Scoring Rules are a Little Goofy...

[Hosak8]

No points for wins? Seriously? And only a single point for a save? Nothing earned for a complete game?

 

I just don't get awarding points for something as common as a double play turned, but nothing for a complete game, and nothing for getting a win.

 

I realize that CBS' scoring system has some obvious flaws, but they award 10 points for a win, 5 for a complete game, 5 (or 10) for a save. At least you get something out of that.

 

And what is the deal with this: IF you're a pitcher and walk someone intentionally, you are AWARDED points, but if you're a hitter who get walked intentionally, you have points DEDUCTED?

 

ANd finally, this: WHy do you only get .25 points for stealing a base, but get deducted .5 points for a caught stealing? Getting caught is more harmful than stealing a base is good? And the CSC category makes no sense. 1 point for getting caught stealing by a catcher?

 

Are some of these just typos? If not, some of this scoring is little wacky.

[Guest]

No points for wins? Seriously? And only a single point for a save? Nothing earned for a complete game?

 

I just don't get awarding points for something as common as a double play turned, but nothing for a complete game, and nothing for getting a win.

 

I realize that CBS' scoring system has some obvious flaws, but they award 10 points for a win, 5 for a complete game, 5 (or 10) for a save. At least you get something out of that.

 

And what is the deal with this: IF you're a pitcher and walk someone intentionally, you are AWARDED points, but if you're a hitter who get walked intentionally, you have points DEDUCTED?

 

ANd finally, this: WHy do you only get .25 points for stealing a base, but get deducted .5 points for a caught stealing? Getting caught is more harmful than stealing a base is good? And the CSC category makes no sense. 1 point for getting caught stealing by a catcher?

 

Are some of these just typos? If not, some of this scoring is little wacky.

 

 

Wins are pretty arbitrary and not indicative of how a pitcher has pitched. no idea on the second item but yes, getting caught stealing is more damaging than being successful is rewarding. that scoring is quite appropriate.

[Vinestal]

We have talked about SB points they are way undervalued in this league. I was hoping this would be changed in time for this season but apparently it was more important to make some rule changes but not others.

[mhuber92211]

Wins are pretty arbitrary and not indicative of how a pitcher has pitched. no idea on the second item but yes, getting caught stealing is more damaging than being successful is rewarding. that scoring is quite appropriate.

 

I don't want to start a philosophical debate but the saying that by getting a win is not an indicator of how someone played is pretty illogical. I realize that it is a team sport and the team as a whole gets the win, but the pitcher has a great deal to do with that.

[Guest]

Wins are pretty arbitrary and not indicative of how a pitcher has pitched. no idea on the second item but yes, getting caught stealing is more damaging than being successful is rewarding. that scoring is quite appropriate.

 

I don't want to start a philosophical debate but the saying that by getting a win is not an indicator of how someone played is pretty illogical. I realize that it is a team sport and the team as a whole gets the win, but the pitcher has a great deal to do with that.

 

Really? Even if you get a win by pitching 5 innings and giving up 8 runs but your team scores 9? Or if you blow a three run lead in the 9th and then your team comes back and wins in the bottom half? Or if you throw 8 shutout innings but your closer blows the game?

 

That's logical? Please.

[Vinestal]

Wins mean next to nothing when trying to judge the performance of an individual pitcher. If a guy goes out and pitches 8 shutout innings and gives up 1 run in the 9th and loses 1-0 he hasnt pitched well? Dont think so.

[Hosak8]

Wins are pretty arbitrary and not indicative of how a pitcher has pitched. no idea on the second item but yes, getting caught stealing is more damaging than being successful is rewarding. that scoring is quite appropriate.

 

I don't want to start a philosophical debate but the saying that by getting a win is not an indicator of how someone played is pretty illogical. I realize that it is a team sport and the team as a whole gets the win, but the pitcher has a great deal to do with that.

 

Really? Even if you get a win by pitching 5 innings and giving up 8 runs but your team scores 9? Or if you blow a three run lead in the 9th and then your team comes back and wins in the bottom half? Or if you throw 8 shutout innings but your closer blows the game?

 

That's logical? Please.

 

Good lord. Some of you guys and you Uber Extreme situations. So a guy who wins 22 games but gives up lots of fly balls is worth less than a guy who wins 11 games but is a ground ball pitcher right? You'd rather have the second guy on your team, huh?

 

Perhaps the HOF should start inducting people based on their FB/GB ratio since wins don't matter.

 

And, for the notion that getting caught stealing hurts worse than stealing a base helps... right. Incredibly absurd. That's like saying that getting thrown out at second on a base hit is more detrimental than hitting a double is positive. It's nonsense. At the very least, the two should be equal. At the very least.

[moochpuppy]

So...........week one has been fun so far.

 

 

\:D/

[mhuber92211]

Wins are pretty arbitrary and not indicative of how a pitcher has pitched. no idea on the second item but yes, getting caught stealing is more damaging than being successful is rewarding. that scoring is quite appropriate.

