Punch Zambrano Campaign

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

How is consistency even a valid arguing point?

 

Players who are consistent:

 

Neifi Perez

Juan Pierre

David Eckstein

 

Just to name a few.

 

Now explain to me why 'consistency' is always a good thing and a reasonable way to judge a player's value.

 

Unless it's consistently good, it doesn't mean a damn thing.

[Skyballer]

How is consistency even a valid arguing point?

 

Players who are consistent:

 

Neifi Perez

Juan Pierre

David Eckstein

 

Just to name a few.

 

Now explain to me why 'consistency' is always a good thing and a reasonable way to judge a player's value.

 

Unless it's consistently good, it doesn't mean a damn thing.

Agreed. But Marshall is consistently good.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

How is consistency even a valid arguing point?

 

Players who are consistent:

 

Neifi Perez

Juan Pierre

David Eckstein

 

Just to name a few.

 

Now explain to me why 'consistency' is always a good thing and a reasonable way to judge a player's value.

 

Unless it's consistently good, it doesn't mean a damn thing.

Agreed. But Marshall is consistently good.

 

You do realize that if you combine Marshall's 2006 with his 2007, he is a below average pitcher, don't you?

 

Now, I think Marshall has the potential to be a decent pitcher, but he's nowhere near Zambrano's ability to dominate on a consistent basis.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

You do realize that if you combine Marshall's 2006 with his 2007, he is a below average pitcher, don't you?

 

Now, I think Marshall has the potential to be a decent pitcher, but he's nowhere near Zambrano's ability to dominate on a consistent basis.

 

and they're about 1 start away from Zambrano having superior statistics again this season

[Skyballer]

You do realize that if you combine Marshall's 2006 with his 2007, he is a below average pitcher, don't you?

 

Now, I think Marshall has the potential to be a decent pitcher, but he's nowhere near Zambrano's ability to dominate on a consistent basis.

 

and they're about 1 start away from Zambrano having superior statistics again this season

Not if Marshall does what he is capable of.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

You do realize that if you combine Marshall's 2006 with his 2007, he is a below average pitcher, don't you?

 

Now, I think Marshall has the potential to be a decent pitcher, but he's nowhere near Zambrano's ability to dominate on a consistent basis.

 

and they're about 1 start away from Zambrano having superior statistics again this season

Not if Marshall does what he is capable of.

 

If they both do what they are capable of, Zambrano will easily outperform Marshall.

[Skyballer]

You do realize that if you combine Marshall's 2006 with his 2007, he is a below average pitcher, don't you?

 

Now, I think Marshall has the potential to be a decent pitcher, but he's nowhere near Zambrano's ability to dominate on a consistent basis.

 

and they're about 1 start away from Zambrano having superior statistics again this season

Not if Marshall does what he is capable of.

 

If they both do what they are capable of, Zambrano will easily outperform Marshall.

maybe.

[NCCubFan]

You do realize that if you combine Marshall's 2006 with his 2007, he is a below average pitcher, don't you?

 

Now, I think Marshall has the potential to be a decent pitcher, but he's nowhere near Zambrano's ability to dominate on a consistent basis.

 

and they're about 1 start away from Zambrano having superior statistics again this season

Not if Marshall does what he is capable of.

 

If they both do what they are capable of, Zambrano will easily outperform Marshall.

maybe.

Definitely.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

You do realize that if you combine Marshall's 2006 with his 2007, he is a below average pitcher, don't you?

 

Now, I think Marshall has the potential to be a decent pitcher, but he's nowhere near Zambrano's ability to dominate on a consistent basis.

 

and they're about 1 start away from Zambrano having superior statistics again this season

Not if Marshall does what he is capable of.

 

If they both do what they are capable of, Zambrano will easily outperform Marshall.

maybe.

 

no, easily

[Skyballer]

You do realize that if you combine Marshall's 2006 with his 2007, he is a below average pitcher, don't you?

 

Now, I think Marshall has the potential to be a decent pitcher, but he's nowhere near Zambrano's ability to dominate on a consistent basis.

 

and they're about 1 start away from Zambrano having superior statistics again this season

Not if Marshall does what he is capable of.

