Ken Rosenthal: Cubs Looking for Cheap CF

[HoopsCubs]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6396994

 

"The Cubs, who remain interested in Erstad, are on the verge of signing outfielder Cliff Floyd and probably can't fit another free agent into their budget even if they trade right fielder Jacque Jones, major-league sources said."

 

"Cubs manager Lou Piniella said over the weekend that the team might try Alfonso Soriano in center. General manager Jim Hendry, however, has been trying to acquire a young, inexpensive center fielder who eventually would yield the position to top prospect Felix Pie. Soriano would play right under that scenario and Floyd and Matt Murton would share left, leaving no place for Jones."

 

 

Hoops

[Rob]

What would it take to get Coco Crisp at this point? I don't think he'll be any better than Pie would be in CF, but he's certainly better than a chump like Erstad.

[Tracer Bullet]

Unless by "share" we're talking 90/10 in favor of Murton, this is a terrible idea.

 

"Floyd and Matt Murton would share left"

[Guest]

Why are the Cubs even looking for a "cheap, young CF to hold the spot till Pie is ready", when they already have an in house candidate on the team? Pagan is young, and cheap, and he could handle CF until Pie is ready. So, why again (unless it's Church) are the Cubs looking outside the org for a cheap, young CF?

[Drew Doughty]

Pagan sucks, that's why they're not looking to use him.

[Wheelimus]

Is Pagan any worse than Erstad or Finley at this point?

[goonys evil twin]

Pagan sucks, that's why they're not looking to use him.

 

This is true.

[CubinNY]

Why are the Cubs even looking for a "cheap, young CF to hold the spot till Pie is ready", when they already have an in house candidate on the team? Pagan is young, and cheap, and he could handle CF until Pie is ready. So, why again (unless it's Church) are the Cubs looking outside the org for a cheap, young CF?

 

Because Pagan is not an everyday player.

 

One of the more interesting stories that I will be watching is the amount of play that Murton receives if Floyd is signed. It seems to me that the Cubs want more pop in the lineup. I think Murton has the bat speed by he may need to change his swing to generate lift. I don't want to see a platoon at all, but if Murton struggles he will get the quick hook.

[HoopsCubs]

Why are the Cubs even looking for a "cheap, young CF to hold the spot till Pie is ready", when they already have an in house candidate on the team? Pagan is young, and cheap, and he could handle CF until Pie is ready. So, why again (unless it's Church) are the Cubs looking outside the org for a cheap, young CF?

 

Speaking of Ryan Church, does anyone have anything new to report on his availability? I recall Bruce Levine mentioning on the radio last week that the Cubs were showing interest in Erstad and Church.

 

The big question still is where do the Cubs send Jacque Jones? I'm wondering if Philadelphia would be a good destination. Their OF is shaping up to be Burrell, Rowand and Victorino - other than Burrell, not a lot of SLG there. Would the Phils trade Victorino ("cheap, young CF") for Jones if the Cubs picked up some cash? How about Rowand? He's not cheap or young, but he wouldn't block Pie considering Aaron is a free agent after 2007, and his salary would offset Jones' salary in 2007.

[goonys evil twin]

Why are the Cubs even looking for a "cheap, young CF to hold the spot till Pie is ready", when they already have an in house candidate on the team? Pagan is young, and cheap, and he could handle CF until Pie is ready. So, why again (unless it's Church) are the Cubs looking outside the org for a cheap, young CF?

 

Because Pagan is not an everyday player.

 

One of the more interesting stories that I will be watching is the amount of play that Murton receives if Floyd is signed. It seems to me that the Cubs want more pop in the lineup. I think Murton has the bat speed by he may need to change his swing to generate lift. I don't want to see a platoon at all, but if Murton struggles he will get the quick hook.

Hendry: “Nobody sets out to ignore it. Guys don’t try to have lower on-base percentages. Certain guys in our game are still great players who don’t have high, high on-base percentages.

 

“Still, more importantly, you have to knock people in, knock the runs in the right way with two outs in the seventh, eighth and ninth inning. You can fluctuate the numbers a lot of different ways to create your own argument.

 

Certain guys are going to be run producers that you need, but they’re not extremely high on-base guys. A lot of times, you want somebody to hit one off the wall to knock in 2 and maybe not take that walk depending on who’s up next.

 

The game’s all about two things: scoring runs and knocking in runs, and you have to have a balance of all of it.”

 

 

Piniella: “You don’t really want your 3-4-5 hitters taking too many pitches. You want to let them swing away. At the same time, your Nos. 1 and 2 hitters can take a few more pitches. "

 

I definitely think you've hit on the theme cubinny. Hendry is still focused on "clutch hitting", and while he acknowledges OBP, he still quickly brushes it aside and focuses heavily on what I would call power and timely hitting.

 

I find Jim's "two things about the game" to be odd. The game is scoring runs and preventing runs. The scoring part is about getting on, first and foremost, and then driving guys in. Lou's theory about 3-4-5 hitters is just plain wrong. Those are the guys who take the most walks. You really don't want thoshe guys just swinging away. You want them to take just about anything they can't drive.

