Bad Bullpen Ramifications

[apete6]

The last two days (5/5 and 5/6), our starters (Marshall and Harden) have had very strong starts through 7 innings, yet Lou has put them back out there in the 8th because he has no one he trusts in the pen besides Marmol. He couldn't use him on Tuesday and had to on Wednesday in a game we were leading 6-1 after 7 and 1/2. This is bad and will eventually catch up to us. Marmol can't pitch every game, even though Lou wants him to.

 

Good thing we let go of Wuertz and Eyre for essentially nothing. Lou's doghouse nonsense is brutal.

[TruffleShuffle]

The last two days (5/5 and 5/6), our starters (Marshall and Harden) have had very strong starts through 7 innings, yet Lou has put them back out there in the 8th because he has no one he trusts in the pen besides Marmol. He couldn't use him on Tuesday and had to on Wednesday in a game we were leading 6-1 after 7 and 1/2. This is bad and will eventually catch up to us. Marmol can't pitch every game, even though Lou wants him to.

 

Good thing we let go of Wuertz and Eyre for essentially nothing. Lou's doghouse nonsense is brutal.

 

their pitch counts were below 100 and they were pitching well, that probably had a lot to do with it.

 

but yeah, especially tonight, you should take your glass-armed starter out after 7 effective innings and go to whoever to finish it out. it's a 6-1 lead, i don't care how much you don't trust cotts or guzman or fox or whoever, even the back of your bullpen will close it out 95% of time.

[Old Style]

I was extremely disappointed when Lou let Harden bat for himself in the 8th. I thought for sure that he'd bring Guzman or Heilman in at that point. Harden had done an incredible job for 7 innings and was still under 90 pitches. That would have been the perfect time to pull him.

[Fred Hornkohl]

.... and to top it all off, the bullpen is finally showing signs of being decent..........

 

05/01 - 05/06        IP    H    R   ER   BB    K   HR    PC    ST   ST%  P/IP   GB   FB   GB%  BB/9   K/9  HR/9  WHIP   ERA
Cotts               1.7    0    0    0    1    2    0    21    15  0.71  12.6    2    1  0.67  5.40 10.80  0.00  0.60  0.00
Heilman             1.0    0    0    0    0    3    0    12     9  0.75  12.0    0    0  0.00  0.00 27.00  0.00  0.00  0.00
Patton              3.0    1    0    0    2    1    0    38    23  0.61  12.7    5    3  0.63  6.00  3.00  0.00  1.00  0.00
Gregg               4.0    3    1    1    1    3    0    81    52  0.64  20.3    5    4  0.56  2.25  6.75  0.00  1.00  2.25
Marmol              4.0    2    1    1    3    7    1    73    47  0.64  18.3    2    3  0.40  6.75 15.75  2.25  1.25  2.25
Guzman              2.0    1    1    1    1    0    0    31    22  0.71  15.5    2    4  0.33  4.50  0.00  0.00  1.00  4.50
Samardzija          0.7    2    1    1    1    0    0    19     9  0.47  28.5    0    2  0.00 13.50  0.00  0.00  4.50 13.50

Totals             16.3    9    4    4    9   16    1   275   177  0.64  16.8   16   17  0.48  4.96  8.82  0.55  1.10  2.20

[Little Slide Rooter]

I doubt it was a trust issue. If we were clinging to a 2-3 run lead, maybe, but Harden was cruised through 7 strong innings, and there was really no reason to pull him at the time.

[soapy]

Heilman hasn't pitched since Saturday. Guzman since Sunday. They've been two of the better relievers, so I don't get it. It's great that he rested Marmol and Gregg on Tuesday and all, but they'd both thrown 4 of 5 days before that. It's foolish to think they can continue that work load and hold up. Besides, it's not necessary when Guzman and Heilman are dependable.

[Old Style]

I doubt it was a trust issue. If we were clinging to a 2-3 run lead, maybe, but Harden was cruised through 7 strong innings, and there was really no reason to pull him at the time.

Except for his long history of arm problems when he throws too much.

[jersey cubs fan]

With Harden you have to use preventive medicine. The Cubs acknowledged this when they acquired him and over the offseason/beginning of spring training. But they haven't shown any signs of doing anything about it so far this regular season. To top it off, Harden was facing the heart of their order for the 4th time in the game. To suggest there was no reason to take Harden out before the 8th is to completely ignore the facts.

[apete6]

With Harden you have to use preventive medicine. The Cubs acknowledged this when they acquired him and over the offseason/beginning of spring training. But they haven't shown any signs of doing anything about it so far this regular season. To top it off, Harden was facing the heart of their order for the 4th time in the game. To suggest there was no reason to take Harden out before the 8th is to completely ignore the facts.

 

Agreed. 92 pitches and 7 innings is enough from Harden. I don't care who is in your bullpen, if you can't hold a 5 run lead for 2 innings against the Astros, you don't deserve to win.

[soapy]

refused to use Guzman again last night. are you kidding, Lou?

 

i look forward to him whining about Mormol/Gregg being worn down in July.

