Z's Explanation

[Keener98]

Jesus Christ, I wasn't indicting every Cubs fan everywhere; just the ones in this thread who are unnecessarily villifying Zambrano.

 

If Carpenter was in the same situation, I'm sure there would be some Cardinals fans doing the same thing, and I would say the same thing I said here.

 

So we are villifying him by wanting him to stop sucking and start pitching like the ace he is? Ya sounds like we are real irrational.

 

you've been villifying him from your very first post.

 

And no one said anything about the fact that wanting him to stop sucking is a bad thing. But that yesterday was beyond that.

 

We are going to have to agree to disagree because you arent going to change my mind that there was nothing wrong with what took place yesterday from the fans.

 

I was just about to say the same thing, because I think yesterday was bushleague and classless.

 

So was his performence...

 

hahahahaha.

 

that's a good one.

 

yea z's all out hustle and zeal and passion for which he plays the game is the complete opposite of bushleague and classless. But I know you need to feel justification for the way he was treated by supposed fans yesterday.

 

I don't care about hustle, Zeal, and Passion. I care about results, and the man isn't getting it done when we need him most. It's really that simple.

 

As someone who has played competitive sports through college, there are a few things players directly control. You can work hard, you can want it badly, you can practice and dedicate yourself to a trade, but when you hit the field, you can't control what opponents do. I expect the best effort and committment to winning from my players. Seomteimes you just don't have good stuff and there isn't anything you can do it about. It is these situations in which I feel players need support not villification.l

 

But Z had good stuff yesterday until his base running blunder and he got pissed and took it out to the field and started off by throwing 6 straight balls.

[Keener98]

Keener, get a grip. You may be obsessed with what have you done for me lately,, but doing that off of one month is absurd. you know that.

 

Its his entire season as a whole, and everything that has encompassed it. He has brought alot of this on himself and you know that. Declaring you are going to win a Cy Young award and then crapping the bed the 1st 2 months of the season. Then getting into a fight with his own teammate. Then using his contract as an excuse as to why hes pitching bad, and then sign the contract and continue to pitch bad.

 

So what, he's not allowed to have a down season. Are you turning into Dan Duquette on us? (I doubt you even get that reference)

 

Pitchers have down years. Pitchers have down months. Zambrano is human.

 

Well most staff aces dont have down years like hes had, after signing a big ass contract.

[C.C.]

Jesus Christ, I wasn't indicting every Cubs fan everywhere; just the ones in this thread who are unnecessarily villifying Zambrano.

 

If Carpenter was in the same situation, I'm sure there would be some Cardinals fans doing the same thing, and I would say the same thing I said here.

 

So we are villifying him by wanting him to stop sucking and start pitching like the ace he is? Ya sounds like we are real irrational.

 

you've been villifying him from your very first post.

 

And no one said anything about the fact that wanting him to stop sucking is a bad thing. But that yesterday was beyond that.

 

We are going to have to agree to disagree because you arent going to change my mind that there was nothing wrong with what took place yesterday from the fans.

 

I was just about to say the same thing, because I think yesterday was bushleague and classless.

 

So was his performence...

 

hahahahaha.

 

that's a good one.

 

yea z's all out hustle and zeal and passion for which he plays the game is the complete opposite of bushleague and classless. But I know you need to feel justification for the way he was treated by supposed fans yesterday.

 

I don't care about hustle, Zeal, and Passion. I care about results, and the man isn't getting it done when we need him most. It's really that simple.

 

As someone who has played competitive sports through college, there are a few things players directly control. You can work hard, you can want it badly, you can practice and dedicate yourself to a trade, but when you hit the field, you can't control what opponents do. I expect the best effort and committment to winning from my players. Seomteimes you just don't have good stuff and there isn't anything you can do it about. It is these situations in which I feel players need support not villification.l

 

More times then not it's not about Z having good stuff. It's about him losing his concentration and composure on the mound.

[Mephistopheles]

Jesus Christ, I wasn't indicting every Cubs fan everywhere; just the ones in this thread who are unnecessarily villifying Zambrano.

 

If Carpenter was in the same situation, I'm sure there would be some Cardinals fans doing the same thing, and I would say the same thing I said here.

