Minor League Discussion & Boxes 5-20-12

[davell]

Wells had 5IP 4H 2R 2ER 0W 7K. Probably his best outing of the year and the bright spot for our minors today.

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

I feel like that some kind of feat this year for this system. The feat being getting more K's than IP. It's probably not but Wells is more significant than most of the others who do it. 7 K's feels like an event just happened.

[toonsterwu]

I was skimming through some starters, and I hadn't realized it, but yeah, there haven't been that many starts where guys had more K's than IP's. Travis Wood had a couple in AAA. There's probably a few more.

 

As a side note, the 7 ip, 7 K outing for Raley last week was surprising because ... well Raley and K's ...

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

I was skimming through some starters, and I hadn't realized it, but yeah, there haven't been that many starts where guys had more K's than IP's. Travis Wood had a couple in AAA. There's probably a few more.

 

As a side note, the 7 ip, 7 K outing for Raley last week was surprising because ... well Raley and K's ...

 

Yep, the starting pitching on the farm has been horribly boring so far this year. It's telling that the two most exciting arms for me to pay attention to are the yet to be touted Wells and the far off 2011 draftee sleeper that is Tayler Scott.

 

I do root for Concepcion and Raley, but that's more out of desperation.

[Guest]

I feel like that some kind of feat this year for this system. The feat being getting more K's than IP. It's probably not but Wells is more significant than most of the others who do it. 7 K's feels like an event just happened.

 

Jose Rosario just struck out 9 in 5.1 two days ago. Rosario has had a few outings with more Ks than IP. PJ Francescon has had a few back in April.

 

Eric Jokisch had an 11 K in 7 inning outing in early May. Nick Struck opened the season with a 10 K game in 6 innings.

[toonsterwu]

Pugliese has done pretty well.

 

If you don't consider 2012 draftees and assume Whitenack rehabs at a higher level (I would like to see Peralta at a higher level too but it's starting to get late for that), I think you see this rotation at Boise:

 

Peralta, Pugliese, Scott, Arias, Dickson and/or Kim.

 

Unless he's injured, don't forget about Willengton Cruz, who got demoted. He could be a factor there. That said, if a call-up to Daytona happens at some point, I could see Cruz get sent back to Peoria.

 

I did forget about him, good call. I'd rather see Peralta go to Peoria at this point over Cruz.

 

Hey, you recall what the status with Paulino is? I seem to want to say some sort of injury, but I can't recall right now.

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

I feel like that some kind of feat this year for this system. The feat being getting more K's than IP. It's probably not but Wells is more significant than most of the others who do it. 7 K's feels like an event just happened.

 

Jose Rosario just struck out 9 in 5.1 two days ago. Rosario has had a few outings with more Ks than IP. PJ Francescon has had a few back in April.

 

Eric Jokisch had an 11 K in 7 inning outing in early May. Nick Struck opened the season with a 10 K game in 6 innings.

 

Wells is easily the most talented and significant of that bunch...I Mean Francenscon is 23 and he's not even in High A for Jah's sake. Jokisch is your typical lefty junk baller who might be able to outsmart minor leaguers but major leaguers will most likely tee off on him. Struck has some potential but I'm not sold on him being anything major in the long run either. Rosario probably has some talent, but Wells is younger than him pitching at the same level.

 

So I guess I should clarify....One of the few high K performances by a prospect I actually think will matter in 2 years. I actually find Raley's 7 K performance last week more significant than all of those performances except maaaaaaybe Rosario, who I basically don't know enough about (I can say 21, short, RH, low A, not because he's a recent college draftee).

[Guest]

Pugliese has done pretty well.

 

If you don't consider 2012 draftees and assume Whitenack rehabs at a higher level (I would like to see Peralta at a higher level too but it's starting to get late for that), I think you see this rotation at Boise:

 

Peralta, Pugliese, Scott, Arias, Dickson and/or Kim.

 

Unless he's injured, don't forget about Willengton Cruz, who got demoted. He could be a factor there. That said, if a call-up to Daytona happens at some point, I could see Cruz get sent back to Peoria.

 

I did forget about him, good call. I'd rather see Peralta go to Peoria at this point over Cruz.