 

i can already see it. after not pitching for a week Guzman will walk a few guys in his next appearance and then it's banishment time.

[Little Slide Rooter]

refused to use Guzman again last night. are you kidding, Lou?

 

i look forward to him whining about Mormol/Gregg being worn down in July.

 

i can already see it. after not pitching for a week Guzman will walk a few guys in his next appearance and then it's banishment time.

 

You do realize we were only up by 2 with the meat of the Astros order coming up, right?

[soapy]

refused to use Guzman again last night. are you kidding, Lou?

 

i look forward to him whining about Mormol/Gregg being worn down in July.

 

i can already see it. after not pitching for a week Guzman will walk a few guys in his next appearance and then it's banishment time.

 

You do realize we were only up by 2 with the meat of the Astros order coming up, right?

 

When? They were up four when Gregg came in, no (Gregg gave up one run on the sac fly)? Anyway, that's not the only time he could have been used. He could have been used in the eigth instead of Mormol.

 

Look, at some point guys like Guzman and Heilman (he did finally pitch last night) have to be trusted in a tight game. Mormol and Gregg simply can not hold up at this ridiculous pace.

 

edit: you were talking about the eighth when you said up two, i guess.

[Little Slide Rooter]

refused to use Guzman again last night. are you kidding, Lou?

 

i look forward to him whining about Mormol/Gregg being worn down in July.

 

i can already see it. after not pitching for a week Guzman will walk a few guys in his next appearance and then it's banishment time.

 

You do realize we were only up by 2 with the meat of the Astros order coming up, right?

 

When? They were up four when Gregg came in, no (Gregg gave up one run on the sac fly)? Anyway, that's not the only time he could have been used. He could have been used in the eigth instead of Mormol.

 

Look, at some point guys like Guzman and Heilman (he did finally pitch last night) have to be trusted in a tight game. Mormol and Gregg simply can not hold up at this ridiculous pace.

 

edit: you were talking about the eighth when you said up two, i guess.

 

As you recall, Gregg didnt come in at first, cue near disaster.

[soapy]

As you recall, Gregg didnt come in at first, cue near disaster.

 

you think Guzman wasn't capable of getting out of that "near disaster"? no team has the luxury of using their "top" bullpen guys in tight games only and relegating the other four to garbage innings. Guzman and Heilman especially have to be used in those situations sometimes. i can understand Lou's desire to avoid Cotts and Patton in those spots if possible, but Guzman and Heilman have been terrific.

[jersey cubs fan]

refused to use Guzman again last night. are you kidding, Lou?

 

i look forward to him whining about Mormol/Gregg being worn down in July.

 

i can already see it. after not pitching for a week Guzman will walk a few guys in his next appearance and then it's banishment time.

 

You do realize we were only up by 2 with the meat of the Astros order coming up, right?

 

When? They were up four when Gregg came in, no (Gregg gave up one run on the sac fly)? Anyway, that's not the only time he could have been used. He could have been used in the eigth instead of Mormol.

 

Look, at some point guys like Guzman and Heilman (he did finally pitch last night) have to be trusted in a tight game. Mormol and Gregg simply can not hold up at this ridiculous pace.

 

edit: you were talking about the eighth when you said up two, i guess.

 

Why do you keep saying Mormol?

 

Lou had Guzman warming up a lot the night before, my guess is that wasted warm up time made him reluctant to use Guzman last night.

[soapy]

opps...Marmol

 

I guess I don't see why warming up excessively the night before would make him reluctant to use Guzman. He's pitched in one of the last seven games (and not since Sunday) while Marmol has now pitched in seven of the last nine games. I understand wanting to be cautious with Guzman's injury history, but come on...

[Laura]

Maybe Lou wanted to have Guz ready to go long tonight just in case.

 

or maybe he just forgot Guz is out there.

[Little Slide Rooter]

The catch 22 is that even if these guys do have the stuff to get it done, but Lou feels ore confortable with Gregg and Marmol, the rest are going to rust away in the pen and get shellacked when their time comes.

[NCCubFan]

Maybe Lou wanted to have Guz ready to go long tonight just in case.

That seems quite possible to me. It's Wells' first career major league start; nobody knows what will happen.

[cubswin2009]

Aaron Heilman ftw

[17 Seconds]

Yeah, we're not making the playoffs.

 

Good thing we're in all out win mode!

[The Other 15]

Whaaaaaaaa, whaaaaaaaaaa,....(sob, sob), It's 31 games and "we're" already out of first place by 2.5 games!!!!!! Whaaaaaaaa.

[haubrich91]

So you feel confident with our bullpen?

[The Other 15]

So you feel confident with our bullpen?

I feel confident that there's a lot of baseball left to play. You looking around the league much? Notice how many teams are having issues with bullpens? Notice how bullpen numbers (individual and team) can fluctuate dramatically early in a season? Still too early to make any definitive statement other than there will be some changes made.

[Cubbie Swagger]

Good thing we let go of Wuertz and Eyre for essentially nothing. Lou's doghouse nonsense is brutal.

Agreed.

 

We've given away so many good relievers over the years, it's pathetic. Now they're helping other teams beat us.