 

So we are villifying him by wanting him to stop sucking and start pitching like the ace he is? Ya sounds like we are real irrational.

 

you've been villifying him from your very first post.

 

And no one said anything about the fact that wanting him to stop sucking is a bad thing. But that yesterday was beyond that.

 

We are going to have to agree to disagree because you arent going to change my mind that there was nothing wrong with what took place yesterday from the fans.

 

I was just about to say the same thing, because I think yesterday was bushleague and classless.

 

So was his performence...

 

hahahahaha.

 

that's a good one.

 

yea z's all out hustle and zeal and passion for which he plays the game is the complete opposite of bushleague and classless. But I know you need to feel justification for the way he was treated by supposed fans yesterday.

 

I don't care about hustle, Zeal, and Passion. I care about results, and the man isn't getting it done when we need him most. It's really that simple.

 

And this simple fact as you put it doesn't mean jack when it comes to whether or not he will produce over the higher leverage month of september

[badger1679666666]

Jesus Christ, I wasn't indicting every Cubs fan everywhere; just the ones in this thread who are unnecessarily villifying Zambrano.

 

If Carpenter was in the same situation, I'm sure there would be some Cardinals fans doing the same thing, and I would say the same thing I said here.

 

So we are villifying him by wanting him to stop sucking and start pitching like the ace he is? Ya sounds like we are real irrational.

 

you've been villifying him from your very first post.

 

And no one said anything about the fact that wanting him to stop sucking is a bad thing. But that yesterday was beyond that.

 

We are going to have to agree to disagree because you arent going to change my mind that there was nothing wrong with what took place yesterday from the fans.

 

I was just about to say the same thing, because I think yesterday was bushleague and classless.

 

So was his performence...

 

hahahahaha.

 

that's a good one.

 

yea z's all out hustle and zeal and passion for which he plays the game is the complete opposite of bushleague and classless. But I know you need to feel justification for the way he was treated by supposed fans yesterday.

 

I don't care about hustle, Zeal, and Passion. I care about results, and the man isn't getting it done when we need him most. It's really that simple.

 

As someone who has played competitive sports through college, there are a few things players directly control. You can work hard, you can want it badly, you can practice and dedicate yourself to a trade, but when you hit the field, you can't control what opponents do. I expect the best effort and committment to winning from my players. Seomteimes you just don't have good stuff and there isn't anything you can do it about. It is these situations in which I feel players need support not villification.l

 

More times then not it's not about Z having good stuff. It's about him losing his concentration and composure on the mound.

 

Then booing him would be even MORE counterproductive. It would rattle him even more.

[kente777]

Keener, get a grip. You may be obsessed with what have you done for me lately,, but doing that off of one month is absurd. you know that.

 

Its his entire season as a whole, and everything that has encompassed it. He has brought alot of this on himself and you know that. Declaring you are going to win a Cy Young award and then crapping the bed the 1st 2 months of the season. Then getting into a fight with his own teammate. Then using his contract as an excuse as to why hes pitching bad, and then sign the contract and continue to pitch bad.

 

So what, he's not allowed to have a down season. Are you turning into Dan Duquette on us? (I doubt you even get that reference)

 

Pitchers have down years. Pitchers have down months. Zambrano is human.

 

You mean, Mr. "I'm gonna win the Cy Young award" Zambrano? You mean Mr. Point to the sky when he goes to the dugout??? I didn't see him pointing to the sky when he was taken out. The guy thinks he's better than everyone else. That might be human, but it's also arrogant and presumptious.

 

I'm sick of his mouth. Just shut the hell up and pitch the damn baseball.

Edited September 4, 2007 by kente777

[Keener98]

You used this years stats whereas he used 3 year stats to show his point. I think your point would be made if Peavys 3 year stats were like those that you posted but if not, what really is your point of posting just 1 years worth of stats?

 

Holy jesus the irony is frightening.

 

We arent even talking in the same context here, but whatever. I understand Z has been good for us in the past, and I also understand Z will be good for us in the future. However that still doesnt mean hes free of criticism when he does suck like he has this year.

