ESPN All-Star poll

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http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/polling?event_id=3513

 

What the hell is up with question #9?

[woodchip2153]

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/polling?event_id=3513

 

What the hell is up with question #9?

 

It's based off of Tim Kurkjian's article about who he would select. He didn't select Geo, but at the end of the article he mentions how the Cubs could have a guy at every position and specifically mentions Geovany Soto.

[hotshot13422]

It's based off of Tim Kurkjian's article about who he would select. He didn't select Geo, but at the end of the article he mentions how the Cubs could have a guy at every position and specifically mentions Geovany Soto.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/allstar08/columns/story?columnist=kurkjian_tim&id=3437903

[TruffleShuffle]

the fact that ryan ludwick might be the most deserving outfielder fills me with unspeakable rage.

[bukie]

He has the Cubs with 5 All-Stars, only one of them being a position player. And that one was DeRosa. Lee, Ramirez, Soriano, Fukudome, Soto and even Theriot also deserve consideration. That's just amazing.

[chuckywang]

He has the Cubs with 5 All-Stars, only one of them being a position player. And that one was DeRosa. Lee, Ramirez, Soriano, Fukudome, Soto and even Theriot also deserve consideration. That's just amazing.

 

DeRosa as an All Star? I don't know about that.

 

I think the only two positions where the Cubs shouldn't get all star consideration is 2B and CF.

[JimSorgi]

He has the Cubs with 5 All-Stars, only one of them being a position player. And that one was DeRosa. Lee, Ramirez, Soriano, Fukudome, Soto and even Theriot also deserve consideration. That's just amazing.

 

DeRosa as an All Star? I don't know about that.

 

I think the only two positions where the Cubs shouldn't get all star consideration is 2B and CF.

He's got an .888 OPS behind only Utley and Uggla.

Edited June 13, 2008 by JimSorgi

[WTFCUBS]

He has the Cubs with 5 All-Stars, only one of them being a position player. And that one was DeRosa. Lee, Ramirez, Soriano, Fukudome, Soto and even Theriot also deserve consideration. That's just amazing.

 

DeRosa as an All Star? I don't know about that.

 

I think the only two positions where the Cubs shouldn't get all star consideration is 2B and CF.

 

 

Who is your alternative after utley?

 

 

edit: forgot uggla...dam

Edited June 13, 2008 by WTFCUBS

[bukie]

He has the Cubs with 5 All-Stars, only one of them being a position player. And that one was DeRosa. Lee, Ramirez, Soriano, Fukudome, Soto and even Theriot also deserve consideration. That's just amazing.

 

DeRosa as an All Star? I don't know about that.

 

I think the only two positions where the Cubs shouldn't get all star consideration is 2B and CF.

 

DeRosa's actually been the third best 2B in the NL this year (though far behind Uggla and Utley). If there's any position that shouldn't get all-star consideration after CF, it's 1B.

[carolinacubbie]

He has the Cubs with 5 All-Stars, only one of them being a position player. And that one was DeRosa. Lee, Ramirez, Soriano, Fukudome, Soto and even Theriot also deserve consideration. That's just amazing.

 

DeRosa as an All Star? I don't know about that.

 

I think the only two positions where the Cubs shouldn't get all star consideration is 2B and CF.

 

DeRosa's actually been the third best 2B in the NL this year (though far behind Uggla and Utley). If there's any position that shouldn't get all-star consideration after CF, it's 1B.

 

 

Yeah because he has been the fourth best offensive first baseman, and the best defensive first baseman means he shouldn't get any consideration?

[bukie]

He has the Cubs with 5 All-Stars, only one of them being a position player. And that one was DeRosa. Lee, Ramirez, Soriano, Fukudome, Soto and even Theriot also deserve consideration. That's just amazing.

 

DeRosa as an All Star? I don't know about that.

 

I think the only two positions where the Cubs shouldn't get all star consideration is 2B and CF.

 

DeRosa's actually been the third best 2B in the NL this year (though far behind Uggla and Utley). If there's any position that shouldn't get all-star consideration after CF, it's 1B.

 

 

Yeah because he has been the fourth best offensive first baseman, and the best defensive first baseman means he shouldn't get any consideration?

 

Closer to the 12th best offensive first baseman with a .275 EQA, behind Berkman, Pujols, Gonzalez, Helton, Fielder, Conor Jackson, and Teixeira in the NL alone. And Lee hasn't exactly been the best defensive first baseman this year. Average, though.

[beersoakedivy]

He has the Cubs with 5 All-Stars, only one of them being a position player. And that one was DeRosa. Lee, Ramirez, Soriano, Fukudome, Soto and even Theriot also deserve consideration. That's just amazing.

 

DeRosa as an All Star? I don't know about that.

