Cubs sign Shane Victorino to minor league deal

[minnesotacubsfan]

Yea, the Cubs look like the Blackhawks 6 years ago: come here, play a role in helping us develop, and win in the grandest way possible. Some say the Blackhawks winning the Cup in 2010 changed hockey in this country, imagine if the Cubs win and what that does for MLB with the NFL fighting concussion issues

[biittner77]

Yea, the Cubs look like the Blackhawks 6 years ago: come here, play a role in helping us develop, and win in the grandest way possible. Some say the Blackhawks winning the Cup in 2010 changed hockey in this country, imagine if the Cubs win and what that does for MLB with the NFL fighting concussion issues

 

I don't see baseball supplanting the popularity of the NFL any time soon. Most people don't care about football players getting concussions. At least not enough to stop watching football.

Edited March 9, 2016 by biittner77

[Thusly Boned]

Yea, the Cubs look like the Blackhawks 6 years ago: come here, play a role in helping us develop, and win in the grandest way possible. Some say the Blackhawks winning the Cup in 2010 changed hockey in this country, imagine if the Cubs win and what that does for MLB with the NFL fighting concussion issues

 

I don't baseball supplanting the popularity of the NFL any time soon. Most people don't care about football players getting concussions. At least not enough to stop watching football.

 

Probably not in the very near term, but if the NFL doesn't do something substantive about player safety, it's going to bite them hard before long. It's becoming a more visible issue, players are expressing regrets over choosing the wrong sport, and we may well see the tide turn when it comes to athletes choosing football before baseball. There's a long way to go before we can talk about MLB supplanting the NFL, but it's entirely possible we've reached the zenith of football's popularity.

[jersey cubs fan]

Yea, the Cubs look like the Blackhawks 6 years ago: come here, play a role in helping us develop, and win in the grandest way possible. Some say the Blackhawks winning the Cup in 2010 changed hockey in this country, imagine if the Cubs win and what that does for MLB with the NFL fighting concussion issues

 

I don't baseball supplanting the popularity of the NFL any time soon. Most people don't care about football players getting concussions. At least not enough to stop watching football.

 

Probably not in the very near term, but if the NFL doesn't do something substantive about player safety, it's going to bite them hard before long. It's becoming a more visible issue, players are expressing regrets over choosing the wrong sport, and we may well see the tide turn when it comes to athletes choosing football before baseball. There's a long way to go before we can talk about MLB supplanting the NFL, but it's entirely possible we've reached the zenith of football's popularity.

I think the concern about safety is a facade more than anything. Many of the same people who whine about the NFL also actively support UFC type events which are far worse for your health. Baseball is still slow and lacks flash. When I was a kid, long before the concussion issue, there were plenty of parents that didn't allow talented kids to play football but it just opened up spots for other kids. The bigger threat to participation may be a growing Tea Party hacking apart public school budgets and making it impossible for high schools to field teams.

[Thusly Boned]

I'm sure some of the concern is pretense, but it's more of a visible issue than ever. I think we're going start hearing more of what Antwaan Randle-El said about wishing he had chosen baseball (from those who had the choice). Making it from the draft to MLB is trickier, but in addition to fewer serious long term health effects, career longevity and earning potential in baseball is so much better than in the NFL. Neither sport is particularly accessible financially, though as we see budgets cut, it'll probably hurt football more.

 

I don't there is much danger of fans abandoning football out of some sort of moral opposition, as many people will always love their gladiatorial spectacle. I think the more immediate issue is talent drain as parents and advisors start steering kids away. Also, I'm not sure what effect dialing down the violence of the NFL will/would have long term, but I think changes are coming. Football isn't in any danger of falling off precipitously, but there are looming issues.

[ConstableRabbit]

For me the NFL has too many injuries/suspensions. Just annoying/boring to me.

[jersey cubs fan]

For me the NFL has too many injuries/suspensions. Just annoying/boring to me.

 

[/another pitcher goes under the knife]

[/another team gets offended by an unwritten rule being broken]

[ConstableRabbit]

For me the NFL has too many injuries/suspensions. Just annoying/boring to me.

 

[/another pitcher goes under the knife]

[/another team gets offended by an unwritten rule being broken]

Unwritten rules being broken is fun to me and doesn't actually result in players not playing for substantial portions of the season.

