Mike Fontenot

[Skyballer]

Because his SB% is the best amongst all qualified SS.

[SouthSideRyan]

Riot is a good baserunner and surely his CS would still be relatively low, so the adjustment isn't that much.

At the very lest SLG would look like .480.

No I haven't crunched the numbers but if someone would like to, feel free.

 

This is not just a few more SBs you're adding in. That's 35 more to get an adjusted SLG of 480. And even assuming he continues stealing at his current rate(a dubious assumption), you're dropping his adjusted OBP down to 317.

[Skyballer]

which makes his almighty OPS near 800.

And since all we care about is OPS then wouldn't this make him an elite SS.

[Sarcastic]

The other problem is that stolen bases are not completely equivalent to an extra base achieved at the plate, since a stolen base can't drive runners in.

[Skyballer]

The other problem is that stolen bases are not completely equivalent to an extra base achieved at the plate, since a stolen base can't drive runners in.

RBI opportunities are rare for Theriot seeing as he mostly just has Sori if he gets on base without hitting a big fly.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

The other problem is that stolen bases are not completely equivalent to an extra base achieved at the plate, since a stolen base can't drive runners in.

RBI opportunities are rare for Theriot seeing as he mostly just has Sori if he gets on base without hitting a big fly.

 

Even at the top of the order he has plenty of at bats with people on base, even if they are not in scoring position. A stolen base can't score a runner from first like a double can.

[brinoch]

What's downright painful is to listen to Brinoch who only cares about one thing. Power is over rated, the reason: you don't take into considration SB. I know Riot only has 19, yet I still reason that if he is sent nearly as much as Reyes he will have a lot more SB while still keeping his CS low.

So essentially about half of his singles are SB which would make his SLG around .500 :shock: that's right brinoch if we had a manager that sent the baserunner every time we would have a very good SS, all-star caliber.

None the less, Lou is doing his job just swell: he only sends the baserunner when it is going to help the team so alot of those singles that remain singles are not hurting the team at all.

 

Really, all I care about is one thing? Do not mischaracterize my remarks.

 

Power is not overrated. Where do you come up with this stuff? Please, demonstrate for me how power is overrated.

 

Furthermore, the assumptions you are making are absurd. Theriot is a good basestealer; but he's not Reyes. If Theriot were to attempt steals as much as Reyes does, he'd get caught a lot more because pitchers would pay a lot more attention to him.

[Skyballer]

Are you seriously suggesting that pitchers aren't paying attention to Riot.

That is absurd, anyone who has 19 steals with such a low amount of CS will have ptchers paying attention, especially since he loves to do it in a close situation.

If power was as imortant as you suggest the Cubs would not have the record they have since June 3rd, I seem to remeber a long stretch without a single XBH.

What more do you need?

[brinoch]

Are you seriously suggesting that pitchers aren't paying attention to Riot.

That is absurd, anyone who has 19 steals with such a low amount of CS will have ptchers paying attention, especially since he loves to do it in a close situation.

 

MurtonFan. Re-read my post. Now.

 

So, what did I say? Do use strawman arguments with me.

[jyoung55]

The other problem is that stolen bases are not completely equivalent to an extra base achieved at the plate, since a stolen base can't drive runners in.

RBI opportunities are rare for Theriot seeing as he mostly just has Sori if he gets on base without hitting a big fly.

 

Even at the top of the order he has plenty of at bats with people on base, even if they are not in scoring position. A stolen base can't score a runner from first like a double can.

 

This is true but I think the point is being missed that for someone who like Theriot has a job description of getting into scoring position for the big guys... his sb's present value. Because they come when he is looking to get into scoring position not when he is trying to drive in runs.

 

Probably a point of semantics though.

[Skyballer]

Don't give me commands, I did nothing against the rules. Pitchers are paying alot of attention to Riot as is evident by the fact that pitchers are always trying to pick hinm off.

So yes you're suggesting and implying that pitcher's are not paying much attention to him whis is a ridiculous and feable minded comment.

[Skyballer]

The other problem is that stolen bases are not completely equivalent to an extra base achieved at the plate, since a stolen base can't drive runners in.