 

Hey, you recall what the status with Paulino is? I seem to want to say some sort of injury, but I can't recall right now.

 

Arizona Phil said he was pitching on the side because he was having big time control problems in extended spring training games. He is healthy, though.

[Guest]

I feel like that some kind of feat this year for this system. The feat being getting more K's than IP. It's probably not but Wells is more significant than most of the others who do it. 7 K's feels like an event just happened.

 

Jose Rosario just struck out 9 in 5.1 two days ago. Rosario has had a few outings with more Ks than IP. PJ Francescon has had a few back in April.

 

Eric Jokisch had an 11 K in 7 inning outing in early May. Nick Struck opened the season with a 10 K game in 6 innings.

 

Wells is easily the most talented and significant of that bunch...I Mean Francenscon is 23 and he's not even in High A for Jah's sake. Jokisch is your typical lefty junk baller who might be able to outsmart minor leaguers but major leaguers will most likely tee off on him. Struck has some potential but I'm not sold on him being anything major in the long run either. Rosario probably has some talent, but Wells is younger than him pitching at the same level.

 

So I guess I should clarify....One of the few high K performances by a prospect I actually think will matter in 2 years. I actually find Raley's 7 K performance last week more significant than all of those performances except maaaaaaybe Rosario, who I basically don't know enough about (I can say 21, short, RH, low A, not because he's a recent college draftee).

 

Rosario is widely considered a better prospect than Raley.

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

I feel like that some kind of feat this year for this system. The feat being getting more K's than IP. It's probably not but Wells is more significant than most of the others who do it. 7 K's feels like an event just happened.

 

Jose Rosario just struck out 9 in 5.1 two days ago. Rosario has had a few outings with more Ks than IP. PJ Francescon has had a few back in April.

 

Eric Jokisch had an 11 K in 7 inning outing in early May. Nick Struck opened the season with a 10 K game in 6 innings.

 

Wells is easily the most talented and significant of that bunch...I Mean Francenscon is 23 and he's not even in High A for Jah's sake. Jokisch is your typical lefty junk baller who might be able to outsmart minor leaguers but major leaguers will most likely tee off on him. Struck has some potential but I'm not sold on him being anything major in the long run either. Rosario probably has some talent, but Wells is younger than him pitching at the same level.

 

So I guess I should clarify....One of the few high K performances by a prospect I actually think will matter in 2 years. I actually find Raley's 7 K performance last week more significant than all of those performances except maaaaaaybe Rosario, who I basically don't know enough about (I can say 21, short, RH, low A, not because he's a recent college draftee).

 

Rosario is widely considered a better prospect than Raley.

 

Both are big mehs , but Raley is a healthy, athletic lefty so I guess I'm out of that wide range. Maybe once I learn more about Rosario, but I'm unusually optimistic on Raley for the time being. Neither is the kind of arm that makes a big time impact as starters, though I guess it can be argued that as pen arms will go Rosario > Raley. I think Raley has a better chance to remain a starter and pitch in the back of a rotation.

[Guest]

I feel like that some kind of feat this year for this system. The feat being getting more K's than IP. It's probably not but Wells is more significant than most of the others who do it. 7 K's feels like an event just happened.

 

Jose Rosario just struck out 9 in 5.1 two days ago. Rosario has had a few outings with more Ks than IP. PJ Francescon has had a few back in April.

 

Eric Jokisch had an 11 K in 7 inning outing in early May. Nick Struck opened the season with a 10 K game in 6 innings.

 

Wells is easily the most talented and significant of that bunch...I Mean Francenscon is 23 and he's not even in High A for Jah's sake. Jokisch is your typical lefty junk baller who might be able to outsmart minor leaguers but major leaguers will most likely tee off on him. Struck has some potential but I'm not sold on him being anything major in the long run either. Rosario probably has some talent, but Wells is younger than him pitching at the same level.

 

So I guess I should clarify....One of the few high K performances by a prospect I actually think will matter in 2 years. I actually find Raley's 7 K performance last week more significant than all of those performances except maaaaaaybe Rosario, who I basically don't know enough about (I can say 21, short, RH, low A, not because he's a recent college draftee).

 

Rosario is widely considered a better prospect than Raley.

