Pirates are stupid

[TruffleShuffle]

Wilson is no Adam Everett defensively. And he's pretty much a lock for a sub-.700 OPS and a sub-.320 OBP. And he's 31 next season. And he makes more than 7 million. And he's only under team control for a year unless you want to pay him 8.4 million in 2010.

 

except he's eclipsed those numbers 2 of the past 6 years, which means it's hardly a lock. he adds probably 15 runs a year with his glove and plays a position where even average offensive players (o. cabrera) get paid $10M. paying jack wilson an average of $7M per year has very, very little to do with why the pirates have been so bad.

Wilson was 27th out of 32 SSs with at least 300 PAs in VORP last year. His VORP was 2.7, which puts him at only slightly more productive than the average replacement player. Not worth it. He was 14th in 2007, 23d in 2006, 27th again in 2005, 6th in 2004, and 24th in 2003. So, only once in his career, in 2004, was he in the top third of all SSs in the league, once he was in the bottom third. The rest of his career he has been mired in the bottom third of all SSs.

 

VORP does not include defense. you guys keep throwing out stats to show that he's lousy offensively; we already know that.

[Jehrico]

Wilson is no Adam Everett defensively. And he's pretty much a lock for a sub-.700 OPS and a sub-.320 OBP. And he's 31 next season. And he makes more than 7 million. And he's only under team control for a year unless you want to pay him 8.4 million in 2010.

 

except he's eclipsed those numbers 2 of the past 6 years, which means it's hardly a lock. he adds probably 15 runs a year with his glove and plays a position where even average offensive players (o. cabrera) get paid $10M. paying jack wilson an average of $7M per year has very, very little to do with why the pirates have been so bad.

Wilson was 27th out of 32 SSs with at least 300 PAs in VORP last year. His VORP was 2.7, which puts him at only slightly more productive than the average replacement player. Not worth it. He was 14th in 2007, 23d in 2006, 27th again in 2005, 6th in 2004, and 24th in 2003. So, only once in his career, in 2004, was he in the top third of all SSs in the league, once he was in the bottom third. The rest of his career he has been mired in the bottom third of all SSs.

 

VORP does not include defense. you guys keep throwing out stats to show that he's lousy offensively; we already know that.

I know that. That's why I made a point that SSs historically don't tend to keep up their range into their mid-30s, greatly reducing Wilson's projected value going forward if you're interested in projecting more than maybe one year out. If he's contributing significantly below average with the bat, he's not worth 7-8 million a year going forward. There's no shortage of slick fielding, can't hit SSs in AA and AAA that could be had for the league minimum instead.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Wilson is no Adam Everett defensively. And he's pretty much a lock for a sub-.700 OPS and a sub-.320 OBP. And he's 31 next season. And he makes more than 7 million. And he's only under team control for a year unless you want to pay him 8.4 million in 2010.

 

except he's eclipsed those numbers 2 of the past 6 years, which means it's hardly a lock. he adds probably 15 runs a year with his glove and plays a position where even average offensive players (o. cabrera) get paid $10M. paying jack wilson an average of $7M per year has very, very little to do with why the pirates have been so bad.

 

 

I'm extremely skeptical Wilson adds 15 runs a year defensively, is there evidence that he's that elite with the glove? PMR says he's about half that, and Win Shares and RZR put him in the middle of the pack defensively among shortstops.

 

Yes, Wilson has been average offensively in the past. He's a 31 year old who's a career sub-.700 OPS and sub-.320 OBP, are teams supposed to gamble on that happening for the second time in 5 years with a Wilson who's leaving his prime and missed half a season last year due to injury? And again, any team trading for him has him for only one year unless they want to pay him 8+ million in 2010.

 

People talk badly about Jack Wilson because he's not good at all, and he's very expensive for his production.

[TruffleShuffle]

Wilson is no Adam Everett defensively. And he's pretty much a lock for a sub-.700 OPS and a sub-.320 OBP. And he's 31 next season. And he makes more than 7 million. And he's only under team control for a year unless you want to pay him 8.4 million in 2010.

 

except he's eclipsed those numbers 2 of the past 6 years, which means it's hardly a lock. he adds probably 15 runs a year with his glove and plays a position where even average offensive players (o. cabrera) get paid $10M. paying jack wilson an average of $7M per year has very, very little to do with why the pirates have been so bad.

 

 

I'm extremely skeptical Wilson adds 15 runs a year defensively, is there evidence that he's that elite with the glove? PMR says he's about half that, and Win Shares and RZR put him in the middle of the pack defensively among shortstops.

 

Yes, Wilson has been average offensively in the past. He's a 31 year old who's a career sub-.700 OPS and sub-.320 OBP, are teams supposed to gamble on that happening for the second time in 5 years with a Wilson who's leaving his prime and missed half a season last year due to injury? And again, any team trading for him has him for only one year unless they want to pay him 8+ million in 2010.

 

People talk badly about Jack Wilson because he's not good at all, and he's very expensive for his production.

 

he's not very expensive. $7M is not that much for a starting shortstop. he outperformed his contract by a pretty good margin in 2007, though that was a fluke year. he wasn't great defensively this year, though he was still good, but he was dealing with injury problems for much of 2008. he's been one off the best defensive shortstops in baseball since he came into the league, though.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

he's not very expensive. $7M is not that much for a starting shortstop. he outperformed his contract by a pretty good margin in 2007, though that was a fluke year.

 

7 million is entirely too much to pay for an average defensive shortstop with below average offense, especially a 31 year old with recent injury troubles that you are trading for. We're essentially describing Ronny Cedeno or the dozens of comparable players across different minor league systems. This is why it's insane for the Pirates to have such demands for Wilson in trade.

 

he wasn't great defensively this year, though he was still good, but he was dealing with injury problems for much of 2008.

 

His PMR, Win Shares, and RZR don't change very much at all going back a few years.

 

 

he's been one off the best defensive shortstops in baseball since he came into the league, though.

 

According to what?

[TruffleShuffle]

 

he's been one off the best defensive shortstops in baseball since he came into the league, though.

 

According to what?

 

fielding statistics. he's not adam everett good, someone was right about that, but he's in the next level defensively.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

 

he's been one off the best defensive shortstops in baseball since he came into the league, though.

 

According to what?

 

fielding statistics. he's not adam everett good, someone was right about that, but he's in the next level defensively.

 

What statistics?