 

And yeah, pitchers get hurt. At least it's the whole season though and not a constant WILL HE PLAY I'M HEARING MAYBE before every game. Snooze.

[Thusly Boned]

Football is fun to watch in its violent, short attention span requiring, lowest common denominator way, and part of me enjoys that. And those traits have made it successful, and will ensure it remains popular. But it's not nearly as compelling to me as baseball is. A decent way to pass most of the baseball offseason, though.

[jersey cubs fan]

Football is fun to watch in its violent, short attention span requiring, lowest common denominator way, and part of me enjoys that. And those traits have made it successful, and will ensure it remains popular. But it's not nearly as compelling to me as baseball is. A decent way to pass most of the baseball offseason, though.

I think the lowest common denominator comment is way off. Consider that in a sport like football, where coaching and strategy actually matter, as opposed to baseball, where it's all about getting the best players and having them play. Baseball writers have always pretended it was more of a thinking man's game when it never was. It's just a very simple game and that's what makes it so great.

[David]

Football is fun to watch in its violent, short attention span requiring, lowest common denominator way, and part of me enjoys that. And those traits have made it successful, and will ensure it remains popular. But it's not nearly as compelling to me as baseball is. A decent way to pass most of the baseball offseason, though.

I think the lowest common denominator comment is way off. Consider that in a sport like football, where coaching and strategy actually matter, as opposed to baseball, where it's all about getting the best players and having them play. Baseball writers have always pretended it was more of a thinking man's game when it never was. It's just a very simple game and that's what makes it so great.

 

i like baseball more than i like football when all things are equal (i.e. when my teams in them are equally good), and i completely agree with this.

 

football takes so much more thinking and strategy than baseball that it's not even funny. it's not just a bunch of cavemen being violent.

[Sammy Sofa]

People often mistake a slower game with being smarter, for whatever reasons. Among the big 4 American sports, baseball easily has the least strategy and coaching involved.

[David]

People often mistake a slower game with being smarter, for whatever reasons. Among the big 4 American sports, baseball easily has the least strategy and coaching involved.

 

it's also the most easily analyzed because it's so simple, which is kinda why smarter, more analytically minded fans love it, even though that's kind of oxymoronic

[Thusly Boned]

Football is fun to watch in its violent, short attention span requiring, lowest common denominator way, and part of me enjoys that. And those traits have made it successful, and will ensure it remains popular. But it's not nearly as compelling to me as baseball is. A decent way to pass most of the baseball offseason, though.

I think the lowest common denominator comment is way off. Consider that in a sport like football, where coaching and strategy actually matter, as opposed to baseball, where it's all about getting the best players and having them play. Baseball writers have always pretended it was more of a thinking man's game when it never was. It's just a very simple game and that's what makes it so great.

 

Oh, there's next to no actual team strategy in baseball, which is why I find the arguments against the universal DH to be feeble. My LCD comment was more in reference to being violent and requiring next to no attention span on the part of the fan. It requires very little of the viewer in order to enjoy it (though a knowledgeable fan can obviously derive more from it).

 

Though it does have strategy, it's the violence, speed, and pace of the game that is the foundation of its appeal, imo. I would confidently wager that a much larger portion of football fans are knuckle draggers than is true of baseball fans.

 

It's all subjective taste, but the way the pace of baseball fosters anticipation, the strategy (not team strategy, but mano a mano, pitcher/battery versus batter), and sheer skill and focus required of the player all make baseball more compelling to me.

[Sammy Sofa]

Personally, I'd say I know a LOT more football fans who seem to understand a lot more basic intricacies of the game, even if they are complete meatballs, than baseball fans who kick and scream and dig their heels in over trying to understand even simple, basic sabermetrics.

[Thusly Boned]

People often mistake a slower game with being smarter, for whatever reasons. Among the big 4 American sports, baseball easily has the least strategy and coaching involved.

 

it's also the most easily analyzed because it's so simple, which is kinda why smarter, more analytically minded fans love it, even though that's kind of oxymoronic

 

Analytically minded people (stat heads) love it because in baseball, individual performance is easily quantifiable (relatively). There aren't as many variables involved, and team performance can be reduced to an equation much more easily.

[David]

yeah, that's pretty much what i said. :dontknow:

[Thusly Boned]

Personally, I'd say I know a LOT more football fans who seem to understand a lot more basic intricacies of the game, even if they are complete meatballs, than baseball fans who kick and scream and dig their heels in over trying to understand even simple, basic sabermetrics.

