Who is playing CF?

[CuseCubFan69]

Will it be Jones? Pie? Stopgap?

 

I'm fine with Jones as being the CF but I would like to see how he handles it in the spring before committing to him. I would also be fine with Pie if the Cubs upgrade at SS with the trade of Jones. The thing that worries me unless I missed a transaction is the lack of a good defensive CF on the team. I assume the Cubs will still have Pagan around but since they played Pierre every stinking day at CF we never really got to see him play there along with Jones never playing there either during the year. I admit since the Cubs were in the playoff hunt until the last game of the season they had to play Pierre there for every inning of every game. I wasn't impressed with Pagan as a good defensive OF by any means.

 

Granted, if Murton, Jones and Soriano hit well they may not come out and they might throw a fit, well Jones, if he is taken out for defensive reasons in the 8th or 9th inning of a close game. I could see the Cubs sliding Jones over to LF and then putting a defensive CF in the game. If they have one.

[soapy]

For whatever reason, the Cubs appear to be hell-bent on trading Jones. So I'd be surprised if he's the opening day CF (though that's what I'd prefer at this point).

 

As you mentioned, I'd be fine with Pie if they upgraded at SS. I don't see that happening, so I'm a little leary of depending on Pie as the everyday CF. I'm kind of hoping that a possible Church deal isn't really dead yet. Things have cooled down, but once teams get into spring training, the asking price for Church may go down. I assume the Nationals would be most interested in pitching.

 

We didn't see much of Pagan last season, but there really isn't anything about his past that suggests to me that he would be a solid option in CF (offensively or defensively).

 

I have absolutely zero interest in the like of Erstad and Finley. I'll be extremely disappointed if the Cubs go that route.

[CuseCubFan69]

For whatever reason, the Cubs appear to be hell-bent on trading Jones. So I'd be surprised if he's the opening day CF (though that's what I'd prefer at this point).

 

As you mentioned, I'd be fine with Pie if they upgraded at SS. I don't see that happening, so I'm a little leary of depending on Pie as the everyday CF. I'm kind of hoping that a possible Church deal isn't really dead yet. Things have cooled down, but once teams get into spring training, the asking price for Church may go down. I assume the Nationals would be most interested in pitching.

 

We didn't see much of Pagan last season, but there really isn't anything about his past that suggests to me that he would be a solid option in CF (offensively or defensively).

 

I have absolutely zero interest in the like of Erstad and Finley. I'll be extremely disappointed if the Cubs go that route.

 

I agree with you and if they do go the Erstad or Finley route AND keep Izturis at SS this team is going to have 3 easy outs and they can't afford that with this starting pitching staff.

 

I think Pagan could put up better numbers than those 2 guys at no cost. Not that that is saying much.

 

IMO Church is going to cost a lot and I just don't see Hendry going that route with Pie in the wings unless he envisons Pie or Church as a corner OF, which I hope he doesn't.

 

I have no idea what's going on with this Jones situation. Why is Jones so heckbent on leaving? Something is going on here because I thought Jones was suppose to be a "great" clubhouse guy according to the reports out of Minny.

[soapy]

I can just imagine some of those day-game-after-night-game lineups with a 6-9 of:

 

6. Finley/Erstad/Pie/Pagan

7. Blanco

8. Izturis

9. Pitcher not named Zambrano

[CuseCubFan69]

I can just imagine some of those day-game-after-night-game lineups with a 6-9 of:

 

6. Finley/Erstad/Pie/Pagan

7. Blanco

8. Izturis

9. Pitcher not named Zambrano

 

Z or Marquis should be batting 6th in that lineup.

[soapy]

I have no idea what's going on with this Jones situation. Why is Jones so heckbent on leaving? Something is going on here because I thought Jones was suppose to be a "great" clubhouse guy according to the reports out of Minny.

 

I'd like to know this as well. Is he (Jones) that upset with the coaching change? Upset with the (early season) fan treatment? What's the deal? Something is weird about this whole thing. A part of me thinks Hendry needs to tell him to suck it up and deal with it.

[soapy]

I can just imagine some of those day-game-after-night-game lineups with a 6-9 of:

 

6. Finley/Erstad/Pie/Pagan

7. Blanco

8. Izturis

9. Pitcher not named Zambrano

 

Z or Marquis should be batting 6th in that lineup.

 

And probably playing CF or SS.

[CuseCubFan69]

I have no idea what's going on with this Jones situation. Why is Jones so heckbent on leaving? Something is going on here because I thought Jones was suppose to be a "great" clubhouse guy according to the reports out of Minny.

