2008 Hall of Fame ballot

[OleMissCub]

Who do you think should get a vote this year?

[Yanksfan1523]

Slim pickings this year. To me it looks like the best shot for Hawk and Goose to get in. they have always had a decent amount of votes, but with no other clear cut choices this may be the best chance they have. Mc Gwire will most likely get in, although I hope not. Meaning plenty of people feeling they can vote for guys like Baines, Morris, Raines, Tramell or even Rice. Maybe this should be the first year no one gets in!

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Anyone who votes Dawson should easily vote Raines since Raines was a much better player than Dawson.

[rocket]

i'd vote for the goose, tim raines, mark mcgwire, and alan trammell.

[OleMissCub]

I wouldn't vote for Big Mac even if he hadn't been a juicer. He's about as one dimensional a position player as they come.

[Mizzou]

Off the top of my head, I'd vote for Dawson, Blyleven, Donny Baseball and McGwire.

[rocket]

I wouldn't vote for Big Mac even if he hadn't been a juicer. He's about as one dimensional a position player as they come.

 

bert blyleven was one dimensional, all he did was pitch.

 

ops+-ing 162 is a pretty nice one dimension.

[OleMissCub]

 

bert blyleven was one dimensional, all he did was pitch.

 

I wouldn't vote for Big Mac even if he hadn't been a juicer. He's about as one dimensional a position player as they come.

[rocket]

 

bert blyleven was one dimensional, all he did was pitch.

 

I wouldn't vote for Big Mac even if he hadn't been a juicer. He's about as one dimensional a position player as they come.

 

but my point is why punish him for being great at the most important dimension for a position player? mark mcgwire's main purpose for a team was to either get on base or slug the hell out of the ball, which he did very well. and he did win a gold glove, for whatever it's worth.

 

i mean, are hank aaron, ted williams, jimmie foxx, etc. too one dimensional?

[OleMissCub]

 

but my point is why punish him for being great at the most important dimension for a position player? mark mcgwire's main purpose for a team was to either get on base or slug the hell out of the ball, which he did very well.

 

I understand your point here and it's very valid, but I guess I like my baseballer's to at least have 2 of the 5 tools. McGwire had power. The only other tool he came close to possessing was a good glove.

 

i mean, are hank aaron, ted williams, jimmie foxx, etc. too one dimensional?

 

Ah, c'mon now. Other than Foxx and Aaron's similar OPS+, I don't see it.

[imb]

he had a fantastic batting eye, which is more important than any of those stupid "5 tools" anyway

[OleMissCub]

he had a fantastic batting eye

 

That's why he struck out in 25% of his AB's....

 

yes yes, I know he walked out alot, but of course that totally had to do with his batting eye, not pitchers pitching around him or anything.

[TruffleShuffle]

Games Played/WARP3:

 

Luis Aparicio 2599/97.6

Luke Appling 2422/132.2

Dave Bancroft 1913/94.1

Ernie Banks 2528/123.4

Joe Cronin 2124/116.6

Travis Jackson 1656/80.2

Hughie Jennings 1285/85.4

Rabbit Maranville 2670/103.0

Pee Wee Reese 2166/108.6

Phil Rizzuto 1661/82.0

Joe Sewell 1903/105.1

Ozzie Smith 2573/139.1

Joe Tinker 1804/87.4

Bobby Wallace 2383/130.5

Robin Yount 2856/137.0

 

Alan Trammell 2293/129.4

 

 

I was too lazy to do the math, but you can see from the figures that Trammell has a higher WARP3, and a higher WARP3/G, than most of the shortstops in the HoF. Trammell's omission is almost as bad as Santo, in my opinion. And it's not like Trammell is even getting a lot of support - he's averaged about 15% during the last five years. Just goes to show that by and large, the Hall of Fame voters are a bunch of morons.

[TruffleShuffle]

my thought process:

 

Bert Blyleven - 146.3 WARP3. Not really dominant, and played on a lot of bad teams, but deserves credit for his longevity and durability. I voted yes.