[rynefan]

And the minute that base-running blunder occurred, I bet a majority of Cubs fans predicted what would happen next, and it did. He made a mistake and he is a professional. Clear it out of your head and get over it.

[Mephistopheles]

Keener, get a grip. You may be obsessed with what have you done for me lately,, but doing that off of one month is absurd. you know that.

 

Its his entire season as a whole, and everything that has encompassed it. He has brought alot of this on himself and you know that. Declaring you are going to win a Cy Young award and then crapping the bed the 1st 2 months of the season. Then getting into a fight with his own teammate. Then using his contract as an excuse as to why hes pitching bad, and then sign the contract and continue to pitch bad.

 

So what, he's not allowed to have a down season. Are you turning into Dan Duquette on us? (I doubt you even get that reference)

 

Pitchers have down years. Pitchers have down months. Zambrano is human.

 

Well most staff aces dont have down years like hes had, after signing a big ass contract.

 

Incorrect once again. Zambrano never had a contract until August. His struggles earlier in the season have little to do with the contract. Most staff aces DO have down years like the one he's had. You didn't get the reference.

[C.C.]

Jesus Christ, I wasn't indicting every Cubs fan everywhere; just the ones in this thread who are unnecessarily villifying Zambrano.

 

If Carpenter was in the same situation, I'm sure there would be some Cardinals fans doing the same thing, and I would say the same thing I said here.

 

So we are villifying him by wanting him to stop sucking and start pitching like the ace he is? Ya sounds like we are real irrational.

 

you've been villifying him from your very first post.

 

And no one said anything about the fact that wanting him to stop sucking is a bad thing. But that yesterday was beyond that.

 

We are going to have to agree to disagree because you arent going to change my mind that there was nothing wrong with what took place yesterday from the fans.

 

I was just about to say the same thing, because I think yesterday was bushleague and classless.

 

So was his performence...

 

hahahahaha.

 

that's a good one.

 

yea z's all out hustle and zeal and passion for which he plays the game is the complete opposite of bushleague and classless. But I know you need to feel justification for the way he was treated by supposed fans yesterday.

 

I don't care about hustle, Zeal, and Passion. I care about results, and the man isn't getting it done when we need him most. It's really that simple.

 

As someone who has played competitive sports through college, there are a few things players directly control. You can work hard, you can want it badly, you can practice and dedicate yourself to a trade, but when you hit the field, you can't control what opponents do. I expect the best effort and committment to winning from my players. Seomteimes you just don't have good stuff and there isn't anything you can do it about. It is these situations in which I feel players need support not villification.l

 

More times then not it's not about Z having good stuff. It's about him losing his concentration and composure on the mound.

 

Then booing him would be even MORE counterproductive. It would rattle him even more.

 

Put it this way. If this rattles him, I would hate to see him in the World Series.

[kente777]

Jesus Christ, I wasn't indicting every Cubs fan everywhere; just the ones in this thread who are unnecessarily villifying Zambrano.

 

If Carpenter was in the same situation, I'm sure there would be some Cardinals fans doing the same thing, and I would say the same thing I said here.

 

So we are villifying him by wanting him to stop sucking and start pitching like the ace he is? Ya sounds like we are real irrational.

 

you've been villifying him from your very first post.

 

And no one said anything about the fact that wanting him to stop sucking is a bad thing. But that yesterday was beyond that.

 

We are going to have to agree to disagree because you arent going to change my mind that there was nothing wrong with what took place yesterday from the fans.

 

I was just about to say the same thing, because I think yesterday was bushleague and classless.

 

So was his performence...

 

hahahahaha.

 

that's a good one.

 

yea z's all out hustle and zeal and passion for which he plays the game is the complete opposite of bushleague and classless. But I know you need to feel justification for the way he was treated by supposed fans yesterday.

 

I don't care about hustle, Zeal, and Passion. I care about results, and the man isn't getting it done when we need him most. It's really that simple.

 

As someone who has played competitive sports through college, there are a few things players directly control. You can work hard, you can want it badly, you can practice and dedicate yourself to a trade, but when you hit the field, you can't control what opponents do. I expect the best effort and committment to winning from my players. Seomteimes you just don't have good stuff and there isn't anything you can do it about. It is these situations in which I feel players need support not villification.l

 

More times then not it's not about Z having good stuff. It's about him losing his concentration and composure on the mound.