 

If they both do what they are capable of, Zambrano will easily outperform Marshall.

maybe.

 

no, easily

They're both capable of being aces.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

You do realize that if you combine Marshall's 2006 with his 2007, he is a below average pitcher, don't you?

 

Now, I think Marshall has the potential to be a decent pitcher, but he's nowhere near Zambrano's ability to dominate on a consistent basis.

 

and they're about 1 start away from Zambrano having superior statistics again this season

Not if Marshall does what he is capable of.

 

If they both do what they are capable of, Zambrano will easily outperform Marshall.

maybe.

 

There's no maybe about it.

 

Zambrano has a season with an ERA+ of 165. This season so far he's posted his worst ERA+. He hasn't been below 130 since he was 21 back in 2002 unless he's unable to improve this year.

 

Marshall last season had an ERA+ of 83. Even with his good start this year, he's still only 126. That would be a bad season for Zambrano.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

They're both capable of being aces.

 

no, they're both capable of putting up ace-like starts

 

Zambrano is capable of being an ace, Marshall has the ceiling of a 3 or 4

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

You do realize that if you combine Marshall's 2006 with his 2007, he is a below average pitcher, don't you?

 

Now, I think Marshall has the potential to be a decent pitcher, but he's nowhere near Zambrano's ability to dominate on a consistent basis.

 

and they're about 1 start away from Zambrano having superior statistics again this season

Not if Marshall does what he is capable of.

 

If they both do what they are capable of, Zambrano will easily outperform Marshall.

maybe.

 

no, easily

They're both capable of being aces.

 

Marshall is capable of being Ted Lilly. Zambrano is capable of being one of the top five pitchers in the game. It's not even close.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

it's almost like we're talking to Marshall's mom

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

it's almost like we're talking to Marshall's mom

 

I think even his mom wouldn't say he's better than Zambrano.

[Skyballer]

You do realize that if you combine Marshall's 2006 with his 2007, he is a below average pitcher, don't you?

 

Now, I think Marshall has the potential to be a decent pitcher, but he's nowhere near Zambrano's ability to dominate on a consistent basis.

 

and they're about 1 start away from Zambrano having superior statistics again this season

Not if Marshall does what he is capable of.

 

If they both do what they are capable of, Zambrano will easily outperform Marshall.

maybe.

 

no, easily

They're both capable of being aces.

 

Marshall is capable of being Ted Lilly. Zambrano is capable of being one of the top five pitchers in the game. It's not even close.

Lilly will never be an ace, Marshall might. Still Control is very important and Z doesn't posses it.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

You do realize that if you combine Marshall's 2006 with his 2007, he is a below average pitcher, don't you?

 

Now, I think Marshall has the potential to be a decent pitcher, but he's nowhere near Zambrano's ability to dominate on a consistent basis.

 

and they're about 1 start away from Zambrano having superior statistics again this season

Not if Marshall does what he is capable of.

 

If they both do what they are capable of, Zambrano will easily outperform Marshall.

maybe.

 

no, easily

They're both capable of being aces.

 

Marshall is capable of being Ted Lilly. Zambrano is capable of being one of the top five pitchers in the game. It's not even close.

Lilly will never be an ace, Marshall might. Still Control is very important and Z doesn't posses it.

 

And while control is important, stuff is just as important. Zambrano's pitches and ability to miss bats trumps Marshall in so many ways.

 

The fact is when Marshall was 24 yrs old, he posted a 83 ERA+.

 

When Zambrano was 24 years old, he posted a 131 ERA+ and had already had a season with a 165 ERA+.

 

It's ok to be a Marshall fanboy if you want, but to assert that Marshall is any way equivalent in ability to Zambrano is stupidity at best and bordering on insanity.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Lilly will never be an ace, Marshall might. Still Control is very important and Z doesn't posses it.

 

2006 WHIP

Zambrano: 1.29

Marshall: 1.52

 

Career WHIP

Zambrano: 1.28

Marshall: 1.44

 

Marshall still holds the edge for 2007 based on a few nice starts, but that margin is closing fast and will probably disappear within the next 2 starts

[Skyballer]

Lilly will never be an ace, Marshall might. Still Control is very important and Z doesn't posses it.