RBI opportunities are rare for Theriot seeing as he mostly just has Sori if he gets on base without hitting a big fly.

 

Even at the top of the order he has plenty of at bats with people on base, even if they are not in scoring position. A stolen base can't score a runner from first like a double can.

 

This is true but I think the point is being missed that for someone who like Theriot has a job description of getting into scoring position for the big guys... his sb's present value. Because they come when he is looking to get into scoring position not when he is trying to drive in runs.

 

Probably a point of semantics though.

No, you're absolutely right, Riot has the job of getting on base and into scoring position which he is doing well.

He recieves the Eckstein treatment from commentators and it is well justified.

[jyoung55]

The other problem is that stolen bases are not completely equivalent to an extra base achieved at the plate, since a stolen base can't drive runners in.

RBI opportunities are rare for Theriot seeing as he mostly just has Sori if he gets on base without hitting a big fly.

 

Even at the top of the order he has plenty of at bats with people on base, even if they are not in scoring position. A stolen base can't score a runner from first like a double can.

 

This is true but I think the point is being missed that for someone who like Theriot has a job description of getting into scoring position for the big guys... his sb's present value. Because they come when he is looking to get into scoring position not when he is trying to drive in runs.

 

Probably a point of semantics though.

No, you're absolutely right, Riot has the job of getting on base and into scoring position which he is doing well.

He recieves the Eckstein treatment from commentators and it is well justified.

 

You lost me on the Capt. Grit comment. I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

The other problem is that stolen bases are not completely equivalent to an extra base achieved at the plate, since a stolen base can't drive runners in.

RBI opportunities are rare for Theriot seeing as he mostly just has Sori if he gets on base without hitting a big fly.

 

Even at the top of the order he has plenty of at bats with people on base, even if they are not in scoring position. A stolen base can't score a runner from first like a double can.

 

This is true but I think the point is being missed that for someone who like Theriot has a job description of getting into scoring position for the big guys... his sb's present value. Because they come when he is looking to get into scoring position not when he is trying to drive in runs.

 

Probably a point of semantics though.

 

 

 

When you're evaluating him as a whole though you can't say they're equivalent, no matter how often he gets on base for hitters, or comes up with no one on base. There's a major difference between getting a hit/walking and stealing second, and hitting a double. Of course, instead of worrying about adjusting OBP and SLG for it, why not just use RC or EqA?

 

Also, the Eckstein Treatment doesn't have a positive connotation attached to it.

[Skyballer]

The other problem is that stolen bases are not completely equivalent to an extra base achieved at the plate, since a stolen base can't drive runners in.

RBI opportunities are rare for Theriot seeing as he mostly just has Sori if he gets on base without hitting a big fly.

 

Even at the top of the order he has plenty of at bats with people on base, even if they are not in scoring position. A stolen base can't score a runner from first like a double can.

 

This is true but I think the point is being missed that for someone who like Theriot has a job description of getting into scoring position for the big guys... his sb's present value. Because they come when he is looking to get into scoring position not when he is trying to drive in runs.

 

Probably a point of semantics though.

No, you're absolutely right, Riot has the job of getting on base and into scoring position which he is doing well.

He recieves the Eckstein treatment from commentators and it is well justified.

 

You lost me on the Capt. Grit comment. I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.

Please make a decent argument as to why what i said is a retorical comment.

[brinoch]

Don't give me commands, I did nothing against the rules. Pitchers are paying alot of attention to Riot as is evident by the fact that pitchers are always trying to pick hinm off.

So yes you're suggesting and implying that pitcher's are not paying much attention to him whis is a ridiculous and feable minded comment.

 

If Theriot were to attempt steals as much as Reyes does, he'd get caught a lot more because pitchers would pay a lot more attention to him.

[Skyballer]

Don't give me commands, I did nothing against the rules. Pitchers are paying alot of attention to Riot as is evident by the fact that pitchers are always trying to pick hinm off.

So yes you're suggesting and implying that pitcher's are not paying much attention to him whis is a ridiculous and feable minded comment.

 

If Theriot were to attempt steals as much as Reyes does, he'd get caught a lot more because pitchers would pay a lot more attention to him.