[Guest]

Pagan sucks, that's why they're not looking to use him.

 

Yeah, but that is why he would be a "short-term" option for CF. Pie will be up by what...July at the latest. So, all the Cubs would need from Pagan is to not embarrassed himself.

 

Besides, if Pagan can't do the job, why not another candidate like Chris Walker, or even Ryan Theriot? Unless it is Ryan Church, there is no need to waste money on an area in which you can field in house.

[goonys evil twin]

Pagan sucks, that's why they're not looking to use him.

 

Yeah, but that is why he would be a "short-term" option for CF. Pie will be up by what...July at the latest. So, all the Cubs would need from Pagan is to not embarrassed himself.

 

The problem is that Pagan is very likely to embarass himself, and any GM/manager that let's him play.

[Guest]

Pagan sucks, that's why they're not looking to use him.

 

Yeah, but that is why he would be a "short-term" option for CF. Pie will be up by what...July at the latest. So, all the Cubs would need from Pagan is to not embarrassed himself.

 

The problem is that Pagan is very likely to embarass himself, and any GM/manager that let's him play.

 

Then brings guys like Fuld/Walker, etc, etc, to camp and see if one of them can prove to be a "short-term" option in CF. I don't mind going outside the ORG, for immediate help that significantly improves the area of weakness, but that move is to find a 'young, cheap short term option for CF until Pie is ready" that is spedning money, just to spend money. The Cubs have a couple of options in the minors, that would keep the spot warm, until Pie is ready. So, unless the Cubs can land a player like Church, I would rather the Cubs look in house.

[USSoccer]

How would Ken Rosenthal have more insight than, say Bruce as far as the Cubs' plans for Murton and CF?

[frostwyrm]

Is Pagan any worse than Erstad or Finley at this point?

 

That's my question. I agree that Pagan is not good, but I'd still rather see him play over washed up geezers like Erstad and Finley. It's not impossible that Pagan develops into a serviceable 4th OF. The other two have no future and they don't help us much in the short term either.

[CubinNY]

Pagan sucks, that's why they're not looking to use him.

 

Yeah, but that is why he would be a "short-term" option for CF. Pie will be up by what...July at the latest. So, all the Cubs would need from Pagan is to not embarrassed himself.

 

The problem is that Pagan is very likely to embarass himself, and any GM/manager that let's him play.

 

Then brings guys like Fuld/Walker, etc, etc, to camp and see if one of them can prove to be a "short-term" option in CF. I don't mind going outside the ORG, for immediate help that significantly improves the area of weakness, but that move is to find a 'young, cheap short term option for CF until Pie is ready" that is spedning money, just to spend money. The Cubs have a couple of options in the minors, that would keep the spot warm, until Pie is ready. So, unless the Cubs can land a player like Church, I would rather the Cubs look in house.

 

I think the entire philosphy is wrong. The Cubs don't need a place holder in CF. They're not that good that they can stand one. In additon, I don't like the idea of waiting until Pie is ready. It's clear to me he is not ready, notwithstanding his strong finish in AAA last year. They are hoping he is ready by mid-season or perhaps spring training. I wouldn't bet on it.

 

Once again the Cubs main philsophy seems to be "hope". Hope is the absence of planning and why the Cubs have not done well since 2004.

[CUBZ99]

Why are the Cubs even looking for a "cheap, young CF to hold the spot till Pie is ready", when they already have an in house candidate on the team? Pagan is young, and cheap, and he could handle CF until Pie is ready. So, why again (unless it's Church) are the Cubs looking outside the org for a cheap, young CF?

 

Because Pagan is not an everyday player.

 

One of the more interesting stories that I will be watching is the amount of play that Murton receives if Floyd is signed. It seems to me that the Cubs want more pop in the lineup. I think Murton has the bat speed by he may need to change his swing to generate lift. I don't want to see a platoon at all, but if Murton struggles he will get the quick hook.

Hendry: “Nobody sets out to ignore it. Guys don’t try to have lower on-base percentages. Certain guys in our game are still great players who don’t have high, high on-base percentages.

 

“Still, more importantly, you have to knock people in, knock the runs in the right way with two outs in the seventh, eighth and ninth inning. You can fluctuate the numbers a lot of different ways to create your own argument.

 

Certain guys are going to be run producers that you need, but they’re not extremely high on-base guys. A lot of times, you want somebody to hit one off the wall to knock in 2 and maybe not take that walk depending on who’s up next.

 

The game’s all about two things: scoring runs and knocking in runs, and you have to have a balance of all of it.”

 

 

Piniella: “You don’t really want your 3-4-5 hitters taking too many pitches. You want to let them swing away. At the same time, your Nos. 1 and 2 hitters can take a few more pitches. "

 

I definitely think you've hit on the theme cubinny. Hendry is still focused on "clutch hitting", and while he acknowledges OBP, he still quickly brushes it aside and focuses heavily on what I would call power and timely hitting.