 

I'd like to know this as well. Is he (Jones) that upset with the coaching change? Upset with the (early season) fan treatment? What's the deal? Something is weird about this whole thing. A part of me thinks Hendry needs to tell him to suck it up and deal with it.

 

It's a little odd to me. Were the fans on him that much or is he too thin skinned? A combination of the two probably.

[daske17]

I have no idea what's going on with this Jones situation. Why is Jones so heckbent on leaving? Something is going on here because I thought Jones was suppose to be a "great" clubhouse guy according to the reports out of Minny.

 

I'd like to know this as well. Is he (Jones) that upset with the coaching change? Upset with the (early season) fan treatment? What's the deal? Something is weird about this whole thing. A part of me thinks Hendry needs to tell him to suck it up and deal with it.

 

Sullivan wrote in his column yesterday that it was a combination of factors. The fans were a primary reason for his displeasure, given his 0-13 start to the season and his mom getting the business for defending her son in the stands.

 

And anecdotally, Jones preferred Baker as his manager and that was one of his reasons for coming here. He supposedly wasn't happy the Cubs canned Dusty.

[CuseCubFan69]

I have no idea what's going on with this Jones situation. Why is Jones so heckbent on leaving? Something is going on here because I thought Jones was suppose to be a "great" clubhouse guy according to the reports out of Minny.

 

I'd like to know this as well. Is he (Jones) that upset with the coaching change? Upset with the (early season) fan treatment? What's the deal? Something is weird about this whole thing. A part of me thinks Hendry needs to tell him to suck it up and deal with it.

 

Sullivan wrote in his column yesterday that it was a combination of factors. The fans were a primary reason for his displeasure, given his 0-13 start to the season and his mom getting the business for defending her son in the stands.

 

And anecdotally, Jones preferred Baker as his manager and that was one of his reasons for coming here. He supposedly wasn't happy the Cubs canned Dusty.

 

So Dusty did recruit a player!

 

IMO Jones is worried about being platooned and he knew Baker wouldn't do it to a veteran with his skills.

[Twiggy]

If we don't get rid of Jones, I'm not all that upset. I think he will be ok in CF. The one thing that worries be though is his arm, damn he can't throw a ball to save his life. Who knows, we could see alot of Pagan in CF also.

[CuseCubFan69]

If we don't get rid of Jones, I'm not all that upset. I think he will be ok in CF. The one thing that worries be though is his arm, damn he can't throw a ball to save his life. Who knows, we could see alot of Pagan in CF also.

 

I'm hoping that he threw like that due to the injury and no way could he have a worse arm than Pierre. Even if he took his glove off and threw right handed.

[Amazing_Grace]

Count me in the camp that would like to see Jones get a shot to be the everyday CF.

 

The question it comes down to is this. Which is more important, to have a strong offensive or defensive player in CF. Personally, I think offense is more important than defense at almost every position because the difference between the best and worst players on offense is large, obvious, and easily measured (statistically anyway), while the difference between the best and worst defensive players can sometimes stand out in the form of errors, but is not obviously large, and very hard to measure. The worst defensive players in MLB probably won't make more than 30 errors in a season while the best defensive players probably will still make 5-10. How many games will that mean vs. a difference of 100 or 200 points of OPS?

 

Hendry appears to be desperately trying to trade Jones. That means either he sees Jacque as a corner OF only and really would prefer Floyd or just Murton (which would be stupid given Jones has played CF well in Minnesota), OR it means that Jones really wants out of Chicago to the point of demanding a trade. We've heard plenty to support either conclusion, but if not Jones, then who. The remaining FA choices are terrible, that is certain. Hendry views Pie as the CF of the future, but he's a poor choice for the present given that as a rookie being rushed to the bigs, he'd probably have very weak offensive numbers. Soriano could be moved to CF, but that would block Pie in the future, as would any major trade scenario.

 

If the Cubs really want to win now, they should NOT go into the season with Pie or Pagan as the starting CF, nor should they trade Jones just to trade him. If he absolutely demands a trade,were I Jim, I'd explore trading Pie for a long term solution in CF or another corner OF moving Soriano to CF, and failing that, I'd bite the bullet and sign one of the remaining CF free agents. Bringing Pie to the majors now, when his numbers and level don't justify it, right in the middle of a high pressure "win now" mentality is just begging for another Corey Patterson fiasco where a young player is yanked up and down from AAA, gets booed by the fans, and ends up a bust (for the Cubs anyway).