 

I think the only two positions where the Cubs shouldn't get all star consideration is 2B and CF.

 

DeRosa's actually been the third best 2B in the NL this year (though far behind Uggla and Utley). If there's any position that shouldn't get all-star consideration after CF, it's 1B.

 

 

Yeah because he has been the fourth best offensive first baseman, and the best defensive first baseman means he shouldn't get any consideration?

 

Closer to the 12th best offensive first baseman with a .275 EQA, behind Berkman, Pujols, Gonzalez, Helton, Fielder, Conor Jackson, and Teixeira in the NL alone. And Lee hasn't exactly been the best defensive first baseman this year. Average, though.

 

Have you watched any games this year? Lee has been solid defensively. Average...wow

[inari]

He has the Cubs with 5 All-Stars, only one of them being a position player. And that one was DeRosa. Lee, Ramirez, Soriano, Fukudome, Soto and even Theriot also deserve consideration. That's just amazing.

 

DeRosa as an All Star? I don't know about that.

 

I think the only two positions where the Cubs shouldn't get all star consideration is 2B and CF.

 

DeRosa's actually been the third best 2B in the NL this year (though far behind Uggla and Utley). If there's any position that shouldn't get all-star consideration after CF, it's 1B.

 

 

Yeah because he has been the fourth best offensive first baseman, and the best defensive first baseman means he shouldn't get any consideration?

 

Closer to the 12th best offensive first baseman with a .275 EQA, behind Berkman, Pujols, Gonzalez, Helton, Fielder, Conor Jackson, and Teixeira in the NL alone. And Lee hasn't exactly been the best defensive first baseman this year. Average, though.

 

Have you watched any games this year? Lee has been solid defensively. Average...wow

 

I sincerely hope that the Cubs being ultra-awesome is not going to bring a lot of "watch the game" crowds to the board. Lee has been average defensively, yeah.

[beersoakedivy]

He has the Cubs with 5 All-Stars, only one of them being a position player. And that one was DeRosa. Lee, Ramirez, Soriano, Fukudome, Soto and even Theriot also deserve consideration. That's just amazing.

 

DeRosa as an All Star? I don't know about that.

 

I think the only two positions where the Cubs shouldn't get all star consideration is 2B and CF.

 

DeRosa's actually been the third best 2B in the NL this year (though far behind Uggla and Utley). If there's any position that shouldn't get all-star consideration after CF, it's 1B.

 

 

Yeah because he has been the fourth best offensive first baseman, and the best defensive first baseman means he shouldn't get any consideration?

 

Closer to the 12th best offensive first baseman with a .275 EQA, behind Berkman, Pujols, Gonzalez, Helton, Fielder, Conor Jackson, and Teixeira in the NL alone. And Lee hasn't exactly been the best defensive first baseman this year. Average, though.

 

Have you watched any games this year? Lee has been solid defensively. Average...wow

 

I sincerely hope that the Cubs being ultra-awesome is not going to bring a lot of Johnny-come-lately "watch the game" crowds to the board. Lee has been average defensively, yeah.

 

Average my a@@...I'm not a bandwagon fan so back off. I've been a fan through the bad years too, going way back. Lee has definitely been better than average. If he is average like you claim, please elaborate on why.

[inari]

He's lost significant range and has had trouble making some routine plays.

[beersoakedivy]

He's lost significant range and has had trouble making some routine plays.

 

Well, maybe I'm going blind as I get older because I just don't see it. He still makes the difficult plays look routine. I will definitely be watching a little closer to see if I see what you see. You are entitled to your opinion and I respect that.

[bukie]

Average my a@@...I'm not a bandwagon fan so back off. I've been a fan through the bad years too, going way back. Lee has definitely been better than average. If he is average like you claim, please elaborate on why.

 

Lee gets to a lot of balls that are generally out of the 1B zone (OOZ), where he's 4th in the NL. However, he leads NL 1B in fielding errors with 5, and is third worst among NL 1B in all errors with 6 (Votto 8, Delgado 7).

 

His overall fielding rating (RZR) puts him a distant 4th in the NL, in a cluster with Adrian Gonzalez, Todd Helton, Mark Teixeira, Ryan Howard and Joey Votto (who gets to a TON of balls OOZ).

 

The best defensive 1Bs, this year, by far, to this point, have been Pujols and Berkman. That cluster of 6 is in the middle, average to above average, and the other 6 1B (Adam LaRoche, Carlos Delgado, Prince Fielder, Conor Jackson, James Loney and Mike Jacobs) are below average.

 

So yes, Lee has been average to above average in the field this year.

[carolinacubbie]

He has the Cubs with 5 All-Stars, only one of them being a position player. And that one was DeRosa. Lee, Ramirez, Soriano, Fukudome, Soto and even Theriot also deserve consideration. That's just amazing.

