Re: 2009-10 Chicago Bulls Thread

[SpongeWorthy]

The last time the Bulls went into a big free agent market they had just come off a dreadful year in Brand and Artest's rookie year and they came away with like Eddie Robinson when Hill and TMac were on the market. They both went to an Orlando team that STARTED Tariq Abdul Wahad, John Amaechi, Chucky Atkins, Darrell Armstrong, and a young Ben Wallace. That team scrapped its way to a .500 record and just missed the playoffs while the Bulls went 17-65.

 

Now Krause probably poisoned the well so badly that no one worth a damn would've wanted to come here but we didn't even stand a chance against Orlando. Competitiveness matters.

[Sammy Sofa]

The last time the Bulls went into a big free agent market they had just come off a dreadful year in Brand and Artest's rookie year and they came away with like Eddie Robinson when Hill and TMac were on the market. They both went to an Orlando team that STARTED Tariq Abdul Wahad, John Amaechi, Chucky Atkins, Darrell Armstrong, and a young Ben Wallace. That team scrapped its way to a .500 record and just missed the playoffs while the Bulls went 17-65.

 

Now Krause probably poisoned the well so badly that no one worth a damn would've wanted to come here but we didn't even stand a chance against Orlando. Competitiveness matters.

 

So the Bulls have to trick the FA's into thinking they have a good team? Because they don't have a good team. So if you really believe what you're spouting, you're cruising for a letdown since the Bulls are not a good team. They managed to get hot at the right time last year and faced a beat up Celtics team. They're not good, and they weren't good. They're mediocre at best.

[SpongeWorthy]

What I'm saying is that we lost out on two superstar free agents to a team that would've been totally forgotten by everyone if its starting center hadn't become the first athlete in a major American pro sport to publicly out himself as a homosexual.

[17 Seconds]

The last time the Bulls went into a big free agent market they had just come off a dreadful year in Brand and Artest's rookie year and they came away with like Eddie Robinson when Hill and TMac were on the market. They both went to an Orlando team that STARTED Tariq Abdul Wahad, John Amaechi, Chucky Atkins, Darrell Armstrong, and a young Ben Wallace. That team scrapped its way to a .500 record and just missed the playoffs while the Bulls went 17-65.

 

Now Krause probably poisoned the well so badly that no one worth a damn would've wanted to come here but we didn't even stand a chance against Orlando. Competitiveness matters.

 

competetiveness does matter. the difference between an 8th seed and a 9th seed doesn't matter.

 

you act like them making the playoffs suddenly makes them a different team than if they finish 9th or 10th.

 

the quality/talent level of this team is what it is. a playoff berth doesn't change it.

[SpongeWorthy]

The Bulls are the 6th seed currently and only 3 games out of 5th. But they're only a 1.5 out of 9th too. The range is smaller than you're making it out to be.

[SpongeWorthy]

Nice D on that possession.

[Sammy Sofa]

What I'm saying is that we lost out on two superstar free agents to a team that would've been totally forgotten by everyone if its starting center hadn't become the first athlete in a major American pro sport to publicly out himself as a homosexual.

 

And what I'm saying is it's ridiculous to act like the same thing is going to happen now. FA's aren't going to suddenly tun on the Bulls because Salmons and Hinirch (hopefully) and Tyrus are gone.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Sammy Sofa

[Sammy Sofa]

The Bulls are the 6th seed currently and only 3 games out of 5th. But they're only a 1.5 out of 9th too. The range is smaller than you're making it out to be.

 

And it's not nearly as huge a difference as you make it out to be.

[17 Seconds]

The Bulls are the 6th seed currently and only 3 games out of 5th. But they're only a 1.5 out of 9th too. The range is smaller than you're making it out to be.

 

you're kind of making my point for me.

 

the difference between being a 5th seed and a 9th seed is that small..... but you're acting like a free agent would make his decision based on that.

 

"i don't know man.... the bulls were 2 games under .500 and a 9th seed. the heat were 2 games over .500 and a 6 seed! that settles it.. im going to miami"

[SpongeWorthy]

What I'm saying is that we lost out on two superstar free agents to a team that would've been totally forgotten by everyone if its starting center hadn't become the first athlete in a major American pro sport to publicly out himself as a homosexual.

 

And what I'm saying is it's ridiculous to act like the same thing is going to happen now. FA's aren't going to suddenly tun on the Bulls because Salmons and Hinirch (hopefully) and Tyrus are gone.

 

If you totally gut the team and get no viable player in return to pick up some of the slack, even only as a half year rental, you could easily see the Bulls slump into 10th place or worse and end the season on a prolonged down stretch. It wouldn't look good.

 

That's why I was all go for a trade involving Allen, TMac, or even someone like Redick. The ideal scenario is to clear enough room to sign two max guys (or at least one max guy and another good player) while still remaining in this group with Toronto, Miami, and Charlotte in the standings. I'm not saying we should hold onto Hinrich just to stay there but it would be a good selling point RELATIVE to the dreck that is the Nets and Knicks.

[Sammy Sofa]

That would be pointless. You're not going to budge, but you're vastly overstating the difference between the Bulls now and a "gutted" Bulls minus several average at best players. They still have their most important players, which is what's going to matter most to anyone they sign besides the money.

[SpongeWorthy]

If you could evaporate Salmons, Hinrich, and Thomas you're looking at a pretty bad team man. Not because those guys are so great but you'd be giving those minutes to some combination of Jannero Pargo, James Johnson, Devin Brown, and Chris Richard. It would be ugly.

