Ryan Sweeney

[Backtobanks]

Especially on a team that isn't going to contend next year.

 

I'm glad this is already a certainty.

 

I guess it's not a certainty, but it's pretty darn close. With Garza, Feldman, Marmol, Russell, Soriano, DeJesus, Barney, etc. as possible trade chips, there seems to be a lot of holes to fill on a team that headed for 94 losses with those players.

[Sammy Sofa]

Which is probably one of the reasons they'll likely only end up trading 3, MAYBE 4 of those guys.

[Guest]

Which is probably one of the reasons they'll likely only end up trading 3, MAYBE 4 of those guys.

 

Yep. And the team has a .500 pythag currently (with Castro being as bad as he could ever dream of being). And there will be money to spend this offseason.

 

But nope, contention next year is out of the question.

[Backtobanks]

Which is probably one of the reasons they'll likely only end up trading 3, MAYBE 4 of those guys.

 

Yep. And the team has a .500 pythag currently (with Castro being as bad as he could ever dream of being). And there will be money to spend this offseason.

 

But nope, contention next year is out of the question.

 

If the team was at .500, they would be 11 games back in the NL Central (not exactly contending). As for Castro hitting well below what was expected, we have Scherhotlz, Sweeny, and Navarro producing much more than expected offensively and Feldman, Wood, and Gregg all pitching much better than expected. There's money to be spent this offseason with very few options in the FA market to spend it on.

[Sammy Sofa]

Which is probably one of the reasons they'll likely only end up trading 3, MAYBE 4 of those guys.

 

Yep. And the team has a .500 pythag currently (with Castro being as bad as he could ever dream of being). And there will be money to spend this offseason.

 

But nope, contention next year is out of the question.

 

If the team was at .500, they would be 11 games back in the NL Central (not exactly contending). As for Castro hitting well below what was expected, we have Scherhotlz, Sweeny, and Navarro producing much more than expected offensively and Feldman, Wood, and Gregg all pitching much better than expected.

 

This really doesn't work like you think it does.

 

Plus I like how you think a team should just go into firesale mode if they're not in first or second in a tough divison, regardless of their record.

[Guest]

backtobanks' sole purpose on this board is to pick apart things theo does in an attempt to make hendry look better. it's weird

[Backtobanks]

backtobanks' sole purpose on this board is to pick apart things theo does in an attempt to make hendry look better. it's weird

 

It's amazing how some of you can't respond to any of my posts without bringing up Hendry. I haven't mentioned his name in over 6 months, but maybe some of you are starting to doubt what Theo is doing too.

 

Which is probably one of the reasons they'll likely only end up trading 3, MAYBE 4 of those guys.

 

Yep. And the team has a .500 pythag currently (with Castro being as bad as he could ever dream of being). And there will be money to spend this offseason.

 

But nope, contention next year is out of the question.

 

If the team was at .500, they would be 11 games back in the NL Central (not exactly contending). As for Castro hitting well below what was expected, we have Scherhotlz, Sweeny, and Navarro producing much more than expected offensively and Feldman, Wood, and Gregg all pitching much better than expected.

 

This really doesn't work like you think it does.

 

Plus I like how you think a team should just go into firesale mode if they're not in first or second in a tough divison, regardless of their record.

 

Some of you need to make up your mind as to what you think I'm in favor of doing. One minute you think I'm against building the farm system and only signing veterans and now you're accusing me of wanting to go into a "firesale mode". I've accepted the fact that Theo is going to follow his plan which means he will be trading some of the players I mentioned and receiving prospects. Building up the farm system will eventually make for better ML talent (either by using those prospects or trading some of them). I'm not as confident as most of you as to whether this plan will produce a WS winner or when, which was the point of hiring Theo. And finally if they were playing at .500, they would still be 5 1/2 games out of the 2nd wild card spot (which is still not exactly contending).

[Sammy Sofa]

You do realize you don't only trade for prospects who are a long ways from playing on the Major League team, right?