 

My experience has been the opposite, to say the least.

[Sammy Sofa]

Your mileage may vary; to me, it seems like the average football fan can rattle of different plays and formations and the like before going on a rant about rings and being a general on the field and acting like a thug and all that nonsense. With baseball, it feels like a good chunk of fans will look at you baffled by something as basic as a defensive shift or OPS.

[David]

Personally, I'd say I know a LOT more football fans who seem to understand a lot more basic intricacies of the game, even if they are complete meatballs, than baseball fans who kick and scream and dig their heels in over trying to understand even simple, basic sabermetrics.

 

that's probably got something to do with the steeper learning curve to just have a basic understanding of football

 

that and the fact that a lot of conventional wisdom in football is much newer than the dumb old baseball stuff...there's less traditionalism and nonsense like that too to keep the old ways of thinking strong.

[David]

Your mileage may vary; to me, it seems like the average football fan can rattle of different plays and formations and the like before going on a rant about rings and being a general on the field and acting like a thug and all that nonsense. With baseball, it feels like a good chunk of fans will look at you baffled by something as basic as a defensive shift or OPS.

 

the madden effect

[Thusly Boned]

Your mileage may vary; to me, it seems like the average football fan can rattle of different plays and formations and the like before going on a rant about rings and being a general on the field and acting like a thug and all that nonsense. With baseball, it feels like a good chunk of fans will look at you baffled by something as basic as a defensive shift or OPS.

 

Yeah, it's anecdotal, obviously. Most of the people I talk sports with are really into baseball, are well versed in statistics, and obviously that has a lot to do with it. But knowing the basic formations is pretty superficial knowledge, and as you say, beyond that, it usually devolves into ranting about intangibles, leadership, toughness and "knowing how to win". And maybe some quasi-knowledgeable bitching about rules/penalties.

 

At football viewing parties I've been to, there's typically a small handful of knowledgeable fans, and a much larger contingent who root hard, but who need the few to explain anything not completely obvious to them.

[David]

Your mileage may vary; to me, it seems like the average football fan can rattle of different plays and formations and the like before going on a rant about rings and being a general on the field and acting like a thug and all that nonsense. With baseball, it feels like a good chunk of fans will look at you baffled by something as basic as a defensive shift or OPS.

 

Yeah, it's anecdotal, obviously. Most of the people I talk sports with are really into baseball, are well versed in statistics, and obviously that has a lot to do with it. But knowing the basic formations is pretty superficial knowledge, and as you say, beyond that, it usually devolves into ranting about intangibles, leadership, toughness and "knowing how to win". And maybe some quasi-knowledgeable bitching about rules/penalties.

 

At football viewing parties I've been to, there's typically a small handful of knowledgeable fans, and a much larger contingent who root hard, but who need the few to explain anything not completely obvious to them.

 

i don't know a single person like this in real life...i know a few who are smart enough to easily grasp that sort of thing if i explain it to them, but that's about it. nobody who even knows half as much as the average poster here does.

[Sammy Sofa]

I know, like, 4 people who have a firm grasp of baseball stats. And I'm a baseball idiot, so *I* should be worse than most of them, yet somehow I end up the one on the analytic side.

 

I used the defensive shift as an example on purpose; I've lost track of the number of times I heard some variation of people going "they can DO that?!?" when they see it happen.

[imb]

Football is fun to watch in its violent, short attention span requiring, lowest common denominator way, and part of me enjoys that. And those traits have made it successful, and will ensure it remains popular. But it's not nearly as compelling to me as baseball is. A decent way to pass most of the baseball offseason, though.

I think the lowest common denominator comment is way off. Consider that in a sport like football, where coaching and strategy actually matter, as opposed to baseball, where it's all about getting the best players and having them play. Baseball writers have always pretended it was more of a thinking man's game when it never was. It's just a very simple game and that's what makes it so great.

 

i like baseball more than i like football when all things are equal (i.e. when my teams in them are equally good), and i completely agree with this.

 

football takes so much more thinking and strategy than baseball that it's not even funny. it's not just a bunch of cavemen being violent.

 

My favorite thing about people who complain about football being for idiots or whatever is that it's basically true, except they're the idiots.