Re: Bears Offseason Thread

[jersey cubs fan]

And now Angelo is already concocting his plan for rolling Lovie and Martz if this doesn't work out......All in all though, I don't hate this myself. I think it's as good as we could expect or hope for, considering our head coach's lame duck status.

 

I know I'm guilty of this myself, but the lame duck description is inaccurate. Lame duck suggests gone no matter what. In politics that's a guy with a term limits problem or in sports a coach on his last year of a contract. Since Lovie is signed through 2011, I think the odds are quite high that if the Bears do well this year, Lovie, and most of the staff, is almost guaranteed to return the next year. If the Bears win 10 games, can you imagine them eating all those millions to go out and get a new guy? The McCaskeys let Jauron go after a 7 win season that followed a 4 win season. They let Wanny go after back to back 4 win seasons. They canned Ditka after a 5 win season. Going into this season I thought maybe 10 losses costs him his job. Now, going into next season I think 9 wins might even be enough to save him. 10 wins is almost a guarantee.

 

Think about it, if the Bears win 10 games next year that almost certainly means playoffs. That probably means the defense has stabilized and maybe improved, and that the offense was showing signs of a life. Even if they make the playoffs and go one and done, can you picture them canning the whole staff? I wouldn't bet that way. I'd think they'd be comfortable with the way things are going and actually adding a year.

 

This would have the effect of aligning Lovie and Angelo on similar contract lengths which could make it easier for a clean break after 2011 or 2012 if things stall.

[Soul]

I think this is the hire that makes the most sense given the landscape.

[hawkeyecub]

I think this is the hire that makes the most sense given the landscape.

 

Like many others, I think this is a high-risk, high-reward move. Though the long-term risk isn't that high because if it doesn't work there's a good chance that everything is blown up for 2011.

 

You guys have read and researched Martz more than I have. Making such a major schematic change into a very complex offense with mostly young WR's (who reportedly struggled to pick up Turner's stuff) seems like it would be difficult to me. Having an offense that's so based in downfield passing seems like it will be difficult to pull off with such a weak offensive line. Given the way Martz tries to break down QB's and build them up in his mold seems like it could have some lasting effects on Cutler if it doesn't work out and he has to start over again in 2011 for the 4th time in 4 years. Martz also doesn't like to roll out his QB's much which seems to play against Cutler's strengths.

 

On the flip side it may be worth taking the risk that he gets the most out of Cutler. If so, you probably win 10 games and have another 3+ years of Lovie.

[hawkeyecub]

Having 3 former NFL head coaches as assistants has to be a record doesn't it?

[jersey cubs fan]

I think this is the hire that makes the most sense given the landscape.

 

Like many others, I think this is a high-risk, high-reward move. Though the long-term risk isn't that high because if it doesn't work there's a good chance that everything is blown up for 2011.

 

You guys have read and researched Martz more than I have. Making such a major schematic change into a very complex offense with mostly young WR's (who reportedly struggled to pick up Turner's stuff) seems like it would be difficult to me. Having an offense that's so based in downfield passing seems like it will be difficult to pull off with such a weak offensive line. Given the way Martz tries to break down QB's and build them up in his mold seems like it could have some lasting effects on Cutler if it doesn't work out and he has to start over again in 2011 for the 4th time in 4 years. Martz also doesn't like to roll out his QB's much which seems to play against Cutler's strengths.

 

On the flip side it may be worth taking the risk that he gets the most out of Cutler. If so, you probably win 10 games and have another 3+ years of Lovie.

 

Turner's system may be bland, but I've heard about it requiring WR to make all sorts of reads before and during the play. Some of the young guys may have struggled to adapt early in their careers, however, the Bears coaches were also slow at letting young guys show something on the field, and these guys aren't rookies anymore. They have experience, and even learning a new system shouldn't be as hard.

[jersey cubs fan]

Having 3 former NFL head coaches as assistants has to be a record doesn't it?

 

I feel like Washington usually has about 5.

[davell]

And now Angelo is already concocting his plan for rolling Lovie and Martz if this doesn't work out......All in all though, I don't hate this myself. I think it's as good as we could expect or hope for, considering our head coach's lame duck status.