[Backtobanks]

Count me in the camp that would like to see Jones get a shot to be the everyday CF.

 

The question it comes down to is this. Which is more important, to have a strong offensive or defensive player in CF. Personally, I think offense is more important than defense at almost every position because the difference between the best and worst players on offense is large, obvious, and easily measured (statistically anyway), while the difference between the best and worst defensive players can sometimes stand out in the form of errors, but is not obviously large, and very hard to measure. The worst defensive players in MLB probably won't make more than 30 errors in a season while the best defensive players probably will still make 5-10. How many games will that mean vs. a difference of 100 or 200 points of OPS?

 

Hendry appears to be desperately trying to trade Jones. That means either he sees Jacque as a corner OF only and really would prefer Floyd or just Murton (which would be stupid given Jones has played CF well in Minnesota), OR it means that Jones really wants out of Chicago to the point of demanding a trade. We've heard plenty to support either conclusion, but if not Jones, then who. The remaining FA choices are terrible, that is certain. Hendry views Pie as the CF of the future, but he's a poor choice for the present given that as a rookie being rushed to the bigs, he'd probably have very weak offensive numbers. Soriano could be moved to CF, but that would block Pie in the future, as would any major trade scenario.

If the Cubs really want to win now, they should NOT go into the season with Pie or Pagan as the starting CF, nor should they trade Jones just to trade him. If he absolutely demands a trade,were I Jim, I'd explore trading Pie for a long term solution in CF or another corner OF moving Soriano to CF, and failing that, I'd bite the bullet and sign one of the remaining CF free agents. Bringing Pie to the majors now, when his numbers and level don't justify it, right in the middle of a high pressure "win now" mentality is just begging for another Corey Patterson fiasco where a young player is yanked up and down from AAA, gets booed by the fans, and ends up a bust (for the Cubs anyway).

 

I don't think the Cubs have any plans to put Soriano in CF, but putting him there for 1 year wouldn't block Pie. As many posters have written, I don't really care about Jones wanting out of Chicago. He has a contract to play for the Cubs and if they can't get something of value for him and have a decent replacement in the OF, then keep him and play him. If he pouts and slumps, the pressure on him will get even worse and he would jeopardize any future contracts he might want to sign with another team. In other words, I would expect Hendry to do his best and try to trade him for someone that would help the Cubs, but Jones should act professionally and honor his contract by giving his best effort.

[Amazing_Grace]

I don't think the Cubs have any plans to put Soriano in CF, but putting him there for 1 year wouldn't block Pie. As many posters have written, I don't really care about Jones wanting out of Chicago. He has a contract to play for the Cubs and if they can't get something of value for him and have a decent replacement in the OF, then keep him and play him. If he pouts and slumps, the pressure on him will get even worse and he would jeopardize any future contracts he might want to sign with another team. In other words, I would expect Hendry to do his best and try to trade him for someone that would help the Cubs, but Jones should act professionally and honor his contract by giving his best effort.

 

As for Soriano blocking Pie, I was referring to the comments Hendry made about signing Soriano to play "1 position" without stating specifically which position it would be but later alluding to RF or CF (it was posted somewhere, maybe the Soriano signing thread). I took that to mean Soriano won't be happy to play CF one season then LF another, and RF still another, and since he's here for 8 seasons, I'd rather keep him happy.

 

I agree with your sentiment about Jones. It is, after all, his contract year, so playing poorly and/or pitching a public fit is probably not in his best interest. That said, it wouldn't be the first time a star publicly feuded with management and caused a stink in the clubhouse despite being a FA within a year or two (Nomar in Boston, Sammy in Chicago, Terrell Owens in football does it every year). I'd probably bet Jones won't make too much noise, but we'll have to hope Hendry knows Jones well enough to make the right call one way or the other.

[CuseCubFan69]

I don't think the Cubs have any plans to put Soriano in CF, but putting him there for 1 year wouldn't block Pie. As many posters have written, I don't really care about Jones wanting out of Chicago. He has a contract to play for the Cubs and if they can't get something of value for him and have a decent replacement in the OF, then keep him and play him. If he pouts and slumps, the pressure on him will get even worse and he would jeopardize any future contracts he might want to sign with another team. In other words, I would expect Hendry to do his best and try to trade him for someone that would help the Cubs, but Jones should act professionally and honor his contract by giving his best effort.

