Grinderball - Cubs Style

[Tim]

I mentioned this in the manager thread, but thought the concept deserved attention of its own.

 

Theo specifically stressed "grinding the at bats", during his recent interviews. He absolutely does not mean this to advocate small ball, sacrificing, etc.

 

When the White Sox (and others) talk about grinderball or a guy being a grinder, they mean that guy puts maximum effort into the game at all times. It denotes a guy who works really hard.

 

When Theo is talking about grinding at bats, he doesn't mean the same thing. What he's talking about is making the other team work harder. Be patient at the plate, make the opposing pitcher throw more, work harder and leave the game sooner.

 

Same word...entirely different concepts.

 

Personally, I can't wait to see the Cubs adopt this approach as a team. I'll finally be a grinderball fan, "the cubs way".

[rocket]

it'll be like 2008's regular season every year, i'm so excited.

[Guest]

it's sort of awesome how well theo is able to articulate what he means without sounding condescending when he's talking to old school types or just people who don't know as much about the new school.

 

i think his use of the word grind there is intentional. he explains his concepts in such a way that they sound appealing to both sides of the fence.

 

just like when he started out by basically saying, "RBI's aren't a terrible stat, they're just..." and then proceeded to explain why RBI's really are a terrible stat in that one video.

[third eye]

it's sort of awesome how well theo is able to articulate what he means without sounding condescending when he's talking to old school types or just people who don't know as much about the new school.

 

i think his use of the word grind there is intentional. he explains his concepts in such a way that they sound appealing to both sides of the fence.

 

just like when he started out by basically saying, "RBI's aren't a terrible stat, they're just..." and then proceeded to explain why RBI's really are a terrible stat in that one video.

 

I think that was the same interview in which he defended JD Drew's production, pointing out in no uncertain terms that the most important thing an offensive player can do is not make outs. Loved hearing that, and I personally don't care if it comes across as condescending. This is why I'm not too concerned about the rumors of Ryno managing the team. Either Sandberg's philosophies on bunting, productive outs, etc, will rule him out as a candidate or Theo will be sufficiently convinced that he wont manage the team with that outdated approach. Either way, I feel confident that the organizational philosophy will come from the top and be reflected throughout the system.

[Mark Priors Calves]

I'm excited for this philosophical change to the offensive approach too. Its clearly going to be stressed at the minor league level and more heavily with new players selected in the 2012 amateur draft. I'm also curious to see if we will see any of these differences with the current major league Cubs.

[BeerHere]

I mentioned this in the manager thread, but thought the concept deserved attention of its own.

 

Theo specifically stressed "grinding the at bats", during his recent interviews. He absolutely does not mean this to advocate small ball, sacrificing, etc.

 

When the White Sox (and others) talk about grinderball or a guy being a grinder, they mean that guy puts maximum effort into the game at all times. It denotes a guy who works really hard.

 

When Theo is talking about grinding at bats, he doesn't mean the same thing. What he's talking about is making the other team work harder. Be patient at the plate, make the opposing pitcher throw more, work harder and leave the game sooner.

 

Same word...entirely different concepts.

 

Personally, I can't wait to see the Cubs adopt this approach as a team. I'll finally be a grinderball fan, "the cubs way".

 

Well said Tim. I couldn't agree more.

[davearm2]

Get ready for 4-hour ballgames, friends ;)

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

I've watched the Yankees do this to pitchers for almost 20 years. OK back to relevant posts...

[CubInOK]

Get ready for 4-hour ballgames, friends ;)

As long as the Cubs are scoring like 7 runs a game. :D

[Guest]

Get ready for 4-hour ballgames, friends ;)

I'll enjoy every minute of those games!

[Guest]

Can't wait!

 

People on sportscenter and MLBnetwork use to bitch about 4 hour Yankee/Red Sox games. It wasn't because they were trying to prolong the games. It was b/c both teams worked counts and fouled pitches off.

 

The only real way to attack a great pitcher is to get his pitch counts up. Teams use to try to do that to Maddux, but his pin-point control thwarted those efforts.

 

Edit: Sorry, did not see the posts above mine before posting.

[Clem Fandango]

Grinderball sounds like a really painful sexual position

[Guest]

Van Dyck embarrassing himself trying to write about stats.

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/ct-spt-1030-theo-epstein-cubs-chicago--20111029,0,2370401.story

 

"Probably the most important thing to do (for a hitter) is not make an out. (If you) hit for extra bases, all the better. (Seeing more pitches) has an effect that builds. … It leads to scoring runs. Scoring runs leads to wins."

 

That's also part of the reason the Red Sox and Yankees play four-plus hour games (perhaps a preview of future days at Wrigley?).

 

In fact, Yankees' MVP candidate Curtis Granderson led all of baseball with 4.44 pitches per appearance (the Red Sox's Pedroia and Kevin Youkilis were ninth and 11th).

 

The top Cub was Pena at 14th, while Barney was 76th, Castro 111th and Soriano 114th. Soriano was actually one spot ahead of the Cardinals' Albert Pujols, just for the purists' enjoyment.

 

Another category for the computer crowd is RC or "runs created," which had three Red Sox in the top 10 in baseball.

 

The top Cub was Ramirez, despite the low number of pitches seen, at 24th. Castro was 35th, Pena 50th and Soriano 129th.

 

And then there's "secondary average," with the Blue Jays' Jose Bautista leading baseball at .571. Granderson was next at .461 and Pena fourth at .442, even though his "real" batting average was .225 and he struck out 161 times.

 

 

hahahaha

 

 

also, he keeps referencing carmine like it's some robot that makes decisions or even evaluations, going as far as to say that matt garza is a "carmine" player

 

IT'S A GOD DAMN DATABASE PROGRAM YOU OLD COOT

[biittner77]

Quit lying to people. Carmine looks just like a Dalek from Dr. Who. And it's eats old people's medicine for fuel!

[Splendid Splinter]

Quit lying to people. Carmine looks just like a Dalek from Dr. Who. And it's eats old people's medicine for fuel!

 

Exterminate! Exterminate! Exterminate!

[El Duderino]

I always thought of carmine as johnny five.

[Guest]

I always thought of carmine as johnny five.

Spock.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

Why does anyone know the name of the Red Sox's database program? Is it one of the things whose reputation has gone up due to the whole Epstein situation?

[Guest]

Why does anyone know the name of the Red Sox's database program? Is it one of the things whose reputation has gone up due to the whole Epstein situation?

 

 

I'm sure the Boston media caught word at some point, but I hadn't heard about it until I read the big piece from SI this September.