 

Then booing him would be even MORE counterproductive. It would rattle him even more.

 

Put it this way. If this rattles him, I would hate to see him in the World Series.

 

Don't worry...you won't.

[Mephistopheles]

You used this years stats whereas he used 3 year stats to show his point. I think your point would be made if Peavys 3 year stats were like those that you posted but if not, what really is your point of posting just 1 years worth of stats?

 

Holy jesus the irony is frightening.

 

We arent even talking in the same context here, but whatever. I understand Z has been good for us in the past, and I also understand Z will be good for us in the future. However that still doesnt mean hes free of criticism when he does suck like he has this year.

 

People who are smart won't criticize him because they know all pitchers struggle at some point. You said it yourself, he will be good for us in the future and he's been good for us in the past. What's the point of criticizing him? It's not going to change anything. It probably has very little to do with anything he can change. So really you're criticizing a pitcher because he's not pitching like a hall of famer. Jesus you're tough. He's mortal.

[Keener98]

Jesus Christ, I wasn't indicting every Cubs fan everywhere; just the ones in this thread who are unnecessarily villifying Zambrano.

 

If Carpenter was in the same situation, I'm sure there would be some Cardinals fans doing the same thing, and I would say the same thing I said here.

 

So we are villifying him by wanting him to stop sucking and start pitching like the ace he is? Ya sounds like we are real irrational.

 

you've been villifying him from your very first post.

 

And no one said anything about the fact that wanting him to stop sucking is a bad thing. But that yesterday was beyond that.

 

We are going to have to agree to disagree because you arent going to change my mind that there was nothing wrong with what took place yesterday from the fans.

 

I was just about to say the same thing, because I think yesterday was bushleague and classless.

 

So was his performence...

 

hahahahaha.

 

that's a good one.

 

yea z's all out hustle and zeal and passion for which he plays the game is the complete opposite of bushleague and classless. But I know you need to feel justification for the way he was treated by supposed fans yesterday.

 

I don't care about hustle, Zeal, and Passion. I care about results, and the man isn't getting it done when we need him most. It's really that simple.

 

And this simple fact as you put it doesn't mean jack when it comes to whether or not he will produce over the higher leverage month of september

 

Do you put any stock into the fact that his stats over the course of his career in the month of Sept arent very good? Hes had 2 very good Septembers, but only 1 of those were when we were in a pennant race(2004) Other than that his stats in Sept have been really bad. Im asking an honest question here, is that too small a sample, or do you think some stock should be put into it?

[kente777]

You used this years stats whereas he used 3 year stats to show his point. I think your point would be made if Peavys 3 year stats were like those that you posted but if not, what really is your point of posting just 1 years worth of stats?

 

Holy jesus the irony is frightening.

 

He's mortal.

 

Yeah, and one hell of an arrogant one.

[kente777]

You used this years stats whereas he used 3 year stats to show his point. I think your point would be made if Peavys 3 year stats were like those that you posted but if not, what really is your point of posting just 1 years worth of stats?

 

Holy jesus the irony is frightening.

 

He's mortal.

 

Yeah, and one hell of an arrogant one.

 

Actually, let me add an idiot as well. Anyone who predicts he will be the Cy Young winner is arrogant and an idiot.

Edited September 4, 2007 by kente777

[Mephistopheles]

Jesus Christ, I wasn't indicting every Cubs fan everywhere; just the ones in this thread who are unnecessarily villifying Zambrano.

 

If Carpenter was in the same situation, I'm sure there would be some Cardinals fans doing the same thing, and I would say the same thing I said here.

 

So we are villifying him by wanting him to stop sucking and start pitching like the ace he is? Ya sounds like we are real irrational.

 

you've been villifying him from your very first post.

 

And no one said anything about the fact that wanting him to stop sucking is a bad thing. But that yesterday was beyond that.

 

We are going to have to agree to disagree because you arent going to change my mind that there was nothing wrong with what took place yesterday from the fans.

