This Team Needs Alfonso Soriano

[dew1679666265]

He came up in the Yankees' system and started for them for three seasons. He was also their leadoff hitter for two of those seasons.

Oh come on. You say it as if I didn't know that. I'm just saying, there's a reason why the Yanks didn't hang onto him.

 

The fact that he came all the way up through their system and reached the majors means they valued his skill set. Otherwise they would have looked to deal him at the first opportunity possible while he was still in the minors.

 

And Vance is right as to why they traded him. They didn't give him up for nothing, they wanted to get ARod. They weren't going to just dump him and there were rumors once Soriano went to Texas that the Red Sox might have an interest in him.

[CyHawk_Cub]

Yes, yes...Sori completes me

[rocket]

Oh come on. You say it as if I didn't know that. I'm just saying, there's a reason why the Yanks didn't hang onto him.

 

because the yankees were willing to trade him for the best player in baseball.

[Cubbie Swagger]

I bet if you asked the Yankees to take Soriano back, they would laugh at you. Even for less money. And even if Sean Marshall was their starting left fielder.

[17 Seconds]

He came up in the Yankees' system and started for them for three seasons. He was also their leadoff hitter for two of those seasons.

Oh come on. You say it as if I didn't know that. I'm just saying, there's a reason why the Yanks didn't hang onto him.

 

Yeah, his name is Alex Rodriguez

[Soul]

Dude. Cubs and Clippers. That's Summer AND Winter misery.

 

Give this poor guy a break.

 

If your Dad did this to you, there's a case for child abuse here.

[dew1679666265]

I bet if you asked the Yankees to take Soriano back, they would laugh at you. Even for less money. And even if Sean Marshall was their starting left fielder.

 

The way he's performing this season, you're probably right.

 

But if Brian Cashman laughed at an offer of a guy who's OPSd .911, .897 and .876 the last three seasons and had to give up nothing, I don't suppose the Steinbrenners would approve.

 

Soriano has been a very good player up to this point in his career. Any team would have happily taken his production from 2002 through 2008.

[Cubbie Swagger]

He came up in the Yankees' system and started for them for three seasons. He was also their leadoff hitter for two of those seasons.

Oh come on. You say it as if I didn't know that. I'm just saying, there's a reason why the Yanks didn't hang onto him.

 

Yeah, his name is Alex Rodriguez

How many people are gonna say that? Seriously? I'm well aware.

 

When the Cubs first signed Soriano, honestly, I was really excited. I liked his numbers, and I felt that we needed a big-name bat. We hadn't really had anyone that was a household name since Sosa, and I thought it would be a good thing for us as a franchise.

 

However, after watching the guy play every single day, I've changed my mind entirely (in case you couldn't tell :grin: ). I'd also like to add that I'm not one of the ones that jumped on the bandwagon during his recent slump. I've been hating on him since the beginning of 08. I could list off all the reasons, but you've heard most of them before from everyone else who bitches about him here on the forum.

 

I certainly don't mind his hot streaks, though, where he decides to string together several multi-homer games per week. That is, of course, as long as he's hitting in the middle of the order so there are actually people on base 8-) That's another issue that has been thoroughly beaten to death, though.

[17 Seconds]

He came up in the Yankees' system and started for them for three seasons. He was also their leadoff hitter for two of those seasons.

Oh come on. You say it as if I didn't know that. I'm just saying, there's a reason why the Yanks didn't hang onto him.

 

Yeah, his name is Alex Rodriguez

How many people are gonna say that? Seriously? I'm well aware.

 

When the Cubs first signed Soriano, honestly, I was really excited. I liked his numbers, and I felt that we needed a big-name bat. We hadn't really had anyone that was a household name since Sosa, and I thought it would be a good thing for us as a franchise.

 

However, after watching the guy play every single day, I've changed my mind entirely (in case you couldn't tell :grin: ). I'd also like to add that I'm not one of the ones that jumped on the bandwagon during his recent slump. I've been hating on him since the beginning of 08. I could list off all the reasons, but you've heard most of them before from everyone else who bitches about him here on the forum.

 

I certainly don't mind his hot streaks, though, where he decides to string together several multi-homer games per week. That is, of course, as long as he's hitting in the middle of the order so there are actually people on base 8-) That's another issue that has been thoroughly beaten to death, though.

 

I just don't understand why you're acting like everybody here loves Soriano. If you polled this board with the question "would you dump Soriano if all you got in return was getting rid of his contract", the vast majority of the posters here would say yes. We're well aware of all his flaws and we all know how awful his contract is. We understand the situation.

 

And if you didn't want to hear the real answer (of why the yankees got rid of Soriano) then you shouldn't have implied something else.

[Cubbie Swagger]

I just don't understand why you're acting like everybody here loves Soriano. If you polled this board with the question "would you dump Soriano if all you got in return was getting rid of his contract", the vast majority of the posters here would say yes. We're well aware of all his flaws and we all know how awful his contract is. We understand the situation.