 

As for Soriano blocking Pie, I was referring to the comments Hendry made about signing Soriano to play "1 position" without stating specifically which position it would be but later alluding to RF or CF (it was posted somewhere, maybe the Soriano signing thread). I took that to mean Soriano won't be happy to play CF one season then LF another, and RF still another, and since he's here for 8 seasons, I'd rather keep him happy.

 

I agree with your sentiment about Jones. It is, after all, his contract year, so playing poorly and/or pitching a public fit is probably not in his best interest. That said, it wouldn't be the first time a star publicly feuded with management and caused a stink in the clubhouse despite being a FA within a year or two (Nomar in Boston, Sammy in Chicago, Terrell Owens in football does it every year). I'd probably bet Jones won't make too much noise, but we'll have to hope Hendry knows Jones well enough to make the right call one way or the other.

 

I thought Jones signed a 3 year deal?

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Jones is the best option right now. Has Drew signed with Boston yet?

[Amazing_Grace]

I thought Jones signed a 3 year deal?

 

I thought it was 2/12M with this year being the last. Was it 3/18M. If he really has 2 years at 6M per left we should be able to trade him easily and get plenty back given the market this year, though we still probably shouldn't.

Edited January 16, 2007 by Amazing_Grace

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I don't think the Cubs have any plans to put Soriano in CF, but putting him there for 1 year wouldn't block Pie. As many posters have written, I don't really care about Jones wanting out of Chicago. He has a contract to play for the Cubs and if they can't get something of value for him and have a decent replacement in the OF, then keep him and play him. If he pouts and slumps, the pressure on him will get even worse and he would jeopardize any future contracts he might want to sign with another team. In other words, I would expect Hendry to do his best and try to trade him for someone that would help the Cubs, but Jones should act professionally and honor his contract by giving his best effort.

 

As for Soriano blocking Pie, I was referring to the comments Hendry made about signing Soriano to play "1 position" without stating specifically which position it would be but later alluding to RF or CF (it was posted somewhere, maybe the Soriano signing thread). I took that to mean Soriano won't be happy to play CF one season then LF another, and RF still another, and since he's here for 8 seasons, I'd rather keep him happy.

 

I agree with your sentiment about Jones. It is, after all, his contract year, so playing poorly and/or pitching a public fit is probably not in his best interest. That said, it wouldn't be the first time a star publicly feuded with management and caused a stink in the clubhouse despite being a FA within a year or two (Nomar in Boston, Sammy in Chicago, Terrell Owens in football does it every year). I'd probably bet Jones won't make too much noise, but we'll have to hope Hendry knows Jones well enough to make the right call one way or the other.

 

I thought Jones signed a 3 year deal?

 

He did.

[Amazing_Grace]

He did.

 

My bad.

[CubColtPacer]

I thought Jones signed a 3 year deal?

 

I thought it was 2/12M with this year being the last. Was it 3/18M. If he really has 2 years at 6M per left we should be able to trade him easily and get plenty back given the market this year, though we still probably shouldn't.

 

He signed either a 3/15 or 3/16 deal, and if I remember right the contract works out that he has something like 2/11 left.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

3 years/$16M (2006-08)

 

* $4M signing bonus (paid 1/06 to 1/08)

* 06:$3M, 07:$4M, 08:$5M

[Amazing_Grace]

3 years/$16M (2006-08)

 

* $4M signing bonus (paid 1/06 to 1/08)

* 06:$3M, 07:$4M, 08:$5M

 

Wow, it's kind of amazing that Hendry's having so much trouble trading this guy given that contract. Perhaps he's not as intent on trading Jones as rumor suggests. That would be good news.

[CuseCubFan69]

3 years/$16M (2006-08)

 

* $4M signing bonus (paid 1/06 to 1/08)

* 06:$3M, 07:$4M, 08:$5M

 

Wow, it's kind of amazing that Hendry's having so much trouble trading this guy given that contract. Perhaps he's not as intent on trading Jones as rumor suggests. That would be good news.

 

I agree unless Jones is hurt and we don't know about it.

[soapy]

3 years/$16M (2006-08)

 

* $4M signing bonus (paid 1/06 to 1/08)

* 06:$3M, 07:$4M, 08:$5M

 

Wow, it's kind of amazing that Hendry's having so much trouble trading this guy given that contract. Perhaps he's not as intent on trading Jones as rumor suggests. That would be good news.

 

I agree unless Jones is hurt and we don't know about it.

 

And/or other GMs think Jones isn't likely to repeat is 2006 numbers. Which is understandable.