[biittner77]

You do realize you don't only trade for prospects who are a long ways from playing on the Major League team, right?

 

That's true but it's not unreasonable to suspect that's what they'd get for some of the players that might get traded. I doubt that happens though. I don't believe they're willing to risk losing 100 games again.

[Backtobanks]

You do realize you don't only trade for prospects who are a long ways from playing on the Major League team, right?

 

I realize that and I would hope that we could get a few players that could be productive at the ML level for 2014. As I've posted before, 2014 is the year to start showing something at the ML level before the influx of super-prospects in 2015. I'm as excited about Baez, Soler, etc. as anyone, but we can't afford three seasons in the toilet while we are waiting.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Judging by everything that this regime has done since they started, it seems clear to me that they are willing to spend on the right players. However, if the right players are either priced out or they simply miss out they're not just going to say oh well and blow the same wad on the next best option, although some might argue that that's what happened with Sanchez/Jackson.

 

I do think that they will be serious bidders for Ellsbury, Choo, or maybe Pence. But this doesn't mean that we'll get one. And if we miss out, they're not going to simply move on to Corey Hart or Mike Morse and offer them similar money. This isn't to say that they wouldn't be options, but they simply aren't going to get in bidding wars for players that aren't exactly what they want. My guess that if they intend in offering Choo or Ellsbury X number of dollars, and they miss out they're more likely to divide that same dollar amount between several younger, lesser players that they like rather than 1 or 2 bigger ticket guys. While they never said that they have no intention of winning before 2015, that's when their master plan ideally comes to fruitation. Any big signings they make until then will be for guys that are likely to be in their prime by then.

 

Again, hopefully by the 2015 offseason they'll have a pretty good idea which of the core prospects pan out, and thus they'll have a pretty good idea of where the holes remain. There's where they'll start pulling out the checkbook, be it for a front end starting pitcher or 2, a big bat, or whatever. And if they're paying 2-3MM for Sweenys and Feldmans up until that point rather than 10+MM for Harts and what have you, there will be hell of a lot of money to fill these holes. Especially when you take into consideration how little they're paying for Rizzo and Castro who figure to be 2 of the cornerstones. And when the Cubs are ready to contend, like last time every big ticket free agent will suddenly add the Cubs to their list of preferred teams.

[Backtobanks]

Judging by everything that this regime has done since they started, it seems clear to me that they are willing to spend on the right players. However, if the right players are either priced out or they simply miss out they're not just going to say oh well and blow the same wad on the next best option, although some might argue that that's what happened with Sanchez/Jackson.

 

I do think that they will be serious bidders for Ellsbury, Choo, or maybe Pence. But this doesn't mean that we'll get one. And if we miss out, they're not going to simply move on to Corey Hart or Mike Morse and offer them similar money. This isn't to say that they wouldn't be options, but they simply aren't going to get in bidding wars for players that aren't exactly what they want. My guess that if they intend in offering Choo or Ellsbury X number of dollars, and they miss out they're more likely to divide that same dollar amount between several younger, lesser players that they like rather than 1 or 2 bigger ticket guys. While they never said that they have no intention of winning before 2015, that's when their master plan ideally comes to fruitation. Any big signings they make until then will be for guys that are likely to be in their prime by then.

 

Again, hopefully by the 2015 offseason they'll have a pretty good idea which of the core prospects pan out, and thus they'll have a pretty good idea of where the holes remain. There's where they'll start pulling out the checkbook, be it for a front end starting pitcher or 2, a big bat, or whatever. And if they're paying 2-3MM for Sweenys and Feldmans up until that point rather than 10+MM for Harts and what have you, there will be hell of a lot of money to fill these holes. Especially when you take into consideration how little they're paying for Rizzo and Castro who figure to be 2 of the cornerstones. And when the Cubs are ready to contend, like last time every big ticket free agent will suddenly add the Cubs to their list of preferred teams.