Probably because every time I make a comment about how he sucks, or about how he is not a legit lead-off hitter, suddenly all the Soriano fans pop out of nowhere and defend him. Then again, this is a message board, so that tends to happen.

 

And if you didn't want to hear the real answer (of why the yankees got rid of Soriano) then you shouldn't have implied something else.

I don't remember asking who Soriano was traded for. I was well aware of that. I was simply saying that the Yankees didn't think he was the best thing since sliced bread, because he's not. I realize what you guys are saying, though. Pretty much anyone is tradable when ARod is involved.

[inari]

I just don't understand why you're acting like everybody here loves Soriano. If you polled this board with the question "would you dump Soriano if all you got in return was getting rid of his contract", the vast majority of the posters here would say yes. We're well aware of all his flaws and we all know how awful his contract is. We understand the situation.

Probably because every time I make a comment about how he sucks, or about how he is not a legit lead-off hitter, suddenly all the Soriano fans pop out of nowhere and defend him. Then again, this is a message board, so that tends to happen.

 

Well saying he sucks is pretty much wrong, so should it be that surprising that someone would constantly come to argue against such a statement? I could say Jamie Foxx is an awesome rapper, but I'd expect someone to give me a slap in the face in the form of "hey, he actually sucks at rapping, and here's why..."

[reds44]

I still want to know what a "slugster" is.

[17 Seconds]

Probably because every time I make a comment about how he sucks, or about how he is not a legit lead-off hitter, suddenly all the Soriano fans pop out of nowhere and defend him. Then again, this is a message board, so that tends to happen.

 

See, that's where you're mistaken. You're making it out to sound like we all love Soriano and that's why we're criticizing your statements. It's not that at all. It's because your statements are mostly inaccurate.Most of the people criticizing your statements about Soriano are the same people who hate his contract, think he's a highly overrated, and would jump at the opportunity to ship him off if it meant getting rid of the albatross contract.

 

Saying "he sucks" is just an invitation to get bashed. Soriano has sucked this year, but when he's putting up the typical numbers he has put up over the last several years, he certainly does not suck. An .880-.900 is not sucking, period.

 

And I don't think anybody is saying he's a great "leadoff hitter" (if we're pretending it's a position, which it's not). They're simply saying it doesn't matter that much. I'd rather have an OBP guy there, but it really does not make a big difference.

[Guest]

Probably because every time I make a comment about how he sucks, or about how he is not a legit lead-off hitter, suddenly all the Soriano fans pop out of nowhere and defend him. Then again, this is a message board, so that tends to happen.

 

See, that's where you're mistaken. You're making it out to sound like we all love Soriano and that's why we're criticizing your statements. It's not that at all. It's because your statements are mostly inaccurate.Most of the people criticizing your statements about Soriano are the same people who hate his contract, think he's a highly overrated, and would jump at the opportunity to ship him off if it meant getting rid of the albatross contract.

 

Saying "he sucks" is just an invitation to get bashed. Soriano has sucked this year, but when he's putting up the typical numbers he has put up over the last several years, he certainly does not suck. An .880-.900 is not sucking, period.

 

And I don't think anybody is saying he's a great "leadoff hitter" (if we're pretending it's a position, which it's not). They're simply saying it doesn't matter that much. I'd rather have an OBP guy there, but it really does not make a big difference.

 

Exactly. The Cubs led the NL in runs scored last year with Soriano batting first.

[Cubbie Swagger]

And I don't think anybody is saying he's a great "leadoff hitter" (if we're pretending it's a position, which it's not). They're simply saying it doesn't matter that much. I'd rather have an OBP guy there, but it really does not make a big difference.

I have people telling me all the time that when Soriano is hitting well, he's a great lead-off hitter. My point is that it doesn't matter if he is slumping or if he's hot, he still should not hit leadoff.

 

Exactly. The Cubs led the NL in runs scored last year with Soriano batting first.

That's because if the rest of your lineup is awesome, then realistically it doesn't matter much. People are gonna knock in runs either way. However, if your offense isn't scoring runs, then the lineup itself is more crucial because a run here or there can make a big difference. IMHO.

[17 Seconds]

Changing one spot in the lineup is never crucial.

[Cubbie Swagger]

Changing one spot in the lineup is never crucial.

I would have to disagree. The difference between Soriano hitting a solo homer or a 3-run homer can be the difference between winning and losing a close game. And if your leadoff man gets on base an extra time or two, that can be the difference in a close game, as well. Not to mention, considering our pitching, most of our games are pretty close.

Edited July 22, 2009 by Cubbie Swagger

[Derwood]

Changing one spot in the lineup is never crucial.