 

I don't want to start a philosophical debate but the saying that by getting a win is not an indicator of how someone played is pretty illogical. I realize that it is a team sport and the team as a whole gets the win, but the pitcher has a great deal to do with that.

 

Really? Even if you get a win by pitching 5 innings and giving up 8 runs but your team scores 9? Or if you blow a three run lead in the 9th and then your team comes back and wins in the bottom half? Or if you throw 8 shutout innings but your closer blows the game?

 

That's logical? Please.

 

Yes it is logical considering that the game is a TEAM sport. Hence the team recording a win AND the pitcher recording one as well.

 

Bottom line is that in one example the team won and in the other the team didn't. Therefore in 1 example the pitcher did his job which is simply to not let the other team score more runs then your team does. It doesn't matter how he does it, it just matters that he does.

[Guest]

No points for wins? Seriously? And only a single point for a save? Nothing earned for a complete game?

Yes, no points for wins. The point of fantasy baseball is to measure the performance of the individual player and not reward for team results. If you were drafting the entire Boston team and not just Daisuke, then it would make sense to award wins. But since it is just Santana on the mound, he is not generating wins on his own. The points are set up to reward pitchers for the jobs they do on their individual performances, not for their contributions to their teams. Otherwise we should be awarding points for being a "good clubhouse guy".

 

I just don't get awarding points for something as common as a double play turned, but nothing for a complete game, and nothing for getting a win.

Again, the idea was to award people for their individual contributions, including defense. Where this becomes more important is for AL players that spend significant time at DH. For example, it reduces Piazza's value as a catcher because he really isn't providing any value that way in real life.

 

I realize that CBS' scoring system has some obvious flaws, but they award 10 points for a win, 5 for a complete game, 5 (or 10) for a save. At least you get something out of that.

I should probably have something there for complete games. But the pitchers are getting nine innings worth of points on an inning by inning basis, so they are already getting richly rewarded for going the distance. Also, the idea is to isolate the performance of the individual, so the "team" benefit of saving the pen is not really relevant in fantasy baseball.

 

Don't get me started on saves. I had to talk myself into the single bonus point for them.

 

And what is the deal with this: IF you're a pitcher and walk someone intentionally, you are AWARDED points, but if you're a hitter who get walked intentionally, you have points DEDUCTED?

The idea with the intentional walks is that sportsline awards both the walk and the intentional walk. So instead of receiving the normal 0.75 points for a walk the hitter "earned", he only gets a total of 0.5 points for a walk that he's "given". Same deal with the pitchers. No reason to punish them as heavily when the manager tells them to walk someone.

 

ANd finally, this: WHy do you only get .25 points for stealing a base, but get deducted .5 points for a caught stealing? Getting caught is more harmful than stealing a base is good? And the CSC category makes no sense. 1 point for getting caught stealing by a catcher?

Yes, the harm caused by getting caught is far bigger than the benefit created by a successful steal. In this era of baseball, every study I've ever seen puts the ratio at around 3-1. I was actually being generous to the value of steals when I only made it 2-1 here.

 

That said, I do plan on increasing the value of steals for next season.

 

Are some of these just typos? If not, some of this scoring is little wacky.

Instead of lambasting out of the chute, why not ask for the rationale first?

 

Who knows...there just might be some logic behind it.

[Guest]

Wins are pretty arbitrary and not indicative of how a pitcher has pitched. no idea on the second item but yes, getting caught stealing is more damaging than being successful is rewarding. that scoring is quite appropriate.

 

I don't want to start a philosophical debate but the saying that by getting a win is not an indicator of how someone played is pretty illogical. I realize that it is a team sport and the team as a whole gets the win, but the pitcher has a great deal to do with that.

 

Really? Even if you get a win by pitching 5 innings and giving up 8 runs but your team scores 9? Or if you blow a three run lead in the 9th and then your team comes back and wins in the bottom half? Or if you throw 8 shutout innings but your closer blows the game?

 

That's logical? Please.

 

Yes it is logical considering that the game is a TEAM sport. Hence the team recording a win AND the pitcher recording one as well.

 

Bottom line is that in one example the team won and in the other the team didn't. Therefore in 1 example the pitcher did his job which is simply to not let the other team score more runs then your team does. It doesn't matter how he does it, it just matters that he does.

Which pitcher did his job better (one got a win, one a loss and one am ND):

 

A: 8IP, 7H, 2BB, 6K, 1R, 1ER

B: 8IP, 7H, 2BB, 6K, 1R, 1ER

C: 8IP, 7H, 2BB, 6K, 1R, 1ER

 

It's tough for me to tell.

 

This is fantasy baseball, so I don't have the whole real team on my fantasy team, I just have the pitcher. So I'm not going to tell you what the rest of the pitcher's team did. You know, how many runs the rest of the team scored, how the bullpen did in that last inning and so forth...because I don't have the whole team on my fantasy team, just the pitcher. So why should I be rewarded / punished for what they did?

 

Baseball truly is a team game. Fantasy baseball is not.