 

What might be the big flaw in the plan is if other teams outbid us for the "right guy(s)" or if some of our "can't miss" prospects flame out. It looks to be a smart plan assuming everything (or at least 90%) goes right, but leaves little room for error.

[neely crenshaw]

We need a big bat and #1 arm to contend and that depends on who else we trade.

The bullpen has been better but certainly needs to be addressed.

We are closer than we appear but we aren't close. We are closing in on the midway point and we have the 3rd worst record in all of baseball.

It will be interesting to see who will be dealt. There seems to be a great chance to get many premium prospects and really stock our system because we should have some valued pieces, and there does not seem to be many other teams that will be sellers. Especially ones that have players that are valued.

I don't think they'll keep anyone but the "foundation" pieces IF the price is right. It may also signal what the FO thinks about 2014 by how many pieces they deal.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Judging by everything that this regime has done since they started, it seems clear to me that they are willing to spend on the right players. However, if the right players are either priced out or they simply miss out they're not just going to say oh well and blow the same wad on the next best option, although some might argue that that's what happened with Sanchez/Jackson.

 

I do think that they will be serious bidders for Ellsbury, Choo, or maybe Pence. But this doesn't mean that we'll get one. And if we miss out, they're not going to simply move on to Corey Hart or Mike Morse and offer them similar money. This isn't to say that they wouldn't be options, but they simply aren't going to get in bidding wars for players that aren't exactly what they want. My guess that if they intend in offering Choo or Ellsbury X number of dollars, and they miss out they're more likely to divide that same dollar amount between several younger, lesser players that they like rather than 1 or 2 bigger ticket guys. While they never said that they have no intention of winning before 2015, that's when their master plan ideally comes to fruitation. Any big signings they make until then will be for guys that are likely to be in their prime by then.

 

Again, hopefully by the 2015 offseason they'll have a pretty good idea which of the core prospects pan out, and thus they'll have a pretty good idea of where the holes remain. There's where they'll start pulling out the checkbook, be it for a front end starting pitcher or 2, a big bat, or whatever. And if they're paying 2-3MM for Sweenys and Feldmans up until that point rather than 10+MM for Harts and what have you, there will be hell of a lot of money to fill these holes. Especially when you take into consideration how little they're paying for Rizzo and Castro who figure to be 2 of the cornerstones. And when the Cubs are ready to contend, like last time every big ticket free agent will suddenly add the Cubs to their list of preferred teams.

 

What might be the big flaw in the plan is if other teams outbid us for the "right guy(s)" or if some of our "can't miss" prospects flame out. It looks to be a smart plan assuming everything (or at least 90%) goes right, but leaves little room for error.

 

My thinking is that when that time comes, not only will they be willing to bid more agressively, but once the Cubs start to shape up, more players will want to be Cubs. When the Cubs finally do win it all, everyone is going to want to be a part of it. I think that's a big part of the reason why a lot of free agents and trade candidates wanted to be Cubs when they were a ready made contender, possibly more so than Hendry throwing out incredibly player friendly contracts like youth groups do fliers at a 4th of July parade.

[neely crenshaw]

I think we have the kind of chips that could bring back some ready or near ready players. Teams already need pitching, and we have it. Teams will need bullpen help, and we have russell, and gregg if he continues.

Injuries could make DeJesus, Soriano and even Barney necessities for a team. Teams that feel they are close tend to overspend to get the piece they think puts them over the top.

Heck, we also have enough cheap-controlled players that we could pick up a talented money-dump player like aram for bobby hill.

 

There just aren't many teams looking like sellers with wanted players. Milwaukee could have some guys, but not much else other than stanton-which is a different realm.

[Sammy Sofa]

The Cubs need desperately bullpen help. The amount of times I see people willing to just chuck Russell out the door for a trade is baffling; sometimes you can't let go of your valuable players if it's from a position of extreme need.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

The Cubs need desperately bullpen help. The amount of times I see people willing to just chuck Russell out the door for a trade is baffling; sometimes you can't let go of your valuable players if it's from a position of extreme need.