 

Both are big mehs , but Raley is a healthy, athletic, lefty so I guess I'm out of that wide range. Maybe once I learn more about Rosario, but I'm unusually optimistic on Raley for the time being. Neither is the kind of arm that makes a big time impact, though I guess it can be argued that as pen arms will go Rosario > Raley.

 

Rosario throws 93-97 with good life on his FB and a hard slider which has potential to be a plus pitch. He was rated the 22nd best prospect in the Cubs system by BA.

 

Rosario has #3 starter/late-inning reliever potential, Raley is more like a #5.

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

 

Rosario throws 93-97 with good life on his FB and a hard slider which has potential to be a plus pitch. He was rated the 22nd best prospect in the Cubs system by BA.

 

Rosario has #3 starter/late-inning reliever potential, Raley is more like a #5.

 

My thinking is that Raley is much more likely to be a #5 than Rosario is to being a #3.

 

That sounds like a fairly standard interesting bullpen arsenal. Plenty of relievers, including current Cubs, were allowed to start in the minors until they weren't.

[Guest]

 

Rosario throws 93-97 with good life on his FB and a hard slider which has potential to be a plus pitch. He was rated the 22nd best prospect in the Cubs system by BA.

 

Rosario has #3 starter/late-inning reliever potential, Raley is more like a #5.

 

My thinking is that Raley is much more likely to be a #5 than Rosario is to being a #3.

 

That sounds like a fairly standard interesting bullpen arsenal. Plenty of relievers, including current Cubs, were allowed to start in the minors until they weren't.

 

Yes, Rosario is more likely to be a reliever than a starter but if you apply your logic in valuing Raley over Rosario across the system, you would overvalue safe prospects at the upper levels of the minors who are likely to reach the big leagues but not do much up there (which, clearly you don't since you seem to like Ben Wells quite a bit).

 

Just because Rosario might miss his ceiling as a #3 starter doesn't automatically mean he'd be a worse big leaguer than Raley. Rosario could still be a better starter than Raley or a valuable late inning high leverage reliever. And that doesn't discount the possibility that Raley could easily miss his ceiling and turn into a long reliever at best.

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

Yes, Rosario is more likely to be a reliever than a starter but if you apply your logic in valuing Raley over Rosario across the system, you would overvalue safe prospects at the upper levels of the minors who are likely to reach the big leagues but not do much up there (which, clearly you don't since you seem to like Ben Wells quite a bit).

 

Just because Rosario might miss his ceiling as a #3 starter doesn't automatically mean he'd be a worse big leaguer than Raley. Rosario could still be a better starter than Raley or a valuable late inning high leverage reliever. And that doesn't discount the possibility that Raley could easily miss his ceiling and turn into a long reliever at best.

 

It's more complicated and free flowing than that I like to think. It shouldn't be thrown out that this is only Raley's 3rd season focusing on pitching (this was a player considered to be the best two way college player in his draft), while Rosario is working on year 4 in the Cubs system. I think the odds are overwhelmingly against (even more than usual) Rosario even remaining a starter, and this starting stuff is just a stage to let him work on his repertoire for the coming transition to the pen. Saying his upside is that of a #3 starter IMO is superficial and based on the fact that he has a strong arm rather than any realistic hope of him becoming a #3 starter. He's short...RH...4 years in on his development...primarily a two pitch guy who's main focus is refining that second pitch...isn't a strike thrower...probably doesn't even have consistent mechanics yet...

 

I also think hard throwing RH pen arms with potential plus sliders are almost a dime a dozen at this point, so I value that accordingly. The Cubs have a dozen guys like Rosario in this system starting from Dolis on to Cabrera down. There are not many (any?) guys in the system who are like Raley, who amongst the soft tossing lefties is the biggest and most athletic (maybe Concepcion?).

 

I like guys who stand out, and Raley is more of a freak in that area than Rosario is.

 

There is a little bit of that valuing guys who'll make it to the show a little bit more. I think there should be some respect for that tbh, and it is something I do put some value in. As far as Wells, I think he's got #3-4 starter upside (made comps to Jake Westbrook before) who could jump up a notch if he keeps developing physically.

