutting him. There's literally 0 reason Cutler will or should be back. Give it up.

He's better than any other option save Tyrod Taylor and it might be better to try and let him build up value and trade him instead of cutting him. But it won't happen. But if fans didn't exist, that's what I would do

[David]

You guys need to let go of the Cutler fantasy. He's gone. He's not good enough. He never has been. He won the same number of games as the other 2 QBs, and didn't really play as well as either. Little cap hit for cutting him. There's literally 0 reason Cutler will or should be back. Give it up.

 

I'm not sure what fantasy you think is being talked about here. If you think there's a better chance of winning games next year with either Hoyer, Barkley, or whatever they grab off the QB scrap heap than with him, then go you. I think you're very wrong. They're not gonna do better than him for his salary for one year.

 

Also, not good enough for what?

 

And little cap hit for cutting him? So what? What does that benefit anybody beyond ownership?

[raw]

There's a major problem with keeping Fox, IMO.

 

The Bears have the #3 pick, a QB that hasn't worked out and a depth chart of FAs at the position. They need to find their QB of the future. The problem with QBs of the future is that they usually aren't very good in the current. If they aren't good in the current, Fox probably gets fired. If Fox gets fired, his offensive coordinator gets fired. If his OC gets fired, your QB of the future has his 2nd offensive scheme in 2 years (3rd in 3 going back to college assuming it's a rookie).

 

So, I think there are 2 solutions here.

 

1. Keep Fox in 2017 and 2018. Hope to God he can woo McCoy to be his OC next year. That way you have offensive stability for your new QB.

 

2. Go with the status quo, team is either really good or really bad. If bad (most likely), Fox goes. You get a new HC, OC and QB all at the same time. Of course, Pace is at risk if things are too bad.

 

One interesting thing is that Fox has never really had a developing QB. I know he's a defensive guy, but he had Tebow for what 1 year? then got Manning. He wants to win. Pace wants to win. I don't know that either of them wants a rookie QB. That scares me that they'll go after Kirk Cousins (for 20+Mil) or trade for Jimmy Garoppolo (probably would need to trade their high 2nd). Neither is a desirable option, IMO.

[raw]

You guys need to let go of the Cutler fantasy. He's gone. He's not good enough. He never has been. He won the same number of games as the other 2 QBs, and didn't really play as well as either. Little cap hit for cutting him. There's literally 0 reason Cutler will or should be back. Give it up.

 

I'm not sure what fantasy you think is being talked about here. If you think there's a better chance of winning games next year with either Hoyer, Barkley, or whatever they grab off the QB scrap heap than with him, then go you. I think you're very wrong. They're not gonna do better than him for his salary for one year.

 

Also, not good enough for what?

 

And little cap hit for cutting him? So what? What does that benefit anybody beyond ownership?

 

I'm talking about Cutler and nothing else. Which is why I mentioned Cutler by name and nobody else.

[David]

You guys need to let go of the Cutler fantasy. He's gone. He's not good enough. He never has been. He won the same number of games as the other 2 QBs, and didn't really play as well as either. Little cap hit for cutting him. There's literally 0 reason Cutler will or should be back. Give it up.

 

I'm not sure what fantasy you think is being talked about here. If you think there's a better chance of winning games next year with either Hoyer, Barkley, or whatever they grab off the QB scrap heap than with him, then go you. I think you're very wrong. They're not gonna do better than him for his salary for one year.

 

Also, not good enough for what?

 

And little cap hit for cutting him? So what? What does that benefit anybody beyond ownership?

 

I'm talking about Cutler and nothing else. Which is why I mentioned Cutler by name and nobody else.

 

The people you can or would play instead of him are not relevant?

 

(And, OK, you didn't mention anyone else by name but you literally did reference two other players)

[WrigleyField 22]

And not in anyway to be intended as a compliment to Cutler, but he was not outplayed by Matt horsefeathering Barkley.

[WrigleyField 22]

Reason #1 to bring Cutler back. He is the only QB under contract.

[KingCubsFan]

There's a major problem with keeping Fox, IMO.

