Larry Rothschild -- How long is the leash?

[Three Finger]

I'm not sure if this is a topic that comes up much around here (newbie), but I have to ask the general opinion on the quality of work that Larry Rothschild has done as the pitching coach for the Cubs. Without doing too much digging into statistics, my gut says that each year our pitching has been below expectations-- all these starting rotations that have seemed great on paper have failed to click, and the only young pitcher to come up and succeed under Rothschild as far as I can see is Carlos Marmol, who hasn't been phenomenal lately.

 

Although you cannot put injury issues sorely on the pitching coach's shoulders, I think he definitely has to answer for it a little. Isn't it part of the pitching coach's responsibility to make sure our arms are staying healthy, and if they are injured, come back well? After the eggs laid by Prior, Wood, and others, it seems that Rothschild has done a rather pedestrian job at best. Being that he has been the pitching coach for seven years now (since 2002), it seems like its about time to let him go, if not now, then at the end of the season.

 

Maybe Greg Maddux wants a job?

[Backtobanks]

I'm not sure if this is a topic that comes up much around here (newbie), but I have to ask the general opinion on the quality of work that Larry Rothschild has done as the pitching coach for the Cubs. Without doing too much digging into statistics, my gut says that each year our pitching has been below expectations-- all these starting rotations that have seemed great on paper have failed to click, and the only young pitcher to come up and succeed under Rothschild as far as I can see is Carlos Marmol, who hasn't been phenomenal lately.

 

Although you cannot put injury issues sorely on the pitching coach's shoulders, I think he definitely has to answer for it a little. Isn't it part of the pitching coach's responsibility to make sure our arms are staying healthy, and if they are injured, come back well? After the eggs laid by Prior, Wood, and others, it seems that Rothschild has done a rather pedestrian job at best. Being that he has been the pitching coach for seven years now (since 2002), it seems like its about time to let him go, if not now, then at the end of the season.

 

Maybe Greg Maddux wants a job?

 

 

Rothschild seems to be highly regarded as a very good pitching coach among baseball people. I would imagine his job is as safe as Lou's and Hendry's.

[laurens]

Marshall, Harden, Wells and Dempster (2008 version) have all played at or above expectations. Ok, maybe Harden shouldn't be on that list, but still. I don't think our pitching has performed below average. I think our team ERA+ last year was 115, which is far from bad.

[CubColtPacer]

The Cubs pitching was 3rd best in the NL in 2008 and 2nd best in 2007 (as far as team ERA). Even this year, which has been a struggle pitching wise especially in the bullpen, the Cubs are still hanging on to average at 8th place overall.

 

Neither pitching staff in 07 or 08 was supposed to be one of the best in the league. I would argue they most likely overachieved both years (although more in 07 than in 08, but that's just because 08's pitching staff had more expectations on it).

 

I don't see where Rothschild wouldn't get a decent amount of leash. His recent track record points to him getting a little bit of time, and the Cubs pitching seems to have been coming together the last 2-3 weeks.

[Three Finger]

I don't know that Marshall has preformed more than expectations. He's been fine, but about what we thought he would be. Rich Hill was a bust. As has Guzman been so far, though lately has looked a bit better. Mitre was crap. Maybe I'm wrong in this, I guess its just a gut feeling he hasn't been what he should be.

[laurens]

I don't know that Marshall has preformed more than expectations. He's been fine, but about what we thought he would be. Rich Hill was a bust. As has Guzman been so far, though lately has looked a bit better. Mitre was crap. Maybe I'm wrong in this, I guess its just a gut feeling he hasn't been what he should be.

 

I believe Marshall has been above expectations. His ERA is over 4.00, but that's mainly because he's taken out with runners on base that the reliever fails to strand. I have seen numerous times that Marshall pitched a gem, but the RP screws him over. Marshall has actually been one of our best pitchers this year so far.

[Fred Hornkohl]

I don't know that Marshall has preformed more than expectations. He's been fine, but about what we thought he would be. Rich Hill was a bust. As has Guzman been so far, though lately has looked a bit better. Mitre was crap. Maybe I'm wrong in this, I guess its just a gut feeling he hasn't been what he should be.

 

You'd do well to consult a physician about whatever's ailing your gut.

[Three Finger]

I don't know that Marshall has preformed more than expectations. He's been fine, but about what we thought he would be. Rich Hill was a bust. As has Guzman been so far, though lately has looked a bit better. Mitre was crap. Maybe I'm wrong in this, I guess its just a gut feeling he hasn't been what he should be.