I would have to disagree. The difference between Soriano hitting a solo homer or a 3-run home can be the difference between winning and losing a close game. And if your leadoff man gets on base an extra time or two, that can be the difference in a close game, as well. Not to mention, considering our pitching, most of our games are pretty close.

 

so batting 1st in the batting order prevents you from hitting 3 run homers?

[Cubbie Swagger]

Changing one spot in the lineup is never crucial.

I would have to disagree. The difference between Soriano hitting a solo homer or a 3-run home can be the difference between winning and losing a close game. And if your leadoff man gets on base an extra time or two, that can be the difference in a close game, as well. Not to mention, considering our pitching, most of our games are pretty close.

 

so batting 1st in the batting order prevents you from hitting 3 run homers?

It strongly decreases the odds of it happening. I think it's impossible to argue otherwise. The bottom of the lineup is going to be on base much less often than the top.

 

EDIT: And have you noticed that since Soriano was moved down, both of his home runs have come with people on base? And that they made a large impact on the game?

[dew1679666265]

Changing one spot in the lineup is never crucial.

I would have to disagree. The difference between Soriano hitting a solo homer or a 3-run home can be the difference between winning and losing a close game. And if your leadoff man gets on base an extra time or two, that can be the difference in a close game, as well. Not to mention, considering our pitching, most of our games are pretty close.

 

so batting 1st in the batting order prevents you from hitting 3 run homers?

It strongly decreases the odds of it happening. I think it's impossible to argue otherwise. The bottom of the lineup is going to be on base much less often than the top.

 

The lower in the order Soriano hits, the fewer at bats he gets over the course of a season, though. He played 30 fewer games than Soto last year, yet had just 41 fewer ABs. When Soriano is going good it's ideal to get as many ABs from him as possible and putting him at the top of the order does that.

[Cubbie Swagger]

The lower in the order Soriano hits, the fewer at bats he gets over the course of a season, though. He played 30 fewer games than Soto last year, yet had just 41 fewer ABs. When Soriano is going good it's ideal to get as many ABs from him as possible and putting him at the top of the order does that.

I guess my point would be that there are other people on the team I'd rather see getting as many AB's as possible. But if Soriano absolutely needs to have more AB's, hit him 3rd.

[Old Style]

Changing one spot in the lineup is never crucial.

I would have to disagree. The difference between Soriano hitting a solo homer or a 3-run home can be the difference between winning and losing a close game. And if your leadoff man gets on base an extra time or two, that can be the difference in a close game, as well. Not to mention, considering our pitching, most of our games are pretty close.

 

so batting 1st in the batting order prevents you from hitting 3 run homers?

It strongly decreases the odds of it happening. I think it's impossible to argue otherwise. The bottom of the lineup is going to be on base much less often than the top.

 

The lower in the order Soriano hits, the fewer at bats he gets over the course of a season, though. He played 30 fewer games than Soto last year, yet had just 41 fewer ABs. When Soriano is going good it's ideal to get as many ABs from him as possible and putting him at the top of the order does that.

So Pujols should be a leadoff man, too?

[17 Seconds]

Pujols has proven he can be productive in the middle of the lineup. Soriano has not.

 

I really thought the "Soriano hitting leadoff is counterproductive to scoring runs" stuff would stop after we led the league in runs last year. Guess not.

[dew1679666265]

The lower in the order Soriano hits, the fewer at bats he gets over the course of a season, though. He played 30 fewer games than Soto last year, yet had just 41 fewer ABs. When Soriano is going good it's ideal to get as many ABs from him as possible and putting him at the top of the order does that.

I guess my point would be that there are other people on the team I'd rather see getting as many AB's as possible. But if Soriano absolutely needs to have more AB's, hit him 3rd.

 

If there are better players than Soriano who should get more ABs, then I'm all for moving them up in the order. It's not the best of ideas to move Soriano down to fifth or sixth just to get a traditional leadoff hitter at the top of the order.

[Cubbie Swagger]

So Pujols should be a leadoff man, too?

I've posed the same question. When people say that Soriano should hit leadoff because he needs more at bats, or because he scores runs... it just doesn't make sense. With that logic, guys like Adam Dunn and Pujols would be great leadoff hitters, because not only do they fit those two criteria, but they also excel at the most important aspect of leading off: getting on base.

 

Pujols has proven he can be productive in the middle of the lineup. Soriano has not.

 

I really thought the "Soriano hitting leadoff is counterproductive to scoring runs" stuff would stop after we led the league in runs last year. Guess not.

First of all, there is no logical reason whatsoever why Soriano would only be able to produce hitting first, and not in the middle of the lineup. Other than him whining and pouting.

 

And as I said, it didn't matter last year. Our entire lineup 1-8 (and sometimes even 1-9) was producing on a regular basis. Everyone was getting on base, everyone was driving in runs, etc. So it really didn't matter whether or not Soriano did anything offensively.