Buster Posey hurt in collision at the plate

[XZero771679666304]

Honestly, I don't see the big problem with this. It's Posey's fault he put himself in an awkward position, which is clearly what really caused the injury, not the contact. If he's on balance like he should be, he gets knocked on his ass and that's about it. Being off balance and getting twisted around because of it is why he got hurt. It's a shame he got hurt, but I didn't think the hit was vicious or malicious.

 

 

Whether you think it was right or wrong, you can't deny that was a vicious hit. I cringed watching it for the first time, before I realized Posey had been injured. And while Posey certainly didn't do himself any favors with his positioning, he was probably thinking more about swiping a tag back toward the plate than bracing for a huge collision. In reality, Posey had much less time to assess what was going to happen than Cousins did.

 

Objectively I agree with TT that if some fielders are protected by rule all should be, but I think collisions/blocking at the plate have become so ingrained into the game it would be hard to separate it out. I think there is a perception that catchers can take it because they are wearing pads, but they are hardly invincible out there. These guys (catchers and runners) aren't equipped for heavy contact.

 

We get a rush out of seeing collisions at the plate, but they probably shouldn't be a part of the game.

[Tryptamine]

 

I agree with this. The runner was trying to jar the ball loose, and as soon as he collided with Posey and it became apparent he was hurt, he was right there checking on him to make sure he was ok. That's not something you do if you're intentionally trying to injure someone.

 

 

I don't think Cousins was trying to injure Posey, but I definitely think he made up his mind to blow him up as soon as it was apparent there was going to be a play. I just don't that's appropriate. And the way he hit him was excessive, even if the catcher had the plate blocked, which he didn't.

 

So if he hadn't tried quite as hard to knock the ball loose, that would have been okay?

 

Cousins is running full speed down the line and the only thing he can likely see clearly before he has to decide what he's going to do is that the throw beat him by a mile. Unless he knocks the ball loose or Posey kicks it, he's out. So he used his only option, and it turned out horribly because not only was Posey hurt, he didn't field it cleanly which meant the contact seems unnecessary.

 

That said, Cousins shouldn't have that option available to him. We don't let guys stretching singles into doubles blow up middle infielders before getting a hand on the base, and the same should apply at the plate. However, if you go down that road you have to protect the runner's rights by aggressively calling interference on catchers who try to obstruct runners without the ball.

 

I'm starting to lean this way. I know people love the collisions at the plate, but it's just too dangerous. Many times the catchers aren't even looking and their padding does very little to absorb any of the damage. I'm all for changing the rules on blocking the plate if it keeps catchers from getting absolutely blown up at the discretion of the runner.

[Guest]

Objectively I agree with TT that if some fielders are protected by rule all should be, but I think collisions/blocking at the plate have become so ingrained into the game it would be hard to separate it out. I think there is a perception that catchers can take it because they are wearing pads, but they are hardly invincible out there. These guys (catchers and runners) aren't equipped for heavy contact.

 

We get a rush out of seeing collisions at the plate, but they probably shouldn't be a part of the game.

 

I want to say that collisions at the plate aren't allowed at any other level (i.e. college and below), in which case I don't think it would be hard to weed out. I can't remember seeing it at any UCD games I covered in the past (though that doesn't mean it didn't happen) and I remember seeing a guy blow up a catcher in high school and he was ejected immediately. So if it is outlawed at all other levels, it means that guys aren't taught to drill the catcher until the pro ranks and it seems like it would be easy to just not teach them to do it.

[Tracer Bullet]

tt, tree, you really don't think cousins could see where posey was standing? he was several steps away when posey moved in front of the plate. if he had enough time and mental capacity to say "the ball is going to beat me by a mile" then he's got enough time to see where posey is standing. when you're running toward a base, you're looking down at it every step or two. in this case, he had to see that there was a whole lot of white available. yet he launched himself at posey's front shoulder, across his body, away from the plate.