 

I believe Marshall has been above expectations. His ERA is over 4.00, but that's mainly because he's taken out with runners on base that the reliever fails to strand. I have seen numerous times that Marshall pitched a gem, but the RP screws him over. Marshall has actually been one of our best pitchers this year so far.

 

I agree with you on this year. I think my problems with Marshall in the past have been more mental. He has great stuff, it just seems like he's pitching scared sometimes-- but maybe I'm crazy.

[Three Finger]

I don't know that Marshall has preformed more than expectations. He's been fine, but about what we thought he would be. Rich Hill was a bust. As has Guzman been so far, though lately has looked a bit better. Mitre was crap. Maybe I'm wrong in this, I guess its just a gut feeling he hasn't been what he should be.

 

You'd do well to consult a physician about whatever's ailing your gut.

 

Wish I could! No health insurance.

[rocket]

I don't know that Marshall has preformed more than expectations. He's been fine, but about what we thought he would be. Rich Hill was a bust. As has Guzman been so far, though lately has looked a bit better. Mitre was crap. Maybe I'm wrong in this, I guess its just a gut feeling he hasn't been what he should be.

 

Larry is hardly to blame for Guzman's previous health struggles, and Hill had a good season under Larry's watch, I don't think he's to blame for Hill's mental problems.

 

The Cubs have had close to the best staff in the majors nearly every year under Larry's watch. Of course he hasn't been perfect, but I don't think the Cubs would have been better off with a different pitching coach.

[dew1679666265]

As far as his job security goes, I agree Rothschild is as safe as the current administration. And I think that's appropriate.

 

Most of the major injuries we've seen (Prior, Wood, Fox, etc) have been due in large part to either overuse or bad luck. Obviously bad luck cannot be blamed on Larry and I tend to put overuse more on the manager, since he can over-ride the pitching coach's wishes.

 

Most of the starters we've had have been right around where they ought to be, at least. Guys like Marquis, Clement, Rusch and Jerome Williams have all had at least one season (and more for Marquis and Clement) that were at or above what could realistically be expected of them. I think Rothschild deserves quite a bit of credit for that.

 

Also, we've had young pitchers like Marmol, Guzman, Z and Marshall all develop well under his tutelage. Guzman hasn't been terrific yet, I understand, but he's showing signs of his true talent level and it's just a matter of staying healthy.

 

The bullpen has been more of a mixed bag, but that's how a bullpen is. We've had guys like Howry, Eyre, Marmol, Wuertz, etc. pitch very well out of the pen in Larry's tenure and it appears guys like Guzman and Gregg are settling in (at least somewhat).

 

Overall, Larry's tenure has been a net plus for the team and there are few pitching coaches I'd take over him.

 

EDIT: I should also mention Ted Lilly in this. Ted has been very good since becoming a Cub, partly, I'm sure, due to getting out of the AL East, but I think Rothschild had to have something to do with how well he's done.

[chasinf5s]

Rothschild is one of the best pitching coaches in the game.

 

12th in ERA this year

5th in 2008====3rd in WHIP

4th in 2007====4th in WHIP

 

2005 and 2006 were bad years

 

3rd in 2004====3rd in WHIP

5th in 2003====10th in WHIP

 

Guzman has fought injuries through most of his Career, Mark Prior for one season was completely dominating, Clement was very good for us along with Dempster, Lilly etc. Sure its not all Rothschild but its not Rothschilds fault that Jim Hendry went out and signed average to below average relief. Starting pitching has not been a problem, the bullpen has sucked. Sure this next stat isint all inclusive but take what you want from it

 

the Cubs in 2009

Innings 1-6, they have a 3.64 ERA (last year 3.90)

Inning 7+ have a 5.51 ERA. (last year 3.81)

[17 Seconds]

i thought the irrational dislike of rothschild's performance in recent years was something that was reserved for cubs.com

 

i don't really understand where the "they have performed under expectations" stuff comes from, especially when you talk about the rotation. who has underperformed? seriously, who? i feel like it's the other way around. lilly has become a great pitcher. dempster was awesome last season and has been better than his era suggests this year. marquis was a leage average starter or better for 2 years. marshall has managed to keep his era under 4 for the past few years despite giving up bombs and not missing bats.

 

seriously, who has underperformed? i dont understand why people always want to get rid of this guy for no reason even though our pitching is always a strength.

[chasinf5s]

i thought the irrational dislike of rothschild's performance in recent years was something that was reserved for cubs.com

 

i don't really understand where the "they have performed under expectations" stuff comes from, especially when you talk about the rotation. who has underperformed? seriously, who? i feel like it's the other way around. lilly has become a great pitcher. dempster was awesome last season and has been better than his era suggests this year. marquis was a leage average starter or better for 2 years. marshall has managed to keep his era under 4 for the past few years despite giving up bombs and not missing bats.

