This doesn't sound like the Big Z I know...

[Mizzou]

Did I say that? No. Did you read after the second sentence? No. Who's laughing now?

Okay, so you look at K/9 and K/BB and HR's allowed. Awesome. Hits, walks, and runs allowed are kinda sorta important too.

 

Not really...

Right, because whichever team has the better K:BB ratio wins. Nothing important at all about that "runs" thing.

 

Are you freaking serious right now??

[Mephistopheles]

and we all know that all runs scored are deserving and all runs not scored arent deserved

[A New Era]

and we all know that all runs scored are deserving and all runs not scored arent deserved

 

WHAT!? You've been selective on the stats you chose to make your point. I'm no stat nut but did you listen to that one episode on WGN radio where Kap was talking about K BB/9+HR? As Walks, K's, and HRs are the ONLY thing that a pitcher is directly accountable for.

 

You can argue that Zambrano has been "better". However he has not been as "effective" as Marquis. Marquis has him beat in just about every stat, the ones he doesn't, you choose to state your case. But it doesn't even really friggen matter. From what I can see is Z has had 1 quality start out of 3. Marquis has 1 of 2. Which is a higher percentage rate than "Big Z". Z has been flat out terrible so far. And if Marquis has a quality start tommorow, he'll be 2 of 3 to Z's 1 of 3. I really couldn't care less if Z has K'd more, allowed less HR, or has had better "stuff". I want my pitchers to go 6-7 innings and give up 3 runs or less.

[Mephistopheles]

i didnt say hes been as effective. i said hes been better. there's a difference and only two weeks into the season the latter is much more important than the former.

[A New Era]

i didnt say hes been as effective. i said hes been better. there's a difference and only two weeks into the season the latter is much more important than the former.

 

So? Everybody's arguing with you that Marquis has been the better pitcher and it matters SO much to you that in your mind "Zambrano has been better"? BTW, you can argue all you want about hits, walks, and runs are not important. However, Walks ARE in the pitchers own hands, and Zambrano has walked way more batters than Marquis has. In fact, without those, he might have actually won his third game. And we wouldn't even be having this arguement.

[soccer10k]

Marquis has been better, more effective - or however else you want to put it - than Zambrano so far this year and I don't see how somebody can realistically argue otherwise.

 

That said, I don't expect Marquis to outpitch Z for the remainder of the year.

[Magnetic Curses]

Did I say that? No. Did you read after the second sentence? No. Who's laughing now?

Okay, so you look at K/9 and K/BB and HR's allowed. Awesome. Hits, walks, and runs allowed are kinda sorta important too.

 

They're important looking backwards, but after three games they are in no way important as a predictive stat.

 

Nobody's trying to predict the rest of the season. They are just saying-who has pitched better so far-Z in his 3 starts, or Marquis in his 2?

 

Well in that case obviously Marquis has had more success, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's pitched better. It would be easy to say that he has, but with such a small sample and so many of the different variables that go into pitching, I'd have to look at the stats way deeper and after just a combined 5 starts, it wouldnt be worth it.

 

this is, how they say?.......exactly right.

[Magnetic Curses]

Marquis has been better, more effective - or however else you want to put it - than Zambrano so far this year and I don't see how somebody can realistically argue otherwise.

 

That said, I don't expect Marquis to outpitch Z for the remainder of the year.

 

protest all you want, but luck is still a huge part of the game, especially when you're talking about a 2-3 start sample size. by the look of marquis's BABIP, he's getting pretty lucky thus far.

[BigSlick]

I'm pretty sure I know a little more than you about statistical analysis and various topics in it today so I'm also pretty sure that makes what I say carry more weight.

 

There are four things that I look at for pitchers. 1.) K Rate. 2.) Walk rate coupled with BB rate. In this case, the expected walk rate is about the same because theyre throwing strikes just as infrequently. 3.) Groundball/Outfield Fly rate which turns into homers. Again Z's given up a lot of longballs, but come on its luck that some of them were homers. By luck i dont mean they werent hit hard. Your eyes cant apply to this argument. 4.) Offense. Z's hit a hell of a lot better than Marquis. Perhaps I define a pitcher much more broadly than you but in the national league you have to include hitting, and i have.

 

You recognize that keeping the ball on the ground is a skill, and yet at the same time say that Marquis shouldn't be given credit for his .229 or whatever BABIP? If he can keep the ball on the ground, it usually WONT go for hits.

[Mephistopheles]

That's just not true. In fact it's the opposite. Usually a groundball pitcher's going to allow a higher BABIP than a flyball pitcher. For hitters a good hitter for average usually has a high GB%. I'm sorry but you're clearly wrong about that.

[Magnetic Curses]

I'm pretty sure I know a little more than you about statistical analysis and various topics in it today so I'm also pretty sure that makes what I say carry more weight.

 

There are four things that I look at for pitchers. 1.) K Rate. 2.) Walk rate coupled with BB rate. In this case, the expected walk rate is about the same because theyre throwing strikes just as infrequently. 3.) Groundball/Outfield Fly rate which turns into homers. Again Z's given up a lot of longballs, but come on its luck that some of them were homers. By luck i dont mean they werent hit hard. Your eyes cant apply to this argument. 4.) Offense. Z's hit a hell of a lot better than Marquis. Perhaps I define a pitcher much more broadly than you but in the national league you have to include hitting, and i have.

 

You recognize that keeping the ball on the ground is a skill, and yet at the same time say that Marquis shouldn't be given credit for his .229 or whatever BABIP? If he can keep the ball on the ground, it usually WONT go for hits.

 

not true, as meph has says. it generally won't go for extra base hits, though. the pitcher SLGa will be better.