Torre turns down 1 year deal...TORRE'S TOAST!!!!!!

[Keener98]

While Torre is certainly a classy individual and the Yankee ownership are a bunch of pompous asses, I still believe as a manager, Torre is vastly over-rated. The organization put together one of the best rosters in baseball yearly and spent like no one else.

 

Making the playoffs twelve years in a row is great for most organizations. But winning the WS is the only thing that matters in the Yankee's organization. And Torre was 0-7 in his past 7 tries with some pretty good talent.

 

Just my opinion.

 

While Im not arguing Torre is a great manager, its not his fault that the pitchers he has been given have been over the hill. They have put together a great offensive team, but Cashman has consisitently went out and got over the hill starting pitchers, or overrated injury risk starting pitchers(Pavano, Wright). That team the way it is comprised, the manager doesnt have to do much at all, except manage the bullpen. So while I dont think Torre is a great manager, I dont think the failures of the Yankees in the playoffs can be placed solely on him. When you talk bout being overrated, you need to look at brian Cashman before looking anywhere else.

 

I agree with you to a certain extent. Torre is not the only one to blame for not winning a Championship the past 7 years. But many look at Torre's early years as a Yankee manager and give him much of the credit for 4 WS titles in 5 years. If he gets the credit for the championships, he's got to take his share of the blame for the lack of championships.

 

I think LOTS of managers could have accomplished what Torre did in his 12 years if they were given his roster. I'll bet a guy like Bobby Cox would've even faired better than Torre. IMO, Cox made more with less talent. He unfortunately had his best teams when the Yankees were loaded like no one else.

 

I don't think Torre is a bad manager. I just don't think he's one of the best ever. His record in St. Louis and Atlanta (though he was much younger/inexperienced as a manager) lend to that thought. IMO, he's the "Phil Jackson" of baseball.

 

I'd be interested to see what he's able to do with a much less talented roster and a franchise willing to spend much less to replace a team's unproductive/aging/hurt peices.

 

The thing is, when the Yankees won the 4 titles it was mainly all homegrown talent, and before the Yankees started spending like idiots. What could Cox have done differently in the playoffs then Torre? Its not Torres fault his pitching has sucked, and Arod has struggled in the playoffs. Not really sure how Cox would have changed that.

[PackLandVA]

While Torre is certainly a classy individual and the Yankee ownership are a bunch of pompous asses, I still believe as a manager, Torre is vastly over-rated. The organization put together one of the best rosters in baseball yearly and spent like no one else.

 

Making the playoffs twelve years in a row is great for most organizations. But winning the WS is the only thing that matters in the Yankee's organization. And Torre was 0-7 in his past 7 tries with some pretty good talent.

 

Just my opinion.

 

While Im not arguing Torre is a great manager, its not his fault that the pitchers he has been given have been over the hill. They have put together a great offensive team, but Cashman has consisitently went out and got over the hill starting pitchers, or overrated injury risk starting pitchers(Pavano, Wright). That team the way it is comprised, the manager doesnt have to do much at all, except manage the bullpen. So while I dont think Torre is a great manager, I dont think the failures of the Yankees in the playoffs can be placed solely on him. When you talk bout being overrated, you need to look at brian Cashman before looking anywhere else.

 

I agree with you to a certain extent. Torre is not the only one to blame for not winning a Championship the past 7 years. But many look at Torre's early years as a Yankee manager and give him much of the credit for 4 WS titles in 5 years. If he gets the credit for the championships, he's got to take his share of the blame for the lack of championships.

 

I think LOTS of managers could have accomplished what Torre did in his 12 years if they were given his roster. I'll bet a guy like Bobby Cox would've even faired better than Torre. IMO, Cox made more with less talent. He unfortunately had his best teams when the Yankees were loaded like no one else.

 

I don't think Torre is a bad manager. I just don't think he's one of the best ever. His record in St. Louis and Atlanta (though he was much younger/inexperienced as a manager) lend to that thought. IMO, he's the "Phil Jackson" of baseball.

 

I'd be interested to see what he's able to do with a much less talented roster and a franchise willing to spend much less to replace a team's unproductive/aging/hurt peices.

 

The thing is, when the Yankees won the 4 titles it was mainly all homegrown talent, and before the Yankees started spending like idiots. What could Cox have done differently in the playoffs then Torre? Its not Torres fault his pitching has sucked, and Arod has struggled in the playoffs. Not really sure how Cox would have changed that.

 

What would Cox have done differently? With the same roster? Nothing, probably. And he would've probably won 4 WS in 5 years, too.

 

Again, I'm not saying he was a bad manager. I think he was a good manager. I just think a lot of people could've done what he did with the make up of his rosters each year.

 

And by the way, the Yankees still had the highest payroll in baseball each year. Their roster was not "homegrown the first year he won a WS. He took over a team that was just entering its prime with a mixture of star veterans for core players (Boggs, O'Neill, Bernie Williams[farm product], Wetteland, Tino Martinez, etc) and rising superstars (Jeter, Rivera, Posada, Pettitte, etc). Their minor league system was loaded entering the mid 90's which allowed them to not only develop talent but also trade really good prospects for already established stars/experienced subs/3-5 starters/set-up men/super utility guys, etc.

 

In 1996 the Yankee's team payroll was only $58 million, but still 10% higher than the next closest team in the AL. And ever since, the payroll and gap got bigger and bigger and bigger. And when their vets got old, unproductive or both, they opened up the pocket books and brought in the best players that money could buy. They haven't had the most success recently with that style of management, but it worked wonders in keeping Torre's first World Series team competitive and dominant in the years that followed, thus allowing them to win the WS 4 out of 5 years.

 

I really believe a lot of managers in baseball could've accomplished as much as Torre has given the same rosters and abilities to replace broken parts.

[Guest]

Wait, someone is using bobby cox as an example of how managers win in the playoffs? I hope not!

 

The reality is the manager doesn't make a huge difference during games but can make a difference managing the team off the field and dealing with egos. That seems to me to be where Joe and Phil Jackson have excelled. They let talent win instead of interfering with it. I can't wait until Girardi disciplines Jeter! :shock:

[PackLandVA]

Bobby Cox put a less superior team into the playoffs as much as Joe Torre has. Switch teams and I'd bet Cox does no worse than Torre. Bobby Cox would've won multiple WS but for the 5 year period where the Yankees were far and away the best team in baseball.

 

Would Torre have done as well with those Atlanta Brave teams??

[Guest]

Bobby Cox put a less superior team into the playoffs as much as Joe Torre has. Switch teams and I'd bet Cox does no worse than Torre. Bobby Cox would've won multiple WS but for the 5 year period where the Yankees were far and away the best team in baseball.

 

Would Torre have done as well with those Atlanta Brave teams??

 

Cox had two of the top 10 pitchers in the last 20 or 25 years in Maddux and Glavine and then John Smoltz as well in their primes for a number of years and only won 1 WS. And they were in the playoffs every year. I would bet a lot of money that Torre could have won one WS with those Atlanta teams from 1991 to 2005.

[CuseCubFan69]

ESPN just said the Yanks have reached out to 3 people so far. Mattingly, Girardi, and Tony Pena.

 

ESPN has just announced it's changing its call letters to YES2.

 

That's funny....and close to being true. Thank God for the Red Sox because it makes them talk about the Yanks only 75% of the time while the Sox nab about another 20%.