 

DeRosa as an All Star? I don't know about that.

 

I think the only two positions where the Cubs shouldn't get all star consideration is 2B and CF.

 

DeRosa's actually been the third best 2B in the NL this year (though far behind Uggla and Utley). If there's any position that shouldn't get all-star consideration after CF, it's 1B.

 

 

Yeah because he has been the fourth best offensive first baseman, and the best defensive first baseman means he shouldn't get any consideration?

 

Closer to the 12th best offensive first baseman with a .275 EQA, behind Berkman, Pujols, Gonzalez, Helton, Fielder, Conor Jackson, and Teixeira in the NL alone. And Lee hasn't exactly been the best defensive first baseman this year. Average, though.

 

 

Yeah, because that is the only stat that matters. I've watched most all Cubs and Braves games this year, and if you truly think Tex has had a better year then Lee, then you are a joke. Disregard his home run totals, and the fact that he still has a decent batting average. Defense has been average, wow. He has made some amazing plays late in games this year. But hate on players thats always fun.

[JimSorgi]

He has the Cubs with 5 All-Stars, only one of them being a position player. And that one was DeRosa. Lee, Ramirez, Soriano, Fukudome, Soto and even Theriot also deserve consideration. That's just amazing.

 

DeRosa as an All Star? I don't know about that.

 

I think the only two positions where the Cubs shouldn't get all star consideration is 2B and CF.

 

DeRosa's actually been the third best 2B in the NL this year (though far behind Uggla and Utley). If there's any position that shouldn't get all-star consideration after CF, it's 1B.

 

 

Yeah because he has been the fourth best offensive first baseman, and the best defensive first baseman means he shouldn't get any consideration?

 

Closer to the 12th best offensive first baseman with a .275 EQA, behind Berkman, Pujols, Gonzalez, Helton, Fielder, Conor Jackson, and Teixeira in the NL alone. And Lee hasn't exactly been the best defensive first baseman this year. Average, though.

 

 

Yeah, because that is the only stat that matters. I've watched most all Cubs and Braves games this year, and if you truly think Tex has had a better year then Lee, then you are a joke. Disregard his home run totals, and the fact that he still has a decent batting average. Defense has been average, wow. He has made some amazing plays late in games this year. But hate on players thats always fun.

 

Great argument, wtg. EQA may not be the only stat that matters, but it matters a lot. Sure, maybe Derrek Lee has made some great plays, but his defense can still be average. Average defenders can still make great plays.

[Handlebar McSkullet]

He has the Cubs with 5 All-Stars, only one of them being a position player. And that one was DeRosa. Lee, Ramirez, Soriano, Fukudome, Soto and even Theriot also deserve consideration. That's just amazing.

 

DeRosa as an All Star? I don't know about that.

 

I think the only two positions where the Cubs shouldn't get all star consideration is 2B and CF.

 

DeRosa's actually been the third best 2B in the NL this year (though far behind Uggla and Utley). If there's any position that shouldn't get all-star consideration after CF, it's 1B.

 

 

Yeah because he has been the fourth best offensive first baseman, and the best defensive first baseman means he shouldn't get any consideration?

 

Closer to the 12th best offensive first baseman with a .275 EQA, behind Berkman, Pujols, Gonzalez, Helton, Fielder, Conor Jackson, and Teixeira in the NL alone. And Lee hasn't exactly been the best defensive first baseman this year. Average, though.

 

 

Yeah, because that is the only stat that matters. I've watched most all Cubs and Braves games this year, and if you truly think Tex has had a better year then Lee, then you are a joke. Disregard his home run totals, and the fact that he still has a decent batting average. Defense has been average, wow. He has made some amazing plays late in games this year. But hate on players thats always fun.

 

Great argument, wtg.

 

How does this happen all the time? What is with people and the eye test?

[bukie]

Yeah, because that is the only stat that matters. I've watched most all Cubs and Braves games this year, and if you truly think Tex has had a better year then Lee, then you are a joke. Disregard his home run totals, and the fact that he still has a decent batting average. Defense has been average, wow. He has made some amazing plays late in games this year. But hate on players thats always fun.

 

What stat do you want? 7th in the NL in slugging among 1B, 16th in the NL in OBP, 8th in OPS, 6th in HRs, 8th in batting average, 11th in walks, 7th in K's. 8th in RARP, 7th in VORP, 6th in EQR, 9th in Win Shares.

 

He does lead the NL in DPs, though. And ABs.

 

Nobody's hating on players. Some of us are just being realistic, and some of us are spouting nonsense to make themselves feel better about a baseless opinion. Derrek Lee has no business being an all-star this year based on numbers.