Dave Concepcion - great fielder, but couldn't hit, and unlike Ozzie Smith he didn't get on base much. Fairly underrated by the SABR community - he's better than some of the HoF SS - but he still shouldn't be in

Andre Dawson - As much as I loved the Hawk, his career OBP of .323 is pretty terrible. Objectively, a 105.3 WARP3 in 2627 games doesn't come close to being enough for the Hall.

Goose Gossage - I really have no idea. I couldn't differentiate much between him and Lee Smith, and chose to leave them both out, but I can see arguments for having them both in.

Don Mattingly - excellent numbers early in his career, but injuries made him mediocre later. 84.7 WARP3 in 1750 games. Unfortunately he wasn't healthy enough to put up Hall-worthy numbers.

Mark McGwire - voted yes... roids aside, he was a great player and his numbers are easily Hall-worthy.

Dale Murphy - no. would've been nice to see what he could've done if his knees weren't so bad, though.

Tim Raines - 123.9 WARP3 in 2500 games. I voted no - my standards are pretty high for corner outfielders - but I'm rethinking that. Actually after looking into it more, he's better than most of the LF in the Hall. He should be in.

Jim Rice - overrated because he played during a fairly offensive era and played in a hitters' park. 83.2 WARP3 in about 2000 games - nothing special.

Alan Trammell - as stated above, this should be a no-brainer.

[TruffleShuffle]

by the way, lou whitaker should be in too.

[rocket]

he had a fantastic batting eye

 

That's why he struck out in 25% of his AB's....

 

yes yes, I know he walked out alot, but of course that totally had to do with his batting eye, not pitchers pitching around him or anything.

 

would you have voted reggie jackson in?

[OleMissCub]

he had a fantastic batting eye

 

That's why he struck out in 25% of his AB's....

 

yes yes, I know he walked out alot, but of course that totally had to do with his batting eye, not pitchers pitching around him or anything.

 

would you have voted reggie jackson in?

 

Maybe, but only because of the era he played in. I've never liked him at all though, because I view him as just a pure slugger, same as Big Mac.

[rocket]

And I think someone who is a pure slugger, and a damn good one, is easily hall of fame worthy.

[haltz]

That's why he struck out in 25% of his AB's....

That's a terrific denominator for someone who walked 1,300 times.

[imb]

he had a fantastic batting eye

 

That's why he struck out in 25% of his AB's....

 

yes yes, I know he walked out alot, but of course that totally had to do with his batting eye, not pitchers pitching around him or anything.

 

adjusted eqa of .333

 

for reference, pujols' is .340

 

McGwire was a fantastic hitter

[OleMissCub]

adjusted eqa of .333

 

for reference, pujols' is .340

 

McGwire was a fantastic hitter

 

OK, that is helping to convince me a bit more. However, could someone metrically inclined explain to me why someone like McGwire with such a good eqa, etc, would have such a low .BA.

[imb]

adjusted eqa of .333

 

for reference, pujols' is .340

 

McGwire was a fantastic hitter

 

OK, that is helping to convince me a bit more. However, could someone metrically inclined explain to me why someone like McGwire with such a good eqa, etc, would have such a low .BA.

 

I'm going to go ahead and field this one and say that despite his low batting average, he didn't make many outs.

 

.394 career on base percentage

 

that+lots of slugging

 

He was a good hitter.

[haltz]

His batting average was .263 and the league batting average for his career was .262. When you are a three true outcomes (walk, strikeout and homer) monster, you aren't going to hit for a really high average unless you get lucky on balls in play one year or something.

 

Him getting all of two MVP votes in 1998 for his .299/.470/.752 year is hysterical.

[OleMissCub]

I suppose that makes sense. OK, y'all have swayed me.

 

I guess now I'll just have to hate him for being a Turdbird and a juicer.

[rocket]

I suppose that makes sense. OK, y'all have swayed me.

 

I guess now I'll just have to hate him for being a Turdbird and a juicer.

 

ha. i hate mcgwire too, especially for his "not gonna talk about the past" nonsense at congress. but he's a hall of famer, unfortunately.