[toonsterwu]

How many guys do the Cubs have that, potentially, are hard throwing righties with potential plus breaking balls (and are close to being that right now)? Honestly, I count four others - Rafael Dolis (and don't get me started on the consistency of the slider, which I believe has been over-hyped), Alberto Cabrera, Tony Zych (don't get me started on the quality of his breaking stuff as of now, but I'll bend on that for now), and Marcus Hatley. Certain guys could be there - Starling Peralta comes to mind. That said, Zych didn't have a chance as a starter, Peralta is far behind Rosario in development, and Cabrera never consistently hit mid-90's as a starter.

 

How many soft-tossing lefties (with solid to good control) do we have? Sure, Raley is more athletic than most, but ... it's hard to believe that he's going to add velocity at this stage. Not impossible, and that was why a lot of us liked Raley a few years ago (the potential to add velocity), but as you note ... 3 years in the system. As an aside, Rosario's also 21 to Raley's 23, almost 24 (Rosario turns 22 in late August), so while he's had another year in the system, I'm not sure how far you get with arguing years in the system as a key advantage for Raley. Both have been around long enough. Furthermore, if videographer's comments on Rosario's change-up was a sign that Rosario's change-up has developed, then let's not rule him out as a starter just yet. He's strung together four mildly interesting starts in MY.

 

Rosario's command isn't great, but is fine, haven't heard any significant issues with his mechanics (but haven't really thought about it that much ... _, and there seem to be positive reports on the breaking ball (btw, I had been under the impression that it was a curveball. maybe it's more slurvy.) and the change-up. That's a lot of positives. Sure, if you asked me to make a call right now, I think he'll end up in the pen. But then again ... outside of arms that I personally like a lot ... like Ben Wells, I'd probably guess pen for 90% of the arms in the Low A. Just playing the odds. That said, Raley's probably fighting with Rusin for an outside shot at being an end of the rotation lefty. He's likely ticketed in 2013, for his age 24/25 season, as a AAA arm, and that seems to increase the chances that when's up, he'll be a pen arm.

 

I get the point you are saying. Raley's an intriguing athletic specimen, but I'm not sure I buy Raley adding velocity anymore, and if he doesn't, then his athleticism doesn't go that far anymore in comparing him to polished guys like Rusin (with borderline plus secondary stuff), or maybe even a Kirk (younger). If you think he could add velocity, then yes, that changes the equation, and I would hope that you are right. Raley's a guy with end of the rotation potential, a possible 5 starter, but the chances are high that, if he makes it up (and realistically ... stuff/command wise, he's not significantly better than JR Mathes was in AA, so there's always a chance he stalls out as a system arm in AAA) that it would be in the pen. Rosario's certainly got significantly higher "bust potential", but there aren't many guys in the system with easy mid-90's heat as a starter, and there are positive signs this year. That said, his potential in the pen is higher than Raley's (I'd be mildly surprised if Rosario, if healthy, couldn't be a mid-upper 90's pen guy consistently) because of his velocity.

 

This is a system that, in full season, is fairly devoid of power arms on the starting side ... and let's face it ... on the pen side as well. Rosario's a guy who stands out. He might not have the athletic ability that Raley does, but his baseball potential is a lot more "freakish" than Raley, IMO.

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

How many guys do the Cubs have that, potentially, are hard throwing righties with potential plus breaking balls (and are close to being that right now)? Honestly, I count four others - Rafael Dolis (and don't get me started on the consistency of the slider, which I believe has been over-hyped), Alberto Cabrera, Tony Zych (don't get me started on the quality of his breaking stuff as of now, but I'll bend on that for now), and Marcus Hatley. Certain guys could be there - Starling Peralta comes to mind. That said, Zych didn't have a chance as a starter, Peralta is far behind Rosario in development, and Cabrera never consistently hit mid-90's as a starter.

 

So now Rosario's slider is close to being plus and consistent? Man he keeps getting better and better!

 

Other arms who could/probably will make the switch to relief at some point or another:

 

Wang

Peralta

Cates

Liria

Rhoderick

Francescon

Reed

Suarez (late addition, added him for the hell of it, originally was at 11 + Rosario)

 

We're at 12 plus Rosario...13...that's before the draft, before IFAs, without a thorough rundown of the rosters (not that there's much pitching in this system), and so on and so forth. Didn't even count McNutt, who might be headed for the bullpen if he doesn't get it together.