[17 Seconds]

seriously. after money, these FAs are going to be looking at market and supporting cast (the bulls are very attractive in both regards). theyre not going to care about playoff seeding.

[17 Seconds]

If you could evaporate Salmons, Hinrich, and Thomas you're looking at a pretty bad team man. Not because those guys are so great but you'd be giving those minutes to some combination of Jannero Pargo, James Johnson, Devin Brown, and Chris Richard. It would be ugly.

 

and you think these free agent players are too stupid to realize that the reason those guys got minutes and brought the team down was to clear cap space for them?

 

reaching

[Sammy Sofa]

If you could evaporate Salmons, Hinrich, and Thomas you're looking at a pretty bad team man. Not because those guys are so great but you'd be giving those minutes to some combination of Jannero Pargo, James Johnson, Devin Brown, and Chris Richard. It would be ugly.

 

You're looking at a bad team with them. You're making up these ridiculous scenarios to justify propping up things that are probably waaaaaay down on a FA's list of what is going to make them decide for or against a team. The most important things is that Bulls are a big market, they have the money and they have a good young core with Deng, Rose, Noah and Gibson. They'll hopefully have enough money to sign a big FA and also another impact player. They'll have their draft picks. Trust me, shedding some average players that causes a team that is bad right now do worse when it's obvious that this is happening just to make room for GOOD players isn't going to drive away the FA's. You're being paranoid over this.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Sammy Sofa

[SpongeWorthy]

seriously. after money, these FAs are going to be looking at market and supporting cast (the bulls are very attractive in both regards). theyre not going to care about playoff seeding.

 

You're separating the quality of the supporting cast from the team's record which doesn't make any sense. The record is a reflection of the talent, unless you think Vinny is working miracles here.

[Soul]

I think when a team tanks it reflects on everything, and even those key players don't look so attractive as they did when wins were being racked up. Maybe it's not the only factor, but it exists.

[17 Seconds]

I think when a team tanks it reflects on everything, and even those key players don't look so attractive as they did when wins were being racked up. Maybe it's not the only factor, but it exists.

 

salmons/tyrus/hinrich are not the difference between a playoff berth and tanking.

[SpongeWorthy]

If you could evaporate Salmons, Hinrich, and Thomas you're looking at a pretty bad team man. Not because those guys are so great but you'd be giving those minutes to some combination of Jannero Pargo, James Johnson, Devin Brown, and Chris Richard. It would be ugly.

 

You're looking at a bad team with them.

 

I think this is a 45 win team as currently constructed. The schedule is pretty soft from here on out. It's not THAT bad a team.

[Wilson A2000]

Looks like Salmons going to the Bucks in exchange for Kurt Thomas. The Bulls will be $20 million under the cap next year.

[Sammy Sofa]

"Man, I was gonna sign with the Bulls but then they opted to trade Salmons/Hinirch! [expletive] this! I don't care if it does free up money to sign a player much more useful than Salmons/Hinrich! You fucked up, Bulls!"

 

This is such a ridiculous, self-defeating debate. THE BULLS ARE NOT A GOOD TEAM RIGHT NOW. No FA with half a functioning brain is thinking that they'll only come here if the Bulls hang on to some combination of Tyrus, Hinrich or Salmons when it's clear to everyone that the Bulls are making room to add players MUCH better than any of those three.

[17 Seconds]

If you could evaporate Salmons, Hinrich, and Thomas you're looking at a pretty bad team man. Not because those guys are so great but you'd be giving those minutes to some combination of Jannero Pargo, James Johnson, Devin Brown, and Chris Richard. It would be ugly.

 

You're looking at a bad team with them.

 

I think this is a 45 win team as currently constructed. The schedule is pretty soft from here on out. It's not THAT bad a team.

 

if you think the schedule takes this team to a 45 win season, then you should also think it takes a crappy team to a mediocre record.

[17 Seconds]

"Man, I was gonna sign with the Bulls but then they opted to trade Salmons/Hinirch! [expletive] this! I don't care if it does free up money to sign a player much more useful than Salmons/Hinrich! You [expletive] up, Bulls!"

 

seriously. the argument being made is basically that the free agents care enough about the team to factor it in to their decision, but don't care enough about it to do 5 minutes of research on the team to see how they got the record they had.

[SpongeWorthy]

I think when a team tanks it reflects on everything, and even those key players don't look so attractive as they did when wins were being racked up. Maybe it's not the only factor, but it exists.

 

salmons/tyrus/hinrich are not the difference between a playoff berth and tanking.

 

When Salmons and Hinrich TRULY sucked at the beginning of the year and Tyrus was hurt this was legitimately one of the worst teams in the NBA. Basically Johnson, Pargo, Brown, et. al. are going to give you early Kirk/Salmons level of suck and if you have no Tyrus either you're looking at a really bad product. Probably better than that early season funk because Rose is rocking but still awful.

[Sammy Sofa]

If you could evaporate Salmons, Hinrich, and Thomas you're looking at a pretty bad team man. Not because those guys are so great but you'd be giving those minutes to some combination of Jannero Pargo, James Johnson, Devin Brown, and Chris Richard. It would be ugly.

 

You're looking at a bad team with them.

 

I think this is a 45 win team as currently constructed. The schedule is pretty soft from here on out. It's not THAT bad a team.

 

They're a very average team at best with a few bright spots here or there. Pointing out the relative ease of their schedule is not helping any argument that this team is good.

 

There's only a few players on this team that FA's are going to give a [expletive] about, and none of them are the guys the Bulls are trying to trade and the ones that matter will all be here for the forseeable future.