Yet you still boast no evidence or fact to support your theory.

[Sammy Sofa]

Don't give me commands, I did nothing against the rules. Pitchers are paying alot of attention to Riot as is evident by the fact that pitchers are always trying to pick hinm off.

So yes you're suggesting and implying that pitcher's are not paying much attention to him whis is a ridiculous and feable minded comment.

 

If Theriot were to attempt steals as much as Reyes does, he'd get caught a lot more because pitchers would pay a lot more attention to him.

Yet you still boast no evidence or fact to support your theory.

 

Wow, talk about the pot calling the kettle black. You declaring something to be a "fact" is not presenting evidence.

[brinoch]

I'm done with you.

[Skyballer]

I'm done with you.

Yay, he gives up :!:

[Sammy Sofa]

I'm done with you.

Yay, he gives up :!:

 

Because there's nothing to respond to. You rarely answer any direct points and you pull "facts" out of thin air and refuse to budge on them even when shown to be mistaken or wrong. It's like debating with a brick wall.

[Skyballer]

I'm done with you.

Yay, he gives up :!:

 

Because there's nothing to respond to. You rarely answer any direct points and you pull "facts" out of thin air and refuse to budge on them even when shown to be mistaken or wrong. It's like debating with a brick wall.

No that's like arguing with brinoch, who suggests that theriot would be caught more often if he attempted more often. And the only thing he uses to suggest his theory is that pitcher's would pay more attention.

I've seen Riot run the bases and there are very frequent pick-off attempts and I don't think anyone would argue that.

brinoch on the other hand still can't support his argument, so he simply quits. :D

[Sammy Sofa]

I'm done with you.

Yay, he gives up :!:

 

Because there's nothing to respond to. You rarely answer any direct points and you pull "facts" out of thin air and refuse to budge on them even when shown to be mistaken or wrong. It's like debating with a brick wall.

No that's like arguing with brinoch, who suggests that theriot would be caught more often if he attempted more often. And the only thing he uses to suggest his theory is that pitcher's would pay more attention.

I've seen Riot run the bases and there are very frequent pick-off attempts and I don't think anyone would argue that.

brinoch on the other hand still can't support his argument, so he simply quits. :D

 

The crux of your argument seems to entail what you actually see.

 

You can't see everything.

 

Your argument is severely flawed.

[Skyballer]

I'm done with you.

Yay, he gives up :!:

 

Because there's nothing to respond to. You rarely answer any direct points and you pull "facts" out of thin air and refuse to budge on them even when shown to be mistaken or wrong. It's like debating with a brick wall.

No that's like arguing with brinoch, who suggests that theriot would be caught more often if he attempted more often. And the only thing he uses to suggest his theory is that pitcher's would pay more attention.

I've seen Riot run the bases and there are very frequent pick-off attempts and I don't think anyone would argue that.

brinoch on the other hand still can't support his argument, so he simply quits. :D

 

The crux of your argument seems to entail what you actually see.

 

You can't see everything.

 

Your argument is severely flawed.

I happen to follow the Cubs quite often so the idea that what I see isn't good enough is retorical.

Are you implying that I have bad eyesight?

[Sammy Sofa]

I'm done with you.

Yay, he gives up :!:

 

Because there's nothing to respond to. You rarely answer any direct points and you pull "facts" out of thin air and refuse to budge on them even when shown to be mistaken or wrong. It's like debating with a brick wall.

No that's like arguing with brinoch, who suggests that theriot would be caught more often if he attempted more often. And the only thing he uses to suggest his theory is that pitcher's would pay more attention.

I've seen Riot run the bases and there are very frequent pick-off attempts and I don't think anyone would argue that.

brinoch on the other hand still can't support his argument, so he simply quits. :D

 

The crux of your argument seems to entail what you actually see.

 

You can't see everything.

 

Your argument is severely flawed.

I happen to follow the Cubs quite often so the idea that what I see isn't good enough is retorical.

Are you implying that I have bad eyesight?

 

No, I'm flat out saying that your eyes can't show you everything pertaining to a player's numbers and abilities short of you seeing every game and every play and having multiple angles and reviewing tools to do so, and even then you're still going to get things wrong.