 

The rest...[expletive] it'll pain me to do it but might as well:

 

How many soft-tossing lefties (with solid to good control) do we have? Sure, Raley is more athletic than most, but ... it's hard to believe that he's going to add velocity at this stage. Not impossible, and that was why a lot of us liked Raley a few years ago (the potential to add velocity), but as you note ... 3 years in the system. As an aside, Rosario's also 21 to Raley's 23, almost 24 (Rosario turns 22 in late August), so while he's had another year in the system, I'm not sure how far you get with arguing years in the system as a key advantage for Raley. Both have been around long enough. Furthermore, if videographer's comments on Rosario's change-up was a sign that Rosario's change-up has developed, then let's not rule him out as a starter just yet. He's strung together four mildly interesting starts in MY.

 

I don't think you get the point about athleticism. Sure, athleticism plays into velocity but I'm also talking things like repeating mechanics, being able to adjust mechanics without getting hurt, generally staying healthy at all, being able to better improve command and control...This is the kind of stuff athleticism allows for, and Raley has that in spades. I don't think it's fair to simply ignore that this is a guy who could have been a fairly early draft pick on either side of the ball, and has only been focusing on pitching in the recent years of his baseball life.

 

A 21 year old who is in his 4th, not first or second, season in pro ball stringing together 4 "mildly interesting" starts in Peoria doesn't do it for me. If it does it for you, then that's fine and all, but I'm not so sure that he merits so many words.

 

I'm also crazy so...

 

Rosario's command isn't great, but is fine, haven't heard any significant issues with his mechanics (but haven't really thought about it that much ... _, and there seem to be positive reports on the breaking ball (btw, I had been under the impression that it was a curveball. maybe it's more slurvy.) and the change-up. That's a lot of positives. Sure, if you asked me to make a call right now, I think he'll end up in the pen. But then again ... outside of arms that I personally like a lot ... like Ben Wells, I'd probably guess pen for 90% of the arms in the Low A. Just playing the odds. That said, Raley's probably fighting with Rusin for an outside shot at being an end of the rotation lefty. He's likely ticketed in 2013, for his age 24/25 season, as a AAA arm, and that seems to increase the chances that when's up, he'll be a pen arm.

 

"Isn't great but is fine" sounds pretty meh to me, again. My guess is that he's not stuck in developmental purgatory because he has fine mechanics or command, but maybe there's something else going on (pot? Who doesn't like pot?).

 

Raley is fighting with Rusin, who he's probably more physically talented than anyway. Rosario is fighting with a dozen other guys+ with similar profiles or profiles well within reason to being called similar, quite a few well ahead of him.

 

This is a system that, in full season, is fairly devoid of power arms on the starting side ... and let's face it ... on the pen side as well. Rosario's a guy who stands out. He might not have the athletic ability that Raley does, but his baseball potential is a lot more "freakish" than Raley, IMO.

 

It is devoid of power arms on the starting side, and I don't think Rosario is going to push that movement forward too much (if at all). There's plenty of potential pen arms, and probably more to come/be added. His baseball potential would be more freakish if he actually stood out in some way beyond being generic throws hard/spins ball RH who probably (and when I say this in his case I mean moreso than usual) won't make it as a starter. I think a potential LH 5th starter who might be able to handle the bat better than most pitchers, run the bases better than most pitchers, and field his position better than most is actually relatively more freakish, and while the Cubs system is so unexciting I have to remember to keep it all relative.

 

I'm really not sure either of these guys merits all these words. I'm not being crazy but not being high on Rosario as a SP, and you're not being crazy by not being high on Raley. We're being crazy by using alot of words on them.

[toonsterwu]

Avoiding the quote block and going through your post, roughly in order

 

1.

So now Rosario's slider is close to being plus and consistent? Man he keeps getting better and better!

 

What I said was "potentially ... hard throwing righties with potential plus breaking pitches". Perhaps the quoted part made it a bit confusing, but by "close to being that right now", I meant in terms of development (and even then, I'm giving a lot of leeway on Dolis and Zych's breaking balls), not a sign on consistency (for example, Jose Arias has mid-90's velocity and potentially, down the line, a plus breaking pitch, but the development is behind for now. Same goes for Amaury Paulino and Starling Peralta).