 

I was just about to say the same thing, because I think yesterday was bushleague and classless.

 

So was his performence...

 

hahahahaha.

 

that's a good one.

 

yea z's all out hustle and zeal and passion for which he plays the game is the complete opposite of bushleague and classless. But I know you need to feel justification for the way he was treated by supposed fans yesterday.

 

I don't care about hustle, Zeal, and Passion. I care about results, and the man isn't getting it done when we need him most. It's really that simple.

 

And this simple fact as you put it doesn't mean jack when it comes to whether or not he will produce over the higher leverage month of september

 

Do you put any stock into the fact that his stats over the course of his career in the month of Sept arent very good? Hes had 2 very good Septembers, but only 1 of those were when we were in a pennant race(2004) Other than that his stats in Sept have been really bad. Im asking an honest question here, is that too small a sample, or do you think some stock should be put into it?

 

His career ERA is 3.41. His career ERA in September is 3.48.

 

(Actually I don't think that figure includes his last outing, but still there's no statistically significant difference between his ERA in September and his ERA over the full season).

[Keener98]

Keener, get a grip. You may be obsessed with what have you done for me lately,, but doing that off of one month is absurd. you know that.

 

Its his entire season as a whole, and everything that has encompassed it. He has brought alot of this on himself and you know that. Declaring you are going to win a Cy Young award and then crapping the bed the 1st 2 months of the season. Then getting into a fight with his own teammate. Then using his contract as an excuse as to why hes pitching bad, and then sign the contract and continue to pitch bad.

 

So what, he's not allowed to have a down season. Are you turning into Dan Duquette on us? (I doubt you even get that reference)

 

Pitchers have down years. Pitchers have down months. Zambrano is human.

 

Well most staff aces dont have down years like hes had, after signing a big ass contract.

 

Incorrect once again. Zambrano never had a contract until August. His struggles earlier in the season have little to do with the contract. Most staff aces DO have down years like the one he's had. You didn't get the reference.

 

No I didnt get the reference. But Z himself said the contract situation was bothering him so it had some effect, unless that was just one of Z's excuses. I cant think of many aces who in the beginning of the prime of their career have struggled and had the kind of down year like Z, Id say its not common.

[badger1679666666]

Jesus Christ, I wasn't indicting every Cubs fan everywhere; just the ones in this thread who are unnecessarily villifying Zambrano.

 

If Carpenter was in the same situation, I'm sure there would be some Cardinals fans doing the same thing, and I would say the same thing I said here.

 

So we are villifying him by wanting him to stop sucking and start pitching like the ace he is? Ya sounds like we are real irrational.

 

you've been villifying him from your very first post.

 

And no one said anything about the fact that wanting him to stop sucking is a bad thing. But that yesterday was beyond that.

 

We are going to have to agree to disagree because you arent going to change my mind that there was nothing wrong with what took place yesterday from the fans.

 

I was just about to say the same thing, because I think yesterday was bushleague and classless.

 

So was his performence...

 

hahahahaha.

 

that's a good one.

 

yea z's all out hustle and zeal and passion for which he plays the game is the complete opposite of bushleague and classless. But I know you need to feel justification for the way he was treated by supposed fans yesterday.

 

I don't care about hustle, Zeal, and Passion. I care about results, and the man isn't getting it done when we need him most. It's really that simple.

 

As someone who has played competitive sports through college, there are a few things players directly control. You can work hard, you can want it badly, you can practice and dedicate yourself to a trade, but when you hit the field, you can't control what opponents do. I expect the best effort and committment to winning from my players. Seomteimes you just don't have good stuff and there isn't anything you can do it about. It is these situations in which I feel players need support not villification.l

 

More times then not it's not about Z having good stuff. It's about him losing his concentration and composure on the mound.

 

Then booing him would be even MORE counterproductive. It would rattle him even more.

 

Put it this way. If this rattles him, I would hate to see him in the World Series.

 

Like someone else said early, I think Z saw the fans almost like his teammates. He wanted nothing more than to stay in Chicago, and he took a paycut to do so (Mets, yanks, Bo Sox would have given him more money for sure). So what happened yesterday was sobering for him. Maybe he won't be disillusioned anymore I guess.