 

I know I'm guilty of this myself, but the lame duck description is inaccurate. Lame duck suggests gone no matter what. In politics that's a guy with a term limits problem or in sports a coach on his last year of a contract. Since Lovie is signed through 2011, I think the odds are quite high that if the Bears do well this year, Lovie, and most of the staff, is almost guaranteed to return the next year. If the Bears win 10 games, can you imagine them eating all those millions to go out and get a new guy? The McCaskeys let Jauron go after a 7 win season that followed a 4 win season. They let Wanny go after back to back 4 win seasons. They canned Ditka after a 5 win season. Going into this season I thought maybe 10 losses costs him his job. Now, going into next season I think 9 wins might even be enough to save him. 10 wins is almost a guarantee.

 

Think about it, if the Bears win 10 games next year that almost certainly means playoffs. That probably means the defense has stabilized and maybe improved, and that the offense was showing signs of a life. Even if they make the playoffs and go one and done, can you picture them canning the whole staff? I wouldn't bet that way. I'd think they'd be comfortable with the way things are going and actually adding a year.

 

This would have the effect of aligning Lovie and Angelo on similar contract lengths which could make it easier for a clean break after 2011 or 2012 if things stall.

 

 

You're right. Lame duck isn't really the right wording there. They could turn things around and Lovie could get his final year(maybe even a short extension) possibly. I don't see it happening, but it could very well.

 

My guess though is that we won't be very active in FA, save for adding a few stopgap type linemen, which are hit or (usually) miss. We may add a DB or 2 as well, but I'm not expecting a whole lot. Which then means we'd need to get really lucky through the draft and find some starter types in rounds 3-7. Which at least Angelo HAS done in the past.

 

I hate being pessimistic about the Bears honestly and truly think Cutler was a great longterm move actually. But, I think we'll need this present regime out of here, before we start seeing any real improvement. I hope I'm wrong.

[jersey cubs fan]

You're right. Lame duck isn't really the right wording there. They could turn things around and Lovie could get his final year(maybe even a short extension) possibly. I don't see it happening, but it could very well.

 

My guess though is that we won't be very active in FA, save for adding a few stopgap type linemen, which are hit or (usually) miss. We may add a DB or 2 as well, but I'm not expecting a whole lot. Which then means we'd need to get really lucky through the draft and find some starter types in rounds 3-7. Which at least Angelo HAS done in the past.

 

I hate being pessimistic about the Bears honestly and truly think Cutler was a great longterm move actually. But, I think we'll need this present regime out of here, before we start seeing any real improvement. I hope I'm wrong.

 

The right quarterback can go a long way to overcoming a coaching staff's shortcomings. I'm not sure Tony Dungy would be such a respected super bowl winning coach if he never had Peyton Manning. Shanahan may still owe John Elway (and TD) for the contracts he's signing 12 years after his SB and 5 years removed from the playoffs. Does New England win as much if Drew Bledsoe stays healthy and Tom Brady stays a nobody?

 

For all the negatives, this is still a .500 ballclub that recently added a very talented QB. People talk about them being devoid of talent all the time, but they are not that bad. If Cutler takes the next step and the offense shows some signs of real life, there's no reason why they can't win 10 games and turn into a contender again.

[SpongeWorthy]

There's a good chance Cutler isn't going to be the kind of guy you really ride to championship contention without good talent around him. Manning and Brees have good years left and Cutler is clearly below Rivers and Rodgers. After that you've got a good group in Romo, 'Berger, Schaub, etc. where I think Cutler could slot in if he develops. From that perspective, the rest of the team needs a major infusion of talent. The last draft where he got basically nothing and the lack of picks coming up doesn't augur well.

[jersey cubs fan]

There's a good chance Cutler isn't going to be the kind of guy you really ride to championship contention without good talent around him. Manning and Brees have good years left and Cutler is clearly below Rivers and Rodgers. After that you've got a good group in Romo, 'Berger, Schaub, etc. where I think Cutler could slot in if he develops. From that perspective, the rest of the team needs a major infusion of talent. The last draft where he got basically nothing and the lack of picks coming up doesn't augur well.

 

It's nearly impossible to judge a Bears draft one year in, since the coaches pigeon hole guys into can't play yet status. They got Knox who is a player. Afalava who can contribute, and a couple other guys that could do more if given the chance.

 

I think Cutler is already in that 2nd group you mentioned, and he's got more upside than any of them. He could easily be at the level of Rivers and Rodgers within a year or two if things go right. Manning and Brees are 31 and 33 and have just 3 SB appearances between them in 21 combined seasons. It's not like they have a strangehold on contention.