[carolinacubbie]

Yeah, because that is the only stat that matters. I've watched most all Cubs and Braves games this year, and if you truly think Tex has had a better year then Lee, then you are a joke. Disregard his home run totals, and the fact that he still has a decent batting average. Defense has been average, wow. He has made some amazing plays late in games this year. But hate on players thats always fun.

 

What stat do you want? 7th in the NL in slugging among 1B, 16th in the NL in OBP, 8th in OPS, 6th in HRs, 8th in batting average, 11th in walks, 7th in K's. 8th in RARP, 7th in VORP, 6th in EQR, 9th in Win Shares.

 

He does lead the NL in DPs, though. And ABs.

 

Nobody's hating on players. Some of us are just being realistic, and some of us are spouting nonsense to make themselves feel better about a baseless opinion. Derrek Lee has no business being an all-star this year based on numbers.

 

 

He isn't having a bad year. That is all I am saying, people try to make it seem Derrek has just been terrible this year. I don't think he should be an all-star, but you are crazy if you don't think he will be considered. It seems like almost every single thread on here is some thread bashing a player. Lee had a great April, struggled in May. I am pretty sure it will even out as the year goes on.

[JimSorgi]

He has the Cubs with 5 All-Stars, only one of them being a position player. And that one was DeRosa. Lee, Ramirez, Soriano, Fukudome, Soto and even Theriot also deserve consideration. That's just amazing.

 

DeRosa as an All Star? I don't know about that.

 

I think the only two positions where the Cubs shouldn't get all star consideration is 2B and CF.

 

DeRosa's actually been the third best 2B in the NL this year (though far behind Uggla and Utley). If there's any position that shouldn't get all-star consideration after CF, it's 1B.

 

 

Yeah because he has been the fourth best offensive first baseman, and the best defensive first baseman means he shouldn't get any consideration?

 

Closer to the 12th best offensive first baseman with a .275 EQA, behind Berkman, Pujols, Gonzalez, Helton, Fielder, Conor Jackson, and Teixeira in the NL alone. And Lee hasn't exactly been the best defensive first baseman this year. Average, though.

 

 

Yeah, because that is the only stat that matters. I've watched most all Cubs and Braves games this year, and if you truly think Tex has had a better year then Lee, then you are a joke. Disregard his home run totals, and the fact that he still has a decent batting average. Defense has been average, wow. He has made some amazing plays late in games this year. But hate on players thats always fun.

 

Great argument, wtg.

 

How does this happen all the time? What is with people and the eye test?

?

[CubbieBum]

Yeah, because that is the only stat that matters. I've watched most all Cubs and Braves games this year, and if you truly think Tex has had a better year then Lee, then you are a joke. Disregard his home run totals, and the fact that he still has a decent batting average. Defense has been average, wow. He has made some amazing plays late in games this year. But hate on players thats always fun.

 

What stat do you want? 7th in the NL in slugging among 1B, 16th in the NL in OBP, 8th in OPS, 6th in HRs, 8th in batting average, 11th in walks, 7th in K's. 8th in RARP, 7th in VORP, 6th in EQR, 9th in Win Shares.

 

He does lead the NL in DPs, though. And ABs.

 

Nobody's hating on players. Some of us are just being realistic, and some of us are spouting nonsense to make themselves feel better about a baseless opinion. Derrek Lee has no business being an all-star this year based on numbers.

 

 

He isn't having a bad year. That is all I am saying, people try to make it seem Derrek has just been terrible this year. I don't think he should be an all-star, but you are crazy if you don't think he will be considered. It seems like almost every single thread on here is some thread bashing a player. Lee had a great April, struggled in May. I am pretty sure it will even out as the year goes on.

 

by regular 1B's he isn't having too bad of a year but for his standards he's been bad. His defense and bat have slipped. The worst to me is his .337 OBP. He's not walking and that was what he used to do best. I love but can look and see he's having a down year so far. I'm not bashing him and still support him all the way but he simply hasn't been what we expect or what he expects this year.

[bukie]

He isn't having a bad year. That is all I am saying, people try to make it seem Derrek has just been terrible this year. I don't think he should be an all-star, but you are crazy if you don't think he will be considered. It seems like almost every single thread on here is some thread bashing a player. Lee had a great April, struggled in May. I am pretty sure it will even out as the year goes on.

 

Nobody is saying Lee has been terrible. You are just assuming because some of us don't think he's an All-Star that means we think he's terrible, and then using absolutely no statistical basis for your opinion.

 

He should get better, but up to this point he in now way deserves All-Star consideration. He'll get it, but he doesn't deserve it, and he certainly deserves less consideration than Soto, Ramirez, Fukudome, Soriano (although injured), Zambrano, Dempster, Wood, Marmol, Theriot and DeRosa.

 

There's a difference between bashing a player and showing that he isn't perfect, or the best in the league.