 

I don't think pressure rattles him, I think he felt betrayed by "family".

[Guest]

Keener, get a grip. You may be obsessed with what have you done for me lately,, but doing that off of one month is absurd. you know that.

 

Its his entire season as a whole, and everything that has encompassed it. He has brought alot of this on himself and you know that. Declaring you are going to win a Cy Young award and then crapping the bed the 1st 2 months of the season. Then getting into a fight with his own teammate. Then using his contract as an excuse as to why hes pitching bad, and then sign the contract and continue to pitch bad.

 

So what, he's not allowed to have a down season. Are you turning into Dan Duquette on us? (I doubt you even get that reference)

 

Pitchers have down years. Pitchers have down months. Zambrano is human.

 

Well most staff aces dont have down years like hes had, after signing a big ass contract.

 

Gah? Most staff aces don't have down years? You sure you don't want to rescind that comment?

[Mephistopheles]

Actually, let me add an idiot as well. Anyone who predicts he will be the Cy Young winner is arrogant and an idiot.

 

This is untrue. If I am Pedro Martinez and it's the offseason between 1999 and 2000, and I say I predict I will win the CYA, does that make me an idiot or arrogant? That makes me betting on the odds. But this is a tangent but there are a few cases where predicting a CYA for yourself isn't idiotic. I don't have a problem with that comment. It came off wrong, but it seemed to me like that was his goal. Frankly, I'd rather his goal be to win the CYA than make the playoffs, because of he does the first the second would come.

[badger1679666666]

 

Actually, let me add an idiot as well.

 

Much like the fans at wrigley and those who advocate booing.

 

Show me one athlete that has reached this level without arrogance?

 

You have to be arrogant to reach the professional ranks. Not all of them show it. And the Cy Young stuff is just Z being Z.

[Keener98]

Jesus Christ, I wasn't indicting every Cubs fan everywhere; just the ones in this thread who are unnecessarily villifying Zambrano.

 

If Carpenter was in the same situation, I'm sure there would be some Cardinals fans doing the same thing, and I would say the same thing I said here.

 

So we are villifying him by wanting him to stop sucking and start pitching like the ace he is? Ya sounds like we are real irrational.

 

you've been villifying him from your very first post.

 

And no one said anything about the fact that wanting him to stop sucking is a bad thing. But that yesterday was beyond that.

 

We are going to have to agree to disagree because you arent going to change my mind that there was nothing wrong with what took place yesterday from the fans.

 

I was just about to say the same thing, because I think yesterday was bushleague and classless.

 

So was his performence...

 

hahahahaha.

 

that's a good one.

 

yea z's all out hustle and zeal and passion for which he plays the game is the complete opposite of bushleague and classless. But I know you need to feel justification for the way he was treated by supposed fans yesterday.

 

I don't care about hustle, Zeal, and Passion. I care about results, and the man isn't getting it done when we need him most. It's really that simple.

 

And this simple fact as you put it doesn't mean jack when it comes to whether or not he will produce over the higher leverage month of september

 

Do you put any stock into the fact that his stats over the course of his career in the month of Sept arent very good? Hes had 2 very good Septembers, but only 1 of those were when we were in a pennant race(2004) Other than that his stats in Sept have been really bad. Im asking an honest question here, is that too small a sample, or do you think some stock should be put into it?

 

His career ERA is 3.41. His career ERA in September is 3.48.

 

(Actually I don't think that figure includes his last outing, but still there's no statistically significant difference between his ERA in September and his ERA over the full season).

 

That Sept ERA could be a little skewed though by the fact that hes had 2 years, 2004 and 2002, one a pennant race the other not, where his ERA was way under 2.00 Every other year in his career is over 4.00 So like I said I dont know if its too small a sampling to see a noticable causation, but I think it could be something to keep an eye on. I dont want you to get me wrong, Im not blaming his Sept numbers on his mentality at all, I just really wonder if since he throws sooo many pitches over a course of a season, if by Sept his arm isnt just really worn out.

[badger1679666666]

Well most staff aces dont have down years like hes had, after signing a big ass contract.

 

This statement is unequivocally false.