 

Chicago does need more talent, that's not in question, but their lack of talent is overblown, and they have a QB talented enough to be in the discussion every year.

[SpongeWorthy]

It would be a minor miracle if Cutler were as good as Rivers and Rodgers within the next couple years. You can put their two year stretch against basically any QB that has ever played.

[jersey cubs fan]

It would be a minor miracle if Cutler were as good as Rivers and Rodgers within the next couple years. You can put their two year stretch against basically any QB that has ever played.

 

I would not be surprised if it happened, and therefore can't consider it a minor miracle.

[Magnetic Curses]

It would be a minor miracle if Cutler were as good as Rivers and Rodgers within the next couple years. You can put their two year stretch against basically any QB that has ever played.

 

I would not be surprised if it happened, and therefore can't consider it a minor miracle.

 

yeah, i don't know why it's such a huge stretch to think that cutler is in their league in terms of talent level. i think he's more than capable of putting up those type of numbers. he's got a better arm than either of them and moves just as well as rodgers. it's said that he's smart, so let's see what he can do if we protect him and he plays in a more advanced system.

[SpongeWorthy]

Accuracy and decision making are so much more important as to almost render arm strength and mobility moot. If you're accurate and quick/smart you can still be elite with below average mobility and an average arm. Although Rodgers does have a gun himself and moves really well.

 

I don't see that hyper accuracy and quick thinking coming out of Cutler. He'll improve but I don't think to the degree necessary to be an undisputed top 5 guy in the league. There's just too many boneheaded decisions.

[Tyrant]

Accuracy and decision making are so much more important as to almost render arm strength and mobility moot.

 

If you want to see a smart, accurate QB without arm strength, look at Chad Pennington. That's about the upside of an NFL QB with a weak arm.

[SpongeWorthy]

If you want to look at a QB who can throw the ball through a brick wall and outrun DBs then look at Michael Vick.

 

Interestingly, I'd say Vick and Pennington have had similarly productive careers. Anyway, I wasn't trying to insinuate that you could get by with a Penningtonesque noodle arm but it doesn't need to be a Laser. Rocket arm.

 

Drew Brees for example is short as [expletive] for a QB, isn't going to wow anyone with his arm strength, and isn't particularly mobile. But he's absurdly accurate and is a great decision maker.

[Magnetic Curses]

Accuracy and decision making are so much more important as to almost render arm strength and mobility moot.

 

yeah, wrong. there are quite a few very accurate and smart college qbs out there selling insurance right now. pro scouts look for guys with arm strength and mobility just as much as anything else, and cutler wasn't taken where he was taken because it was perceived that he could simply throw a ball through a brick wall, he was taken because he could throw it through a bulletproof window in the brick wall.

 

 

If you're accurate and quick/smart you can still be elite with below average mobility and an average arm. Although Rodgers does have a gun himself and moves really well.

 

rodgers has the deepest receiver corps in the nfl. sure, he has a great arm, not as great as cutler's, probably not even as accurate, but he has receivers that know where to run to and don't just make up their own routes half through them. how many int's did knox himself cost cutler this year? hester? those guys simply weren't big enough or good enough to make the amount of route mistakes they made last year. hopefully, knox figures it out because he could be a good one.

 

the green bay receivers were good enough to make up for the line early in the year and rivers never had line issues and his recievers are [expletive] yetis that run their routes without improvising unless they're telepathic.

 

I don't see that hyper accuracy and quick thinking coming out of Cutler. He'll improve but I don't think to the degree necessary to be an undisputed top 5 guy in the league. There's just too many boneheaded decisions.

 

i just don't know how you have enough info to judge this. the receivers and the line were terrible, the pass blocking sucked and the receivers were operating under their own rules.

[SpongeWorthy]

Cutler just made way too many utterly baffling decisions that wouldn't be out of place in a YouTube video entitled: Rex Grossman NFL Mixtape for me to be completely sold on him moving forward.

 

Independent of the atrocious receiver and line play, there's still a lot there to be worried about.

[Magnetic Curses]

like i said, i don't know how you can judge his decision-making when he has no time to throw and his receivers are short and dumb.

 

did cutler actually just throw the ball right to a defender on purpose or did the reciver break the exact opposite way he was supposed to, lose interest in running the route, or was he in the process of blocking because he thought they called a run? this is totally ignoring the fact that he had no time to throw.

