NFL Week 6

[Guest]

Here's the problem with this logic: in 9 of those 11 losses, Rodgers did everything he should have needed to do. In nine games, the Packers lost because of either a missed field goal or the defense allowing a touchdown drive to end the game.

 

You could argue that Rodgers should have driven them for a touchdown on the drives that Crosby missed a field goal to lose it, but how did Vinatieri gain the reputation of being a clutch kicker? By Brady, whose level you said Rodgers isn't at, setting him up for a field goal and not scoring a touchdown.

 

You can't put a loss on one player in a team game, just like you can't give any single player all or most of the credit for his team winning games.

 

We're getting way too technical here. I am not trying to knock Rodgers, because the guy is a great QB. I'm simply stating that at some point the guy has to take it upon himself to win games if he's going to be among the elite. You can't always rely on a FG kicker or defense to win you a game; sometimes you just have to put the ball in the endzone yourself. By blaming teammates for losing games, you could argue that with a better O-Line and WRs, Cutler could be an elite QB, but no one considers him even close to that. You have to find a way to win and pickup your teammates, and Rodgers has had chances to do that.

 

You could replace every football term in this post with one from baseball and it would look like the same nonsense argument about a pitcher who has great stats but doesn't have as many wins as other guys not being elite.

 

I am not trying to knock Felix Hernandez, because the guy is a great pitcher. I'm simply stating that at some point the guy has to take it upon himself to win games if he's going to be among the elite. You can't always rely on a your offense to score runs or defense to catch the ball to win you a game; sometimes you just have to get guys out yourself.

[hawkeyecub]

Here's the problem with this logic: in 9 of those 11 losses, Rodgers did everything he should have needed to do. In nine games, the Packers lost because of either a missed field goal or the defense allowing a touchdown drive to end the game.

 

You could argue that Rodgers should have driven them for a touchdown on the drives that Crosby missed a field goal to lose it, but how did Vinatieri gain the reputation of being a clutch kicker? By Brady, whose level you said Rodgers isn't at, setting him up for a field goal and not scoring a touchdown.

 

You can't put a loss on one player in a team game, just like you can't give any single player all or most of the credit for his team winning games.

 

We're getting way too technical here. I am not trying to knock Rodgers, because the guy is a great QB. I'm simply stating that at some point the guy has to take it upon himself to win games if he's going to be among the elite. You can't always rely on a FG kicker or defense to win you a game; sometimes you just have to put the ball in the endzone yourself. By blaming teammates for losing games, you could argue that with a better O-Line and WRs, Cutler could be an elite QB, but no one considers him even close to that. You have to find a way to win and pickup your teammates, and Rodgers has had chances to do that.

 

You could replace every football term in this post with one from baseball and it would look like the same nonsense argument about a pitcher who has great stats but doesn't have as many wins as other guys not being elite.

 

I am not trying to knock Felix Hernandez, because the guy is a great pitcher. I'm simply stating that at some point the guy has to take it upon himself to win games if he's going to be among the elite. You can't always rely on a your offense to score runs or defense to catch the ball to win you a game; sometimes you just have to get guys out yourself.

 

You could but it wouldn't make any sense. Not that I fully agree with CBM, but you can't take the statistical approach to baseball that you take to football. I'm open to reading anything and appreciate the effort but the sabermetric mindset can not work in football.

[dew1679666265]

You could but it wouldn't make any sense. Not that I fully agree with CBM, but you can't take the statistical approach to baseball that you take to football. I'm open to reading anything and appreciate the effort but the sabermetric mindset can not work in football.

 

There's nothing sabermetric to the idea that football is an extreme team game where each player is reliant upon another to move the football or stop the opponents.

 

One player can have a huge impact on a game, but even the greats like Peyton, Favre, Montana, Elway, etc. had to have guys block for them, catch the passes and play defense for the team to win games. That's the same reason why a primarily statistical approach doesn't work in football – a player's stats are too heavily dependent on other people doing their job.

 

I don't completely discount the "clutch" idea in football. Some players probably do focus a little better late in games (though they should carry that focus over into the rest of the game as well) and some players don't handle the pressure of a late game well. However, the QBs job is to put his team in position to win the game and, in 9 of those 11 games, Rodgers did that. There are too many other factors (drops, great defense, missed blocks, fumbles, etc) to criticize him for getting his team into field goal position. Now, if he got the team into field goal position and then missed three wide open receivers when he had plenty of time in the pocket and that forced the FG over a TD, then I'll agree that Rodgers didn't do enough. But to criticize him for the defense allowing the game-winning drive or for breakdowns on other parts of the team is unfair to him and inaccurate analysis.

[UMFan83]

Football is the ultimate team sport. If you put someone in the position to kick a game winning FG and he misses it from a spot where its typically made 90+ % of the time, how is that the QBs fault? For not getting the TD? In the Bears game in 2008, I am pretty sure GB attempted a FG because they were in FG range and decided to run down the clock and take the chip shot FG instead of going for the end zone. You mean to tell me it's the QBs fault for that? Would Tom Brady have gone into the huddle and say "Coach wants us to run it up the middle for 2 plays, but I say [expletive] it, I'm a winner and I say we get this in the end zone and give the Bears a minute and 20 seconds to come back down the field."

 

It's only one example but I'm sure there are others. Tom Brady won his first Super Bowl and took his first steps towards his legendary status by leading the Patriots down the field with a few seconds left and.......spiked the ball and brought out his FG unit. If the kicker misses it, is Brady no longer as great of a QB as he is now? You are allowing a kicker to determine the worth of the QB. Doesn't make sense to me.

[JonJayCutler]

Once more, I am not blaming Rodgers for every close game loss, nor am I denying that a lot of winning consists of luck and relying on other players/teammates. I'm simply trying to make the point that winning is not COMPLETELY out of his control like some here are making it sound. I'd just like to see Rodgers lead his troops down the field and engineer a complete game-winning drive once in awhile when it matters most (or maybe I wouldn't since I'm a Bears fan :wink:).

 

But there's not much point in continuing this debate as we've seemed to reach an impasse.