 

I find Jim's "two things about the game" to be odd. The game is scoring runs and preventing runs. The scoring part is about getting on, first and foremost, and then driving guys in. Lou's theory about 3-4-5 hitters is just plain wrong. Those are the guys who take the most walks. You really don't want thoshe guys just swinging away. You want them to take just about anything they can't drive.

 

I agree with one point Hendry is making.....If the Cubs have two outs and runners in scoring position, you definitely don't want DLee up at the plate being overselective if Neifi is on deck.

 

Other than that, I'm not sure even Hendry understands the logic behind his own statements.

[goonys evil twin]

I agree with one point Hendry is making.....If the Cubs have two outs and runners in scoring position, you definitely don't want DLee up at the plate being overselective if Neifi is on deck.

 

Other than that, I'm not sure even Hendry understands the logic behind his own statements.

 

The solution to that problem is not having Neifi up after Lee, so he doesn't feel the need to swing at crap.

[YearofDaCubs]

Is Pagan any worse than Erstad or Finley at this point?

I would be really irritated if we sign Finley.

[goonys evil twin]

Pagan sucks, that's why they're not looking to use him.

 

Yeah, but that is why he would be a "short-term" option for CF. Pie will be up by what...July at the latest. So, all the Cubs would need from Pagan is to not embarrassed himself.

 

The problem is that Pagan is very likely to embarass himself, and any GM/manager that let's him play.

 

Then brings guys like Fuld/Walker, etc, etc, to camp and see if one of them can prove to be a "short-term" option in CF. I don't mind going outside the ORG, for immediate help that significantly improves the area of weakness, but that move is to find a 'young, cheap short term option for CF until Pie is ready" that is spedning money, just to spend money. The Cubs have a couple of options in the minors, that would keep the spot warm, until Pie is ready. So, unless the Cubs can land a player like Church, I would rather the Cubs look in house.

 

I think the entire philosphy is wrong. The Cubs don't need a place holder in CF. They're not that good that they can stand one. In additon, I don't like the idea of waiting until Pie is ready. It's clear to me he is not ready, notwithstanding his strong finish in AAA last year. They are hoping he is ready by mid-season or perhaps spring training. I wouldn't bet on it.

 

Once again the Cubs main philsophy seems to be "hope". Hope is the absence of planning and why the Cubs have not done well since 2004.

 

I'm not promoting the notion of a placeholder myself. I'm just saying Pagan in CF would be awful.

 

CubinNY, I also hate the idea of waiting on Pie. It's way too similar to Hendry's past ideas of hoping for Miller and Prior in May, and waiting for the trading deadline to make his moves instead of fielding the best team possible before the season starts.

 

I don't have great faith in Pie, but they might as well start with him in center in April if they really think he'll be ready by June. The idea that he'll become ready with a couple months more of AAA is silly.

[CubinNY]

Pagan sucks, that's why they're not looking to use him.

 

Yeah, but that is why he would be a "short-term" option for CF. Pie will be up by what...July at the latest. So, all the Cubs would need from Pagan is to not embarrassed himself.

 

The problem is that Pagan is very likely to embarass himself, and any GM/manager that let's him play.

 

Then brings guys like Fuld/Walker, etc, etc, to camp and see if one of them can prove to be a "short-term" option in CF. I don't mind going outside the ORG, for immediate help that significantly improves the area of weakness, but that move is to find a 'young, cheap short term option for CF until Pie is ready" that is spedning money, just to spend money. The Cubs have a couple of options in the minors, that would keep the spot warm, until Pie is ready. So, unless the Cubs can land a player like Church, I would rather the Cubs look in house.

 

I think the entire philosphy is wrong. The Cubs don't need a place holder in CF. They're not that good that they can stand one. In additon, I don't like the idea of waiting until Pie is ready. It's clear to me he is not ready, notwithstanding his strong finish in AAA last year. They are hoping he is ready by mid-season or perhaps spring training. I wouldn't bet on it.

 

Once again the Cubs main philsophy seems to be "hope". Hope is the absence of planning and why the Cubs have not done well since 2004.

 

I'm not promoting the notion of a placeholder myself. I'm just saying Pagan in CF would be awful.

 

CubinNY, I also hate the idea of waiting on Pie. It's way too similar to Hendry's past ideas of hoping for Miller and Prior in May, and waiting for the trading deadline to make his moves instead of fielding the best team possible before the season starts.

 

I don't have great faith in Pie, but they might as well start with him in center in April if they really think he'll be ready by June. The idea that he'll become ready with a couple months more of AAA is silly.

 

I agree. If I were Hendry I get the best players I could get for the postions of need. If Pie shows he is ready then the Cubs have a guy they can trade to fill another need. There is no law against have too much talent.

[CubinNY]

dbl pst. Edited January 24, 2007 by CubinNY

[CubinNY]

tpl post Edited January 24, 2007 by CubinNY

[RichHillIsABeast]

Good. Pie belongs in CF. Murton in LF. Soriano in RF.

 

I could give a rip who the placeholder is as he's gone by the ASB. Anyone can be hot/cold for a half a season - even the likes of Neifi Perez.

[RichHillIsABeast]

Looks like Erstad is going to the White Sox.

 

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