 

while it's probably true for the national media, i don't care who the catcher is, i could give 2 shits if posey is playing or not, i'm not a giants fan. but this isn't just a guy lowering his shoulder to knock the ball loose. there haven't been many collisions at the plate in my memory where the runner did more than cousins did to make it as violent as possible. and he did so when he had plenty of time to see the entire plate was open behind posey.

[Clem Fandango]

If Jeff Mathis gets railroaded and his leg gets hurt, people go on with their daily lives not giving a crap. Just another part of the game.

 

But since it's Buster Posey the Wunderkind, we need rule changes?

 

No one was calling for a change when Kalish slid into Carlos Santana's leg last year, and that impact looked like a much more blatant attempt at causing injury than this one did.

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=10553045

 

It's part of the game. Always has been, always will be. End of story.

 

I do feel really bad for Buster Posey's agent, though, since his big pay day is going to be delayed a bit now. That's what's keeping me awake at night.

[XZero771679666304]

If Jeff Mathis gets railroaded and his leg gets hurt, people go on with their daily lives not giving a crap. Just another part of the game.

 

But since it's Buster Posey the Wunderkind, we need rule changes?

 

No one was calling for a change when Kalish slid into Carlos Santana's leg last year, and that impact looked like a much more blatant attempt at causing injury than this one did.

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=10553045

 

It's part of the game. Always has been, always will be. End of story.

 

I do feel really bad for Buster Posey's agent, though, since his big pay day is going to be delayed a bit now. That's what's keeping me awake at night.

 

Come on, this is nothing new. Every once in a while you have a situation like this (Pete Rose/Ray Fosse, for one) that gets people really talking about it. And they should. It's one of those issues that people don't think about too much until someone really gets hurt, but it's not just bubbling up now because it was Buster Posey. I think it's one of those things that occurs to people when they see a catcher get laid out, but largely dismiss when they get back up.

 

TT makes a great point, in that if you aren't allowed to blow up the other infielders, you shouldn't be able to blow up the catcher. Nor should catchers be allowed to interfere with runners. Neither catcher or runner are equipped for such high contact.

 

And don't for a second dismiss the idea MLB would make that change. We're seeing rules in the NFL we would never have imagined even 10 years ago, largely to protect the investment of owners. Likewise, with franchise type players like Posey and Mauer cropping up at the position, it's not the least bit unthinkable to see them protected rather than just moved off the position.

 

That wouldn't be the best motivation to make the change, but like the NFL, players are bigger, stronger and faster than ever in MLB, and it would be a rule change for the better. The only reason it has been tolerated for this long is because we love the violence of it, but someone is going to get really screwed up one of these days.

 

Baseball isn't suited to high impact.

[javy knows my name]

If Jeff Mathis gets railroaded and his leg gets hurt, people go on with their daily lives not giving a crap. Just another part of the game.

 

But since it's Buster Posey the Wunderkind, we need rule changes?

 

No one was calling for a change when Kalish slid into Carlos Santana's leg last year, and that impact looked like a much more blatant attempt at causing injury than this one did.

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=10553045

 

It's part of the game. Always has been, always will be. End of story.

 

I do feel really bad for Buster Posey's agent, though, since his big pay day is going to be delayed a bit now. That's what's keeping me awake at night.

 

Yeah, all you really need to know about this comes from Bochy's interview, where he blatantly talks out of both sides of his mouth. The first thing he says is "I was a catcher and I understand it's part of the game" and the next thing he says is "Posey is really popular and we really should protect our guys better out there." It rings so false and damage control-y. Same with that Jeter [expletive]. Nobody would have cared if it had happened to a nobody.

[Guest]

tt, tree, you really don't think cousins could see where posey was standing? he was several steps away when posey moved in front of the plate. if he had enough time and mental capacity to say "the ball is going to beat me by a mile" then he's got enough time to see where posey is standing. when you're running toward a base, you're looking down at it every step or two. in this case, he had to see that there was a whole lot of white available. yet he launched himself at posey's front shoulder, across his body, away from the plate.