[mhuber92211]

You are correct Tim. For fantasy purposes I see no reason for any changes. I just had trouble with the thought in general.

[Hosak8]

No points for wins? Seriously? And only a single point for a save? Nothing earned for a complete game?

Yes, no points for wins. The point of fantasy baseball is to measure the performance of the individual player and not reward for team results. If you were drafting the entire Boston team and not just Daisuke, then it would make sense to award wins. But since it is just Santana on the mound, he is not generating wins on his own. The points are set up to reward pitchers for the jobs they do on their individual performances, not for their contributions to their teams. Otherwise we should be awarding points for being a "good clubhouse guy".

 

I just don't get awarding points for something as common as a double play turned, but nothing for a complete game, and nothing for getting a win.

Again, the idea was to award people for their individual contributions, including defense. Where this becomes more important is for AL players that spend significant time at DH. For example, it reduces Piazza's value as a catcher because he really isn't providing any value that way in real life.

 

I realize that CBS' scoring system has some obvious flaws, but they award 10 points for a win, 5 for a complete game, 5 (or 10) for a save. At least you get something out of that.

I should probably have something there for complete games. But the pitchers are getting nine innings worth of points on an inning by inning basis, so they are already getting richly rewarded for going the distance. Also, the idea is to isolate the performance of the individual, so the "team" benefit of saving the pen is not really relevant in fantasy baseball.

 

Don't get me started on saves. I had to talk myself into the single bonus point for them.

 

And what is the deal with this: IF you're a pitcher and walk someone intentionally, you are AWARDED points, but if you're a hitter who get walked intentionally, you have points DEDUCTED?

The idea with the intentional walks is that sportsline awards both the walk and the intentional walk. So instead of receiving the normal 0.75 points for a walk the hitter "earned", he only gets a total of 0.5 points for a walk that he's "given". Same deal with the pitchers. No reason to punish them as heavily when the manager tells them to walk someone.

 

ANd finally, this: WHy do you only get .25 points for stealing a base, but get deducted .5 points for a caught stealing? Getting caught is more harmful than stealing a base is good? And the CSC category makes no sense. 1 point for getting caught stealing by a catcher?

Yes, the harm caused by getting caught is far bigger than the benefit created by a successful steal. In this era of baseball, every study I've ever seen puts the ratio at around 3-1. I was actually being generous to the value of steals when I only made it 2-1 here.

 

That said, I do plan on increasing the value of steals for next season.

 

Are some of these just typos? If not, some of this scoring is little wacky.

Instead of lambasting out of the chute, why not ask for the rationale first?

 

Who knows...there just might be some logic behind it.

 

Tim...

 

You've completely missed the point on one item. In the league rules, a batter who is intentionally walked has his points DEDUCTED, while a pitcher who intentionally walks someone has points ADDED.

 

That isn't wacky?

[Guest]

And what is the deal with this: IF you're a pitcher and walk someone intentionally, you are AWARDED points, but if you're a hitter who get walked intentionally, you have points DEDUCTED?

The idea with the intentional walks is that sportsline awards both the walk and the intentional walk. So instead of receiving the normal 0.75 points for a walk the hitter "earned", he only gets a total of 0.5 points for a walk that he's "given". Same deal with the pitchers. No reason to punish them as heavily when the manager tells them to walk someone.

 

Tim...

 

You've completely missed the point on one item. In the league rules, a batter who is intentionally walked has his points DEDUCTED, while a pitcher who intentionally walks someone has points ADDED.

 

That isn't wacky?

No, you're missing the point. In sportsline, the batter who gets intentionally walked gets credit for both a walk and an intentional walk. So his points go like this:

 

A regular walk is worth 0.75 points.

 

An intentional walk is worth 0.5 (0.75 + -0.25) points.

 

Same thing on the pitching side of things.

 

Still think it's wacky?

[Hosak8]

And what is the deal with this: IF you're a pitcher and walk someone intentionally, you are AWARDED points, but if you're a hitter who get walked intentionally, you have points DEDUCTED?

The idea with the intentional walks is that sportsline awards both the walk and the intentional walk. So instead of receiving the normal 0.75 points for a walk the hitter "earned", he only gets a total of 0.5 points for a walk that he's "given". Same deal with the pitchers. No reason to punish them as heavily when the manager tells them to walk someone.

 

Tim...

 

You've completely missed the point on one item. In the league rules, a batter who is intentionally walked has his points DEDUCTED, while a pitcher who intentionally walks someone has points ADDED.

 

That isn't wacky?

No, you're missing the point. In sportsline, the batter who gets intentionally walked gets credit for both a walk and an intentional walk. So his points go like this:

 

A regular walk is worth 0.75 points.

 

An intentional walk is worth 0.5 (0.75 + -0.25) points.

 

Same thing on the pitching side of things.

 

Still think it's wacky?

 

So, he gets the points for the walk AND the intentional walk? Now I'm starting to see.

 

It's such a different points system than anything I've ever played with, so it will definitely take time to adjust.