 

The Bears have the #3 pick, a QB that hasn't worked out and a depth chart of FAs at the position. They need to find their QB of the future. The problem with QBs of the future is that they usually aren't very good in the current. If they aren't good in the current, Fox probably gets fired. If Fox gets fired, his offensive coordinator gets fired. If his OC gets fired, your QB of the future has his 2nd offensive scheme in 2 years (3rd in 3 going back to college assuming it's a rookie).

 

So, I think there are 2 solutions here.

 

1. Keep Fox in 2017 and 2018. Hope to God he can woo McCoy to be his OC next year. That way you have offensive stability for your new QB.

 

2. Go with the status quo, team is either really good or really bad. If bad (most likely), Fox goes. You get a new HC, OC and QB all at the same time. Of course, Pace is at risk if things are too bad.

 

One interesting thing is that Fox has never really had a developing QB. I know he's a defensive guy, but he had Tebow for what 1 year? then got Manning. He wants to win. Pace wants to win. I don't know that either of them wants a rookie QB. That scares me that they'll go after Kirk Cousins (for 20+Mil) or trade for Jimmy Garoppolo (probably would need to trade their high 2nd). Neither is a desirable option, IMO.

What's wrong with Cousins? He'd probably be the best QB this team has ever had. Given that the Bears have never drafted or developed a good NFL QB, and this current coaching staff doesn't inspire much confidence in that regard either, I'm not sure why they should be deadset on overdrafting a prospect or trading valuable currency for an unknown like Garoppolo. If Cousins is actually available, they should go after him.

[WrigleyField 22]

To expand on the last few points.

 

Three of the internal options have a combined 7 starts, and thrown less than 300 NFL passes. One has ended the last two seasons on IR. The other went from looking like a possible backup to questioning if he even belongs on a roster. The third made such a small impression, his HC apparently didnt know he had him in training camp for the past two seasons. And again, none are currently under contract, though, thats mainly formality as any could probably be brought back will little guaranteed money.

 

That leaves us with Hoyer, external FA, and the draft.

 

External FA or trade candidates are likely to carry a cap cost or acquisition cost you apparently agree is not worthwhile. If someone is available at a reasonable cost I have no idea why they'd willingly choose the Bears over a clear ready made situation in Denver, so the Bears could probably get the second best option at best.

 

Of the college guys, while early in the evaluation process, none look prepared to start day 1. And the Bears could still have to settle for their second choice if they were set on drafting a QB. And you've established how important it is for you that the Bears to draft their #1 target.

 

So back to Hoyer. If we accept Jay's 2016 as the new norm, you still have to accept Hoyer's 2016 as his new norm (where he obliterated his previous best completion rate, int rate, and sack rate), for him to be a clear better option. If you take career average Hoyer, its basically a dead heat with 2016 Cutler, again factoring in no improvement from 2016 Jay. Still theres probably a scenario where thats an "okay" outcome, but theres also literally zero reason to rush into the conculsion where Jay is gone because his contract is so flexible. Hoyer probably would take guaranteed money, possibly past 2017. He also could also try to negotiate himself into a better situation if the Bears don't close a deal before their exclusive negotiating period.

 

Which is all not to say Jay should definitely be back, or even be greater than 50% chance at being back. But the Bears position doesn't really allow them to he firm inany one QB outcome unless its to conceed 2017 as another lost season.

[FlyTheW]

There's a major problem with keeping Fox, IMO.

 

The Bears have the #3 pick, a QB that hasn't worked out and a depth chart of FAs at the position. They need to find their QB of the future. The problem with QBs of the future is that they usually aren't very good in the current. If they aren't good in the current, Fox probably gets fired. If Fox gets fired, his offensive coordinator gets fired. If his OC gets fired, your QB of the future has his 2nd offensive scheme in 2 years (3rd in 3 going back to college assuming it's a rookie).

 

So, I think there are 2 solutions here.

 

1. Keep Fox in 2017 and 2018. Hope to God he can woo McCoy to be his OC next year. That way you have offensive stability for your new QB.

 

2. Go with the status quo, team is either really good or really bad. If bad (most likely), Fox goes. You get a new HC, OC and QB all at the same time. Of course, Pace is at risk if things are too bad.