 

We're like junkies. The only thrill we know is the brief high of adding new prospects to the lists, no matter how much it ruins our lives.

[Guest]

The Cubs need desperately bullpen help. The amount of times I see people willing to just chuck Russell out the door for a trade is baffling; sometimes you can't let go of your valuable players if it's from a position of extreme need.

 

We're like junkies. The only thrill we know is the brief high of adding new prospects to the lists, no matter how much it ruins our lives.

 

 

I have to admit that there's a sick small part of me that wants another crazy good draft pick added to just have a ridiculous embarrassment of riches in the list a year from now. Not like anyone is going to graduate, either.

[Cubswin11]

The Cubs need desperately bullpen help. The amount of times I see people willing to just chuck Russell out the door for a trade is baffling; sometimes you can't let go of your valuable players if it's from a position of extreme need.

 

We're like junkies. The only thrill we know is the brief high of adding new prospects to the lists, no matter how much it ruins our lives.

 

 

I have to admit that there's a sick small part of me that wants another crazy good draft pick added to just have a ridiculous embarrassment of riches in the list a year from now. Not like anyone is going to graduate, either.

Even if there isn't a huge sell-off I think we are looking at another top 7ish pick next year if this team stays relatively the same the rest of the year. While they might stay good enough to not get a top 20-30 guy in next years draft there still should be another top 50-60 guy added.

[Guest]

Judging by everything that this regime has done since they started, it seems clear to me that they are willing to spend on the right players. However, if the right players are either priced out or they simply miss out they're not just going to say oh well and blow the same wad on the next best option, although some might argue that that's what happened with Sanchez/Jackson.

 

I do think that they will be serious bidders for Ellsbury, Choo, or maybe Pence. But this doesn't mean that we'll get one. And if we miss out, they're not going to simply move on to Corey Hart or Mike Morse and offer them similar money. This isn't to say that they wouldn't be options, but they simply aren't going to get in bidding wars for players that aren't exactly what they want. My guess that if they intend in offering Choo or Ellsbury X number of dollars, and they miss out they're more likely to divide that same dollar amount between several younger, lesser players that they like rather than 1 or 2 bigger ticket guys. While they never said that they have no intention of winning before 2015, that's when their master plan ideally comes to fruitation. Any big signings they make until then will be for guys that are likely to be in their prime by then.

 

Again, hopefully by the 2015 offseason they'll have a pretty good idea which of the core prospects pan out, and thus they'll have a pretty good idea of where the holes remain. There's where they'll start pulling out the checkbook, be it for a front end starting pitcher or 2, a big bat, or whatever. And if they're paying 2-3MM for Sweenys and Feldmans up until that point rather than 10+MM for Harts and what have you, there will be hell of a lot of money to fill these holes. Especially when you take into consideration how little they're paying for Rizzo and Castro who figure to be 2 of the cornerstones. And when the Cubs are ready to contend, like last time every big ticket free agent will suddenly add the Cubs to their list of preferred teams.

 

What might be the big flaw in the plan is if other teams outbid us for the "right guy(s)" or if some of our "can't miss" prospects flame out. It looks to be a smart plan assuming everything (or at least 90%) goes right, but leaves little room for error.

 

this front office is smart enough to know that "can't miss" guys don't really exist. and i'm not sure what the "right guy" stuff is about, unless you're complaining about the fact that they want guys that they think are good. the cubs goal so far has been to find assets through volume. they aren't relying on a few select prospects. they are adding them in every way imaginable (short term tradeable contracts, big spending on the draft and IFA) and hoping they get average luck and find some guys that end up being good.

 

you know what's more risky? signing a few high priced 29 year-olds and then praying that every one of them works out.

[Clem Fandango]

Is this thread even about Ryan Sweeney?

[Backtobanks]

Judging by everything that this regime has done since they started, it seems clear to me that they are willing to spend on the right players. However, if the right players are either priced out or they simply miss out they're not just going to say oh well and blow the same wad on the next best option, although some might argue that that's what happened with Sanchez/Jackson.