 

He's throwing himself at Posey from so far away that he has to know that Posey can move to tag him easily if he has the ball. Either way, you can add "attempt a wide slide on the hope that Posey can't reach him" to the list of his options and the the point doesn't change. Throwing himself into Posey is currently one of his options, and I don't really see why we'd demonize him for throwing himself into Posey too much in that situation.

[erik316wttn]

Objectively I agree with TT that if some fielders are protected by rule all should be, but I think collisions/blocking at the plate have become so ingrained into the game it would be hard to separate it out. I think there is a perception that catchers can take it because they are wearing pads, but they are hardly invincible out there. These guys (catchers and runners) aren't equipped for heavy contact.

 

We get a rush out of seeing collisions at the plate, but they probably shouldn't be a part of the game.

 

I want to say that collisions at the plate aren't allowed at any other level (i.e. college and below), in which case I don't think it would be hard to weed out. I can't remember seeing it at any UCD games I covered in the past (though that doesn't mean it didn't happen) and I remember seeing a guy blow up a catcher in high school and he was ejected immediately. So if it is outlawed at all other levels, it means that guys aren't taught to drill the catcher until the pro ranks and it seems like it would be easy to just not teach them to do it.

 

Are catchers allowed to block the plate without the ball at those levels?

[Tracer Bullet]

tt, tree, you really don't think cousins could see where posey was standing? he was several steps away when posey moved in front of the plate. if he had enough time and mental capacity to say "the ball is going to beat me by a mile" then he's got enough time to see where posey is standing. when you're running toward a base, you're looking down at it every step or two. in this case, he had to see that there was a whole lot of white available. yet he launched himself at posey's front shoulder, across his body, away from the plate.

 

He's throwing himself at Posey from so far away that he has to know that Posey can move to tag him easily if he has the ball. Either way, you can add "attempt a wide slide on the hope that Posey can't reach him" to the list of his options and the the point doesn't change. Throwing himself into Posey is currently one of his options, and I don't really see why we'd demonize him for throwing himself into Posey too much in that situation.

 

it seems to me that throwing yourself into a catcher that isn't blocking the plate (with or without the ball) such that you have to angle yourself away from the plate at launch is worse than plowing over the catcher that's blocking the plate. I'd prefer that blocking the plate without the ball be called, so that blowing up the catcher could likewise no longer be an option. But in the meantime, going out of your way to launch into the catcher b/c you've made up your mind long before that you're going to run him over regardless of where he is can be dealt with independently.

[Illini Iceman]

The Pena play at the plate on the Hill sac fly was a good example of the hyprocricy of turning the Posey injury into an issue about protecting the defenseless catchers. Pena just slid through Doumit but he easily could have just blown him up since he didn't have the ball when Pena got to him and slowed down Pena's slide enough with his leg that he almost was able to make the out. No other infielders would try to stand in front of the base to block the runner before they had the ball.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Objectively I agree with TT that if some fielders are protected by rule all should be, but I think collisions/blocking at the plate have become so ingrained into the game it would be hard to separate it out. I think there is a perception that catchers can take it because they are wearing pads, but they are hardly invincible out there. These guys (catchers and runners) aren't equipped for heavy contact.

 

We get a rush out of seeing collisions at the plate, but they probably shouldn't be a part of the game.

 

I want to say that collisions at the plate aren't allowed at any other level (i.e. college and below), in which case I don't think it would be hard to weed out. I can't remember seeing it at any UCD games I covered in the past (though that doesn't mean it didn't happen) and I remember seeing a guy blow up a catcher in high school and he was ejected immediately. So if it is outlawed at all other levels, it means that guys aren't taught to drill the catcher until the pro ranks and it seems like it would be easy to just not teach them to do it.

 

Are catchers allowed to block the plate without the ball at those levels?

 

I can't speak for all levels, but in Louisiana at the HS level, the catcher is not allowed unless he has the ball. The runner must attempt a slide and is out (and can be ejected) if he lowers his shoulder or initiates excessive contact with a catcher. On the other side, if the catcher obstructs the plate without possession of the ball, the runner will be called safe and the catcher can be ejected within the umpire's discretion.