Angel Guzman

[Banghart]

no. unless he is a reliever and there are tons of relief options available, you can't count on him to be a key member of the bullpen. you also can't go into a season expecting this guy to be a starting pitcher and counting on a minor leaguer to replace him come the inevitable injury.

 

 

yes, anything he gives us will be gravy, but unless the pitching staff is completely stacked, you can't put him on the 25 man roster. the lesson that should have been learned long ago is to not count on a chronically injured pitcher to be a key member of your staff. either he's the best sixth man out of the pen in baseball, or I don't want him on the team.

But that is just it. The Cubs have a full rotation going into next year. They have five guys who pitched at least a 100 innings this year that they control through at least next year. If Guzman, or Prior for that matter, show up and prove that they are healthy enough to take the ball every fifth day then Marshall can be moved into the bullpen as the long/swingman. The bullpen also has plenty of depth of players that the Cubs control next year. Unless I am inaccurate about the contract status of Wuertz the Cubs have Dempster, Howry, Eyre (player option), Marmol, and Wuertz. The Cubs have all kinds of options to fill the bottom of the pen with (Gallagher, Hart, Cotts, Ohman, Pignatello, and others). The Cubs aren't counting on these guys to be healthy. However, if either of Guzman or Prior can come back and pitch like they are capable it makes the Cubs that much better. These are low risk high reward type moves that this team should make.

 

-Banghart

[NCCubFan]

Has anybody seen any confirmation that Guzman needs TJS? As of this morning I still haven't seen any word about it on cubs.com, chicagosports.com, or espn.com.

[jjgman21]

no. unless he is a reliever and there are tons of relief options available, you can't count on him to be a key member of the bullpen. you also can't go into a season expecting this guy to be a starting pitcher and counting on a minor leaguer to replace him come the inevitable injury.

 

 

yes, anything he gives us will be gravy, but unless the pitching staff is completely stacked, you can't put him on the 25 man roster. the lesson that should have been learned long ago is to not count on a chronically injured pitcher to be a key member of your staff. either he's the best sixth man out of the pen in baseball, or I don't want him on the team.

But that is just it. The Cubs have a full rotation going into next year. They have five guys who pitched at least a 100 innings this year that they control through at least next year. If Guzman, or Prior for that matter, show up and prove that they are healthy enough to take the ball every fifth day then Marshall can be moved into the bullpen as the long/swingman. The bullpen also has plenty of depth of players that the Cubs control next year. Unless I am inaccurate about the contract status of Wuertz the Cubs have Dempster, Howry, Eyre (player option), Marmol, and Wuertz. The Cubs have all kinds of options to fill the bottom of the pen with (Gallagher, Hart, Cotts, Ohman, Pignatello, and others). The Cubs aren't counting on these guys to be healthy. However, if either of Guzman or Prior can come back and pitch like they are capable it makes the Cubs that much better. These are low risk high reward type moves that this team should make.

 

-Banghart

 

re: the bold, you're missing my point. my point is the same people who have lined up on this board to say Guzman should be untouchable for the past three years are now lining up to say that even if he is about to undergo major surgery, he still has something to offer the Cubs. in a way, my post is conceding that point. Guz has a place, the last man out of the pen, if the organization is stacked with pitching.

[Banghart]

re: the bold, you're missing my point. my point is the same people who have lined up on this board to say Guzman should be untouchable for the past three years are now lining up to say that even if he is about to undergo major surgery, he still has something to offer the Cubs. in a way, my post is conceding that point. Guz has a place, the last man out of the pen, if the organization is stacked with pitching.

So why are we arguing then? I think I just showed how Guzman place is either going to be a fifth starter or the last man out of the pen, and that the Cubs have plenty of options to fill both of those spots next year if he isn't healthy.

 

-Banghart

[jjgman21]

re: the bold, you're missing my point. my point is the same people who have lined up on this board to say Guzman should be untouchable for the past three years are now lining up to say that even if he is about to undergo major surgery, he still has something to offer the Cubs. in a way, my post is conceding that point. Guz has a place, the last man out of the pen, if the organization is stacked with pitching.

So why are we arguing then? I think I just showed how Guzman place is either going to be a fifth starter or the last man out of the pen, and that the Cubs have plenty of options to fill both of those spots next year if he isn't healthy.

 

-Banghart

 

Guzman won't be ready by next year if he has surgery, and even when he comes back, he can't be a fifth starter unless the minor leagues have 2-3 major league ready starters to fill his place after the inevitable injury. predicting the minor leagues to have that depth, or the major league pen to have that kind of depth, in 2009 is foolish. that being said, you have shown nothing.

 

the gravy many think we may get out of Guzman is more like a third rate soup bone. his stuff may be electric, but two months of electric stuff only to leave the team in a bind for the remaining four months of the season is a risk we all should now know is not one that we should take. the only place for such a pitcher is the last guy out of the pen, if the pen is stacked.

[nilodnayr]

So why is this just now getting done in Sept?

 

i don't know much about injuries and whatnot, but this is what rotoworld said on June 8th, and it might be why the Cubs waited.

 

An MRI showed that Angel Guzman has a strained medial ligament in his pitching elbow.

The good news for Guzman is he didn't injure the ulnar collateral ligament which is associated with Tommy John surgery. He won't touch a baseball for at least two weeks in an effort to let the ligament heal.

 

So further proof the Cubs medical staff is full of jackasses

 

So you're saying it's impossible it wasn't damaged further over the last 3 full months?

 

And are these type of tests done by some sort of exclusive "Cubs medical staff?" I thought things like this were handled by doctors that treated players in general from around the league.

 

I really dont see how in his very limited rehab stint he could have hurt it that much too cause the problem. To me it seems more likely the problem was there in June, and they either mis evaluated it(its happened before) or they overlooked it. My guess is the problem was there in June but was mis diagnosed, which sucks cause he loses 3 months of rehab time.

 

Maybe...but again, isn't this the result of evaluations from national medical resources as opoosed to "the Cubs' medical staff?" I'm not saying they haven't screwed up, but I think it's pretty shortsighted to pin this on the Cubs organization alone. Plenty of doctors outside of the club have been involved along the way.

 

Maybe I'm going crazy (since I can't find it), but I swear I read in a Will Carroll article that medial was synonymous with ulnar.

[SauerFan]

Maybe I'm going crazy (since I can't find it), but I swear I read in a Will Carroll article that medial was synonymous with ulnar.

 

In the upper extremity:

medial=ulnar

lateral=radial

 

Norm

[CuseCubFan69]

At least Prior had a taste, this poor kid just has had a horrible time staying healthy. I've never seen him pitch, does he put an undue strain on his shoulder or elbow when he throws? This is just too frequent to think he's ever throwing normally.