 

I do think that they will be serious bidders for Ellsbury, Choo, or maybe Pence. But this doesn't mean that we'll get one. And if we miss out, they're not going to simply move on to Corey Hart or Mike Morse and offer them similar money. This isn't to say that they wouldn't be options, but they simply aren't going to get in bidding wars for players that aren't exactly what they want. My guess that if they intend in offering Choo or Ellsbury X number of dollars, and they miss out they're more likely to divide that same dollar amount between several younger, lesser players that they like rather than 1 or 2 bigger ticket guys. While they never said that they have no intention of winning before 2015, that's when their master plan ideally comes to fruitation. Any big signings they make until then will be for guys that are likely to be in their prime by then.

 

Again, hopefully by the 2015 offseason they'll have a pretty good idea which of the core prospects pan out, and thus they'll have a pretty good idea of where the holes remain. There's where they'll start pulling out the checkbook, be it for a front end starting pitcher or 2, a big bat, or whatever. And if they're paying 2-3MM for Sweenys and Feldmans up until that point rather than 10+MM for Harts and what have you, there will be hell of a lot of money to fill these holes. Especially when you take into consideration how little they're paying for Rizzo and Castro who figure to be 2 of the cornerstones. And when the Cubs are ready to contend, like last time every big ticket free agent will suddenly add the Cubs to their list of preferred teams.

 

What might be the big flaw in the plan is if other teams outbid us for the "right guy(s)" or if some of our "can't miss" prospects flame out. It looks to be a smart plan assuming everything (or at least 90%) goes right, but leaves little room for error.

 

this front office is smart enough to know that "can't miss" guys don't really exist. and i'm not sure what the "right guy" stuff is about, unless you're complaining about the fact that they want guys that they think are good. the cubs goal so far has been to find assets through volume. they aren't relying on a few select prospects. they are adding them in every way imaginable (short term tradeable contracts, big spending on the draft and IFA) and hoping they get average luck and find some guys that end up being good.

 

you know what's more risky? signing a few high priced 29 year-olds and then praying that every one of them works out.

 

The "right guy" is the guy that the FO will hopefully spend so money on when the time comes that we might be contenders. Are you saying that Theo's "plan" is to just keep acquiring players and hope that some of them work out? That certainly doesn't sound very scientific and doesn't bode well for an end to the mediocrity at the ML level. We've been patient and now it's time to start building a respecttable team for 2014 in order to be a solid contending team for 2015 and beyond. As for signing 29 year-olds, at least they have a track record in which we can have reasonable expectations.

[Guest]

I know it's right there, but just to be certain, you have now made these two statements consecutively:

 

What might be the big flaw in the plan is if other teams outbid us for the "right guy(s)" or if some of our "can't miss" prospects flame out. It looks to be a smart plan assuming everything (or at least 90%) goes right, but leaves little room for error.

 

Are you saying that Theo's "plan" is to just keep acquiring players and hope that some of them work out? That certainly doesn't sound very scientific and doesn't bode well for an end to the mediocrity at the ML level.

[Backtobanks]

I know it's right there, but just to be certain, you have now made these two statements consecutively:

 

What might be the big flaw in the plan is if other teams outbid us for the "right guy(s)" or if some of our "can't miss" prospects flame out. It looks to be a smart plan assuming everything (or at least 90%) goes right, but leaves little room for error.

 

Are you saying that Theo's "plan" is to just keep acquiring players and hope that some of them work out? That certainly doesn't sound very scientific and doesn't bode well for an end to the mediocrity at the ML level.

 

I guess I should have said in the second quote that it looks like his plan is to keep acquiring dumpster-diving players and hope that some of them work out which dosen't bode well for an end to the mediocrity at the ML level.. In any case, I've learned from the FO with quotes like "building on dual fronts", "every season is scared", and "we're going to put a team on the field that you can be proud of".

[Guest]

FYI, "I'm going to disagree indiscriminately" is not the same as "dual fronts".