 

2006 WHIP

Zambrano: 1.29

Marshall: 1.52

 

Career WHIP

Zambrano: 1.28

Marshall: 1.44

 

Marshall still holds the edge for 2007 based on a few nice starts, but that margin is closing fast and will probably disappear within the next 2 starts

Still, Z led the league in walks. Doesn't say much for him and those whip is mostly hits for Marshall and walks for Z. Z's control doesn't look to improve but Marshall's "stuff" does.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Still, Z led the league in walks. Doesn't say much for him and those whip is mostly hits for Marshall and walks for Z. Z's control doesn't look to improve but Marshall's "stuff" does.

 

WHIP does a pretty good job of showing the frequency with which they allow batters to reach base. whether it's via hit or walk, statistics prove that Zambrano's been much better at keeping people off the bases when he pitches, and that's more important that your assertion that he just has no control

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Lilly will never be an ace, Marshall might. Still Control is very important and Z doesn't posses it.

 

2006 WHIP

Zambrano: 1.29

Marshall: 1.52

 

Career WHIP

Zambrano: 1.28

Marshall: 1.44

 

Marshall still holds the edge for 2007 based on a few nice starts, but that margin is closing fast and will probably disappear within the next 2 starts

Still, Z led the league in walks. Doesn't say much for him and those whip is mostly hits for Marshall and walks for Z. Z's control doesn't look to improve but Marshall's "stuff" does.

 

And even if Zambrano doesn't improve his control, he's still a better pitcher than Marshall.

 

Even with Zambrano's control issues, he's still had those awesome seasons. Even with what you call great control by Marshall, his best would be the worst full season Zambrano has seen in 5 years!

[Skyballer]

Lilly will never be an ace, Marshall might. Still Control is very important and Z doesn't posses it.

 

2006 WHIP

Zambrano: 1.29

Marshall: 1.52

 

Career WHIP

Zambrano: 1.28

Marshall: 1.44

 

Marshall still holds the edge for 2007 based on a few nice starts, but that margin is closing fast and will probably disappear within the next 2 starts

Still, Z led the league in walks. Doesn't say much for him and those whip is mostly hits for Marshall and walks for Z. Z's control doesn't look to improve but Marshall's "stuff" does.

 

And even if Zambrano doesn't improve his control, he's still a better pitcher than Marshall.

 

Even with Zambrano's control issues, he's still had those awesome seasons. Even with what you call great control by Marshall, his best would be the worst full season Zambrano has seen in 5 years!

And when Marshall has those 5 years of experience we'll see whose better. All we're doing now is debating without fair statistical comparison.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

And when Marshall has those 5 years of experience we'll see whose better. All we're doing now is debating without fair statistical comparison.

 

sure, that's what just happened

[NCCubFan]

And when Marshall has those 5 years of experience we'll see whose better. All we're doing now is debating without fair statistical comparison.

I'm pretty sure the issue is who's better NOW, not who may be better in five years. And that's Zambrano, no question about it.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Lilly will never be an ace, Marshall might. Still Control is very important and Z doesn't posses it.

 

2006 WHIP

Zambrano: 1.29

Marshall: 1.52

 

Career WHIP

Zambrano: 1.28

Marshall: 1.44

 

Marshall still holds the edge for 2007 based on a few nice starts, but that margin is closing fast and will probably disappear within the next 2 starts

Still, Z led the league in walks. Doesn't say much for him and those whip is mostly hits for Marshall and walks for Z. Z's control doesn't look to improve but Marshall's "stuff" does.

 

And even if Zambrano doesn't improve his control, he's still a better pitcher than Marshall.

 

Even with Zambrano's control issues, he's still had those awesome seasons. Even with what you call great control by Marshall, his best would be the worst full season Zambrano has seen in 5 years!

And when Marshall has those 5 years of experience we'll see whose better. All we're doing now is debating without fair statistical comparison.

 

But in a lot of ways we are. We can compare each player to the other at the same age. When Zambrano was Marshall's age, he was dominating major league hitters.

 

I'm trying to take you seriously, but it's laughable to think Marshall is now or ever will reach the level of pitching that Zambrano has achieved.