 

One interesting thing is that Fox has never really had a developing QB. I know he's a defensive guy, but he had Tebow for what 1 year? then got Manning. He wants to win. Pace wants to win. I don't know that either of them wants a rookie QB. That scares me that they'll go after Kirk Cousins (for 20+Mil) or trade for Jimmy Garoppolo (probably would need to trade their high 2nd). Neither is a desirable option, IMO.

What's wrong with Cousins? He'd probably be the best QB this team has ever had. Given that the Bears have never drafted or developed a good NFL QB, and this current coaching staff doesn't inspire much confidence in that regard either, I'm not sure why they should be deadset on overdrafting a prospect or trading valuable currency for an unknown like Garoppolo. If Cousins is actually available, they should go after him.

Cousins is an average QB looking for a ton of money. The Bears wouldn't be a .500 team adding Cousins and his bloated salary next year and it would hamper them from making moves needed to improve in the coming years. And if the Redskins let Cousins walk anyways, you know there's a problem there.

[WrigleyField 22]

There's a major problem with keeping Fox, IMO.

 

The Bears have the #3 pick, a QB that hasn't worked out and a depth chart of FAs at the position. They need to find their QB of the future. The problem with QBs of the future is that they usually aren't very good in the current. If they aren't good in the current, Fox probably gets fired. If Fox gets fired, his offensive coordinator gets fired. If his OC gets fired, your QB of the future has his 2nd offensive scheme in 2 years (3rd in 3 going back to college assuming it's a rookie).

 

So, I think there are 2 solutions here.

 

1. Keep Fox in 2017 and 2018. Hope to God he can woo McCoy to be his OC next year. That way you have offensive stability for your new QB.

 

2. Go with the status quo, team is either really good or really bad. If bad (most likely), Fox goes. You get a new HC, OC and QB all at the same time. Of course, Pace is at risk if things are too bad.

 

One interesting thing is that Fox has never really had a developing QB. I know he's a defensive guy, but he had Tebow for what 1 year? then got Manning. He wants to win. Pace wants to win. I don't know that either of them wants a rookie QB. That scares me that they'll go after Kirk Cousins (for 20+Mil) or trade for Jimmy Garoppolo (probably would need to trade their high 2nd). Neither is a desirable option, IMO.

What's wrong with Cousins? He'd probably be the best QB this team has ever had. Given that the Bears have never drafted or developed a good NFL QB, and this current coaching staff doesn't inspire much confidence in that regard either, I'm not sure why they should be deadset on overdrafting a prospect or trading valuable currency for an unknown like Garoppolo. If Cousins is actually available, they should go after him.

For Cousins, a lot would have to do with contract structure for me. If Pace keeps hitting on draft picks, we'll eventually need cap space again to retain good players and we want his deal to be as friendly as possible in 2019 and beyond. If Redskins make any decent effort to retain him, theres no chance he leaves for our situation though. But of he hits the open market he could become the top paid player in the game (for a year at least)

[David]

Hub said on the radio today that as he understands it, Pace was set on hiring Dan Quinn for HC and Accorsi and ownership convinced him that Fox was a good idea to go with a veteran HC since he's so young. Not to say that he was against hit, but he had another hire in mind.

[davell]

If Cutler is back, its because we had no better options that make sense for 2017. As much as I want Taylor, there's a real chance he's going to be expensive enough that he's not considered a stopgap. Cousins is a non realistic option. Washington will franchise him again, at worst. If they attempt to trade him, it puts us back in the same spot as when we traded for Jay. Except with arguably less talent surrounding him. So, that's out.

 

I don't even SEE another option for 2017. None of the guys in the draft are NFL-ready. They're better off sitting. Its a matter of projection with them anyway. Is Kizer hands down the best of this group in 5 years? Hell no.

 

I've got a sneaking suspicion that NONE of this group goes in the top 10. Which helps us out, because I feel confident that we'll have options at 36.....Who? No idea, but outside of Kizer, I could see any single one of them dropping to that spot. Trubisky, Watson, Webb, Mahomes......And its beauty in the eye of the beholder, because I seriously doubt there's going to be a consensus.