 

seriously, who has underperformed? i dont understand why people always want to get rid of this guy for no reason even though our pitching is always a strength.

 

I agree, like i said before its not his fault that Hendry signed a bunch of crap

[Banedon]

The only criticism that I have for Rothschild is that he's not Dave Duncan. But then, there's only one of him.

[dew1679666265]

The only criticism that I have for Rothschild is that he's not Dave Duncan. But then, there's only one of him.

 

Exactly. Other than Duncan, I'm not sure there's a pitching coach I'd take over Larry.

 

Really, Lou put together a terrific staff overall. Between Larry, Gerald Perry, Mike Quade and Alan Trammel, we've got some very good coaches.

[Outshined_One]

The only criticism that I have for Rothschild is that he's not Dave Duncan. But then, there's only one of him.

 

Exactly. Other than Duncan, I'm not sure there's a pitching coach I'd take over Larry.

 

Leo Mazzone.

[dew1679666265]

The only criticism that I have for Rothschild is that he's not Dave Duncan. But then, there's only one of him.

 

Exactly. Other than Duncan, I'm not sure there's a pitching coach I'd take over Larry.

 

Leo Mazzone.

 

Yeah, I considered him. His struggles with the Orioles' staff concerned me, but I'd probably take him as well.

[shnsajax]

The only criticism that I have for Rothschild is that he's not Dave Duncan. But then, there's only one of him.

 

Exactly. Other than Duncan, I'm not sure there's a pitching coach I'd take over Larry.

 

Leo Mazzone.

 

Yeah, I considered him. His struggles with the Orioles' staff concerned me, but I'd probably take him as well.

 

Leo Mazzone is a toss up, Duncan on the other hand is hands down the best. I'm fine with Rothschild. Hendry loves him as well, if he did leave with Lou I would not mind if Maddux came in as the pitching coach.

[Outshined_One]

Leo Mazzone is a toss up, Duncan on the other hand is hands down the best. I'm fine with Rothschild. Hendry loves him as well, if he did leave with Lou I would not mind if Maddux came in as the pitching coach.

 

I'm assuming you mean Greg and not his brother Mike (who I think is pitching coach for Texas)?

[dew1679666265]

Leo Mazzone is a toss up, Duncan on the other hand is hands down the best. I'm fine with Rothschild. Hendry loves him as well, if he did leave with Lou I would not mind if Maddux came in as the pitching coach.

 

I'm assuming you mean Greg and not his brother Mike (who I think is pitching coach for Texas)?

 

Greg was mentioned in the original post as a possible replacement for Rothschild, so I think your assumption is correct.

 

I think if Lou is fired at some point (very unlikely), Larry would go too. If Lou retires and Trammel is promoted, there's a good chance Larry sticks around. No clue what might happen if Ryno takes over.

[manbearcub]

Larry was here with Baylor, not to mention Baker. I dont think we can assume anything.

[dew1679666265]

Larry was here with Baylor, not to mention Baker. I dont think we can assume anything.

 

I guess I just question the likelihood that he'd make it through 3 firings. Eventually I'd think a new manager would want his own hand-picked pitching coach.

 

If Lou were fired at some point, though, and Larry did, in fact, remain with the new manager, that'd be a pretty big positive statement in Larry's favor.

[manbearcub]

Larry was here with Baylor, not to mention Baker. I dont think we can assume anything.

 

I guess I just question the likelihood that he'd make it through 3 firings. Eventually I'd think a new manager would want his own hand-picked pitching coach.

 

If Lou were fired at some point, though, and Larry did, in fact, remain with the new manager, that'd be a pretty big positive statement in Larry's favor.

if (god forbid) ryno were to take over, i really wonder what kind of 'connections' he would have for a pitching coach. hendry seems to love larry, so he may still stick around.

[dew1679666265]

Larry was here with Baylor, not to mention Baker. I dont think we can assume anything.

 

I guess I just question the likelihood that he'd make it through 3 firings. Eventually I'd think a new manager would want his own hand-picked pitching coach.

 

If Lou were fired at some point, though, and Larry did, in fact, remain with the new manager, that'd be a pretty big positive statement in Larry's favor.

if (god forbid) ryno were to take over, i really wonder what kind of 'connections' he would have for a pitching coach. hendry seems to love larry, so he may still stick around.

 

It's possible Larry might stick around. Actually, I wonder if Ryno would have connections with Maddux? They were teammates.