[Mephistopheles]

Keener, get a grip. You may be obsessed with what have you done for me lately,, but doing that off of one month is absurd. you know that.

 

Its his entire season as a whole, and everything that has encompassed it. He has brought alot of this on himself and you know that. Declaring you are going to win a Cy Young award and then crapping the bed the 1st 2 months of the season. Then getting into a fight with his own teammate. Then using his contract as an excuse as to why hes pitching bad, and then sign the contract and continue to pitch bad.

 

So what, he's not allowed to have a down season. Are you turning into Dan Duquette on us? (I doubt you even get that reference)

 

Pitchers have down years. Pitchers have down months. Zambrano is human.

 

Well most staff aces dont have down years like hes had, after signing a big ass contract.

 

Incorrect once again. Zambrano never had a contract until August. His struggles earlier in the season have little to do with the contract. Most staff aces DO have down years like the one he's had. You didn't get the reference.

 

No I didnt get the reference. But Z himself said the contract situation was bothering him so it had some effect, unless that was just one of Z's excuses. I cant think of many aces who in the beginning of the prime of their career have struggled and had the kind of down year like Z, Id say its not common.

 

After Clemens last season with the Sox, the current GM Dan Duquette said that Clemens was in the twilight in his career (or something like that I don't know the exact quote), this after coming off of four consecutive years of winning 11 games or yes (I know the metric is bad but at the time it was probably THE way to grade pitchers so think of it as using ERA to make the connection now). So Duquette traded him. Then. the rest is obviously history.

[kente777]

Jesus Christ, I wasn't indicting every Cubs fan everywhere; just the ones in this thread who are unnecessarily villifying Zambrano.

 

If Carpenter was in the same situation, I'm sure there would be some Cardinals fans doing the same thing, and I would say the same thing I said here.

 

So we are villifying him by wanting him to stop sucking and start pitching like the ace he is? Ya sounds like we are real irrational.

 

you've been villifying him from your very first post.

 

And no one said anything about the fact that wanting him to stop sucking is a bad thing. But that yesterday was beyond that.

 

We are going to have to agree to disagree because you arent going to change my mind that there was nothing wrong with what took place yesterday from the fans.

 

I was just about to say the same thing, because I think yesterday was bushleague and classless.

 

So was his performence...

 

hahahahaha.

 

that's a good one.

 

yea z's all out hustle and zeal and passion for which he plays the game is the complete opposite of bushleague and classless. But I know you need to feel justification for the way he was treated by supposed fans yesterday.

 

I don't care about hustle, Zeal, and Passion. I care about results, and the man isn't getting it done when we need him most. It's really that simple.

 

As someone who has played competitive sports through college, there are a few things players directly control. You can work hard, you can want it badly, you can practice and dedicate yourself to a trade, but when you hit the field, you can't control what opponents do. I expect the best effort and committment to winning from my players. Seomteimes you just don't have good stuff and there isn't anything you can do it about. It is these situations in which I feel players need support not villification.l

 

More times then not it's not about Z having good stuff. It's about him losing his concentration and composure on the mound.

 

Then booing him would be even MORE counterproductive. It would rattle him even more.

 

Put it this way. If this rattles him, I would hate to see him in the World Series.

 

Like someone else said early, I think Z saw the fans almost like his teammates. He wanted nothing more than to stay in Chicago, and he took a paycut to do so (Mets, yanks, Bo Sox would have given him more money for sure). So what happened yesterday was sobering for him. Maybe he won't be disillusioned anymore I guess.

 

I don't think pressure rattles him, I think he felt betrayed by "family".

 

Right now the fans want a World Series winner more than "loving Zambrano as a member of the family."

 

The world does not revolve around Carlos. Oh, hey guys....Carlos said he's gonna win the Cy Young so let's just play really really good when he pitches so we can make that a reality.

 

Stop thinking about yourself, Carlos. This whole "family" thing is a bunch of baloney. Maybe in the 70's when the Cubs were terrible....maybe then. But not now. The city wants a winner. And then he says that when he's pitching well, he will remember the boo'ing. What the hell does that supposed to mean?

 

Again, shut up and pitch.