 

I hope Allen turns pro too, partially because it just makes it that much likelier one more of that listed group is available to us at 36.

 

If we wait and take a Kayya type in the 4th? I'm OK with that too. Because if we don't see the improvement out of him, it doesn't preclude us from using our 1st on what appears to be a far superior group of QB's in 2018.

[Guest]

Zaidman said that he thinks that Fangio wants a couple of man cover corners so he can use his pashrushers uniquely. He obviously doesn't have that yet. But Humphrey and King could solve that problem quickly.

[Guest]

And also he thinks the Bears like their offensive tackles.

 

What about a trade with the Jets? Trade down to 6 for number 37, take Humphrey/Lattimore at 6, then King and Watson at 36/37.

[Splendid Splinter]

Zaidman said that he thinks that Fangio wants a couple of man cover corners so he can use his pashrushers uniquely. He obviously doesn't have that yet. But Humphrey and King could solve that problem quickly.

 

I can see that. Drafting Hooker would go a long way as he can be a playmaker/cover S. Adams would work too, although LSU used him more like a roaming SS/dime LB this season IIRC.

 

There's always offering Berry the biggest contract for a S option too. I think Pace would rather go for a Tony Jefferson type in FA and let Amos/etc battle it out for the other starting spot.

 

Is there any good man cover CB in FA this offseason?

[davell]

And also he thinks the Bears like their offensive tackles.

 

What about a trade with the Jets? Trade down to 6 for number 37, take Humphrey/Lattimore at 6, then King and Watson at 36/37.

 

I love the trade down. Hate the idea they like Leno and Massie. I'll raise that idea though.....I'd trade down again. Move to 11-12 and pick up ANOTHER 2nd.

 

I'm not sure I'd like TWO CB rookies. But, at 11 or 12, you're still able to address the defensive backfield. Non zero chance that Humphrey or Lattimore falls there. Maybe Wilson falls down that far? If ALL of them are gone? You're certainly able to take one of Hooker, Adams, or Peppers. And if the entirety of the draft becomes DB's, then a guy like Barnett is still there and a great fit.

 

Watson, Trubisky, Mahomes, or whoever......We'll hopefully like a QB enough to pull the trigger. If so, I'd be excited at that point. King is excellent value and I would suspect the extra mid second in my scenario could go towards a WR, or more DB help, if we take something other than that at 11 or 12......

[davell]

Zaidman said that he thinks that Fangio wants a couple of man cover corners so he can use his pashrushers uniquely. He obviously doesn't have that yet. But Humphrey and King could solve that problem quickly.

 

I can see that. Drafting Hooker would go a long way as he can be a playmaker/cover S. Adams would work too, although LSU used him more like a roaming SS/dime LB this season IIRC.

 

There's always offering Berry the biggest contract for a S option too. I think Pace would rather go for a Tony Jefferson type in FA and let Amos/etc battle it out for the other starting spot.

 

Is there any good man cover CB in FA this offseason?

 

Maybe Gilmore? Trumaine Johnson?

[Guest]

There is also a slim hope that Fuller realizes his potential... Edited January 4, 2017 by Stannis

[Guest]

Zaidman said that he thinks that Fangio wants a couple of man cover corners so he can use his pashrushers uniquely. He obviously doesn't have that yet. But Humphrey and King could solve that problem quickly.

 

I can see that. Drafting Hooker would go a long way as he can be a playmaker/cover S. Adams would work too, although LSU used him more like a roaming SS/dime LB this season IIRC.

 

There's always offering Berry the biggest contract for a S option too. I think Pace would rather go for a Tony Jefferson type in FA and let Amos/etc battle it out for the other starting spot.

 

Is there any good man cover CB in FA this offseason?

 

Maybe Gilmore? Trumaine Johnson?

 

They definitely should get involved with a big name FA in the secondary, be it Berry or Johnson. One of those guys could really help. I'd prefer the CB, understanding that it would help Fangio dial up exotic and effective blitzes.

[davell]

There is also a slim hope that Fuller realizes his potential...

 

At this point, I'm fully expecting to see him dealt for a late rounder, whether we agree or not.