 

i think cutler did amazingly well considering the circumstances. he was the bears last year. it's hard to imagine rodgers doing any better with the bears and i'm absolutely sure rivers would be so emotionally rattled by the experience that he might not ever shotput another football again, he'd give up the game.

[David]

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/02/martz-on-his-fit-with-bears-its-about-winning-games.html

 

Interview with Martz from the Tribune.

 

Some tidbits...

 

On his meeting with Jay Cutler on Saturday in Nashville, Tenn.:

"It was even better than I anticipated. There was an instant connection. You know, that happened to me and (former Lions quarterback) Jon Kitna the first time I met him.

 

"This was really interesting because we just were on the same page in so many things. In fact, I really got excited. We were in a little classroom down there at Vanderbilt, and we were just kind of talking football. And he asked about special plays. I put a play up that was designed specifically for the Tampa Cover-2. I told him this is how we put it in, ran it through, hit a touchdown on it. He asked a question about that play, a wide-receiver split, that kind of just stopped me dead in my tracks. It just showed that he's so far ahead and on top of this type of thing, that veteran quarterbacks generally don't even asked that.

 

"We had a real good dinner. Enjoyed each other's company. It was a good chance just to kind of get acquainted."

 

On how long it will take to get everything installed:

"We will be hitting on all cylinders on opening day, I can promise you that. There is character in this group; I know the kind of people that Lovie brings in. With the coaches that are in place already with Darryl (Drake), Tim (Spencer) and Mike (Tice), the challenges ahead are just getting them the information they need to do to really get all the little details coached on a regular basis and we'll be ready to go. They'll want to learn it, and that's the biggest part of all that, is the willingness to accept it to learn what you need and this is certainly that kind of group."

 

On how he might use the Bears' receivers:

"Well, they've got some speed. And that really is kind of a diamond to me. When you look at that group, it could be a real strength of this football team. With (Devin) Aromashodu -- I hope I pronounced it right. (Johnny) Knox is really a diamond to me. And Hester, with what he can do whether he's outside or in the slot. The matchups on these guys are extreme.

 

"When I went to St. Louis from Washington, Isaac Bruce was too skinny. They weren't too happy with him. He was always hurt. Had this little guy, Az Hakim, and they didn't know what they were going to do with him. Rick Proehl, slow white guy. This is three-quarters of the Greatest Show on Turf.

 

"And really, what we'll do with these guys, I think there's plenty of talent there. I'm really excited about their speed and the potential. And what we'll do is give them every opportunity to explore that and not make a definition on what any one of those guys can do, but let them prove to us and put no limits on them."

[David]

like i said, i don't know how you can judge his decision-making when he has no time to throw and his receivers are short and dumb.

 

did cutler actually just throw the ball right to a defender on purpose or did the reciver break the exact opposite way he was supposed to, lose interest in running the route, or was he in the process of blocking because he thought they called a run? this is totally ignoring the fact that he had no time to throw.

 

i think cutler did amazingly well considering the circumstances. he was the bears last year. it's hard to imagine rodgers doing any better with the bears and i'm absolutely sure rivers would be so emotionally rattled by the experience that he might not ever shotput another football again, he'd give up the game.

 

 

i'm with you 100% on this, (except the rivers hate...)

[SpongeWorthy]

Cutler did amazingly well? Come on man. You're letting the last two weeks of solid play cloud your judgment. He consistently made horrible decisions for most of the season.

 

Rodgers is a guy who did amazingly well with porous protection. He was sacked 50 times! Cutler is a guy who had his flaws exposed because of porous protection.

 

And it's not like Cutler didn't make his fair share of crappy decisions in Denver. He was still the league leader in red zone INTs when he had an amazing offensive line and good weapons. It was one of the concerns coming into this season.

 

I'll grant most everything you said about the players around him...there's still a lot there. It was a free for all: red zone picks, final drive picks, several picks by defensive linemen. I'm not saying I wouldn't have done the trade...I'm just submitting I'm not entirely sold on him being an elite QB. There's a lot to fix.

[David]

hahahahahhaha on the slow white guy reference (re: ricky proehl)

[SpongeWorthy]

Well I don't want to nitpick a fluff piece interview but Bruce was already damn good when Martz got there and Holt is a hall of famer. I did forget Az Hakim though...they did some nifty things with him in that offense.

 

I wonder what he thinks of Forte.

[brinoch]

I will admit that I'm beginning to develop some excitement about Martz as the OC. His responses, particularly about the OL, are really spot-on.