 

Jose Rosario has always had "potential plus breaking" stuff. I'm not sure what the issue is here.

 

2. Wang, Peralta, Cates, Liria. Rhoderick, Francescon. Reed, Suarez (late addition, added him for the hell of it, originally was at 11 + Rosario).

 

I'm not sure what reports you are getting, but Rosario was throwing mid-90's as a starter. I had high hopes for Liria, I'll admit to that, but the reports on his fastball this year are largely low 90's. Same with Cates - low 90's as a starter. Same with Wang. That puts Rosario on a far different plane than those guys. Peralta is one guy who can hit mid-90's ... but I've noted the development is behind.

 

Rhoderick is a low 90's fastball with decent movement and a plus slider ... in the pen. Francescon, who I've championed a tiny bit, is a low 90's fastball as a starter. Suarez had mid-90's heat, but has been inconsistent with it, and I don't recall his velo readings as a starter as of now. I haven't heard of Reed as a guy hitting mid-90's out of the pen.

 

Again, I think the keypoint CR tried to start of with is this - Rosario was hitting mid-90's as a starter. There aren't many arms in the system doing that. I haven't argued that Rosario is going to stay a starter - I've said there were bright spots to give hope, but in terms of baseball talent, yes, I think his mid-90's velo as a starter is intriguing.

 

3. No, I get the point about athletic ability. If you scan my old posts here, I was a big fan of Wilken drafting athletic arms. CR might remember this, but I was a huge fan of Justin Bristow because of his athletic ability (former shortstop) and heat (mid-90's as a piggyback, IIRC). But ... at the end of the day, Raley's ability to make it as a starter will depend on his stuff. If his stuff doesn't improve, then what? Again, I think it's easy to forget that stuff wise, Raley (and I'm sure the search function can show that I was superbly high on him 2 years ago) right now isn't significantly better than JR Mathes, a guy who became synonymous with the term "system arm". For all the things athletic ability offers, unless his stuff improves, and particularly his velocity, then he's a guy peaking mostly in the high 80's with average secondary stuff. How many guys make it as starters with that? Chris Rusin has far better command, solid mechanics, and better breaking pitches ... and we still largely talk about him as a borderline starting candidate.

 

4. At a certain point, I question how much hope we can place on "he was a former two way guy who is learning to be a full-time pitcher". This is his 3rd full year as a full-time starter, 4th pro season. He's nearing the age where physical maturation stops growing in leaps and bounds (and thus, nearing the "prime years"). His K, BB, GB rates are all similar to past years (well ... BB rate overall is improved, but it spiked in May), with the big improvement, at a quick glance, being in limiting HR's. Still, it looks and feels like what we see with Raley right now is what is there. I hope you are right and that something else is in the bag.

 

5. Raley is fighting with Rusin, who he's probably more physically talented than anyway. I don't disagree on physical talent. If they were in a ... running contest, I imagine Raley would win. But baseball wise, Rusin's mechanics aren't an issue, and his secondary stuff is better. Physical talent only takes you so far.

___

 

I don't know what to respond to this:

My guess is that he's not stuck in developmental purgatory because he has fine mechanics or command, but maybe there's something else going on (pot? Who doesn't like pot?).

I have no idea if he uses pot, nor is it a concern of mine, as a Cubs fan, unless it impacts his baseball ability. I don't know what development purgatory you are referring to either, but you've mentioned a few times that he has been in the system 4 years. He hasn't stalled at any level, moving up consistently, from 2009 (DSL/AZL) to 2010 (XST/AZL) to 2011 (XST/Boise) to 2012 (Peoria). For a raw guy who started at 18 ... I don't see anything wrong with his progression. He's steadily moving up, he's performing in Low A at an age appropriate level, and he has upside.

 

___

 

I'll end on this - I hope to heck that Raley meets your expectations and not mine (pen arm/AAA guy). That means a good, useful player for the Cubs, which is the only thing that matters. I'm also not the biggest Rosario fan. I had him on the back end of my top 30 this winter. He's not a guy I'm going to champion, in the way that Tim talks about his support for Junior Lake/Josh Vitters, and in the way I would champion Ben Wells.

 

I still think you are somewhat under-selling Rosario a bit. I still think placing his "stuff" into the "dime-a-dozen" category is ... odd. We're talking about a guy who, as a starter, is hitting mid-90's on a fairly regular basis. There really aren't that many arms in the Cubs system, starting wise, that is doing that. There's McNutt, who has a ton of issues. There's maybe Michael Jensen, but he's in the low 90's a lot more than mid-90's as a starter. Alberto Cabrera could hit mid-90's as a starter (and perhaps, stuff wise, that's a good comp). There's maybe Kyler Burke, but I don't like the reports that he's pitching solely out of the stretch, and wasn't it a few starts ago that he was more low 90's. I'm really running out of names of guys that were tossing mid-90's as a starter. Whitenack hit mid-90's some last year, but that's stretching it, IMO, as his sinker is better, IMO, in the low 90's and touching mid-90's than having him trying to consistently force a power sinker. There's Ben Wells. We're also talking about a guy with some potential on the breaking stuff, a guy age appropriate for his level and performing well so far. (8.37 K/9, 3.23 BB/9 are solid enough stats as of now, and he's not giving up the long ball).

 

As of now, if I did a Cubs prospect list, off the top, I imagine I'd slider him up, maybe to the mid-teens (on merit). That doesn't mean I think he'll make it as a starter, though. Just a reflection on his talent and potential, which certainly comes with bust potential, but seems much more unique than an arm like Raley's.

[iowahawkeyes89]

Saw Conception yesterday afternoon...fastball was 89-91 hit 92 a couple times. His curveball was very underwhelming yesterday. He struggled throwing his off speed stuff for strikes. At any pro level of ball you're going to get crushed if the only strike you can throw is a 89-91 mph fastball.

 

Obviously it was just one start, but I wouldn't be surprised if this has been the main reason he's been getting hit so hard early on.

 

Ben Wells...throws lots of sinkers, 90-92 MPH, blew the save but then settled in nicely and got the W.

 

Wells is definitely a starter in my opinion.

 

I'll be out again at noon today

[toonsterwu]

Thanks iowa. Any feel on Wells breaking ball (also, did he try to power through some sinkers, as he was apt to do last year at times?)

 

Sounds like BA, and others, reports on Concepcion were fairly accurate. IIRC, BA even suggested that his mechanics may hamper his breaking ball consistency. Didn't the Cubs say they had him in the low-mid 90's? Sure seems like the Cubs either saw him on a good day, or just wanted to hard sell him in the final days of free spending.

[Guest]

Thank you, toonster.

 

I don't see how being in the low levels of the system for 4 years is a mark against a Latin guy coming up through the ranks slowly. And consistently throwing mid 90s as a starter is much different than all the other arms, some of whom didn't even settle into the low 90s consistently as a starter. And hell, Raley is repeating AA. It's his 3rd full season in the system, at some point, his athleticism and quitting two-way play has to actually manifest itself and help him.

 

Also, PriortoTheoIhadWood, did you really say the reason Rosario has moved station to station in the lower minors is because of pot with nothing to back that up!?!?

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

Bbref says Rosario is from NY, he just happens to have a Latin name. Was he an IFA?

 

Oh and:

 

at the end of the day, Raley's ability to make it as a starter will depend on his stuff. If his stuff doesn't improve, then what?

 

Then his ceiling remains a 5th starter.

Edited May 21, 2012 by PriortoTheoIhadWood

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

Also, PriortoTheoIhadWood, did you really say the reason Rosario has moved station to station in the lower minors is because of pot with nothing to back that up!?!?

 

I wrote that at 4 AM for shiggles, there was no serious intent there.

[fiver]

I'll get to watch the Smokies play Thursday night, and it looks like that will be McNutt's turn to pitch. Is Ha considered the best position prospect on this team?

[Guest]

Junior Lake

 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[Guest]

Bbref says Rosario is from NY, he just happens to have a Latin name. Was he an IFA?

 

Oh and:

 

at the end of the day, Raley's ability to make it as a starter will depend on his stuff. If his stuff doesn't improve, then what?

 

Then his ceiling remains a 5th starter.

 

Rosario was born in NYC but signed as an IFA out of the Dominican.