I just wasted 10 min of my life w/a Carrie Muskat article

[daske17]

if they have lee, barrett, aram, a good starting staff & a good bullpen they can. again, look at the OF for oakland, st louis, & the twins and tell me why an of of murton, pierre ,& jones (ops's of .800+, .730+ & .800+) wouldn't be sufficiant? the white sox have dye (who is having an mvp type year) and 2 guys in pod's & anderson with ops's under .700 and they will win 90+ games (even with a very shaky starting staff & bullpen and uribe at ss-again under .700).

 

The Sox have three guys with OPS of .900+, one of whom is a DH. The Cubs have 0. Even in 2005, the Cubs only had Lee and Ramirez with OPS above .900.

 

The team needs to create run production across the board. Sticking with the lineup as majorly constructed, and maybe adding a Soriano at 2B wouldn't be enough to bring the runs up.

[mg420]

if they have lee, barrett, aram, a good starting staff & a good bullpen they can. again, look at the OF for oakland, st louis, & the twins and tell me why an of of murton, pierre ,& jones (ops's of .800+, .730+ & .800+) wouldn't be sufficiant? the white sox have dye (who is having an mvp type year) and 2 guys in pod's & anderson with ops's under .700 and they will win 90+ games (even with a very shaky starting staff & bullpen and uribe at ss-again under .700).

 

The Sox have three guys with OPS of .900+, one of whom is a DH. The Cubs have 0. Even in 2005, the Cubs only had Lee and Ramirez with OPS above .900.

 

The team needs to create run production across the board. Sticking with the lineup as majorly constructed, and maybe adding a Soriano at 2B wouldn't be enough to bring the runs up.

 

so i guess barretts .885 & arma's .891 dont count because they are not .900 or more. if lee were healthy all year he would have posted over .900. that adds up to 3 potential .900's.

[Soul]

I think the point, mg, is that you may be aiming a little low.

 

Why try to force what could be a decent utility guy in Theriot into a starting role, when you would be better served just upgrading the position with an actual starting-quality 2B?

[goonys evil twin]

I think the point, mg, is that you may be aiming a little low.

 

Why try to force what could be a decent utility guy in Theriot into a starting role, when you would be better served just upgrading the position with an actual starting-quality 2B?

 

Exactly.

 

Imagine, if you will, the Cubs pull off a couple moves with teams looking to cut some payroll. They end up with Andruw and JD (while trading jacque in the process), sign Durham, resign Ramirez, and sign two veteran starters, of the 4-5 ERA innings eating variety, one for $7m, one for $4.5m (for these purposes, I used Padilla and Lilly. Plus, they resign Wood for the bullpen. This is what such a roster could look like, at $107m.

 

4 Durham 6.00

9 Drew 11.00

3 Lee 13.00

5 Ramirez 12.00

8 Jones 13.50

2 Barrett 4.00

7 Murton 0.35

6 Izturis 4.50

Soto 0.35

Theriot 0.35

Cedeno 0.35

Pagan 0.35

Bynum 0.35

Zambrano 10.00

Padilla 7.00

Prior 4.00

Hill 0.35

Lilly 4.50

Mateo/Marmol/Guzman 0.35

Wuertz 0.35

Ohman 0.75

Wood 2.50

Howry 4.00

Eyre 3.00

Dempster 5.00

 

 

Now, maybe the deals aren't all that possible, and maybe 107 is higher than they'll go. But certainly, this team can find a place from some actual upgrades in the OF and at 2B, without settling for players like Theriot starting.

[mg420]

I think the point, mg, is that you may be aiming a little low.

 

Why try to force what could be a decent utility guy in Theriot into a starting role, when you would be better served just upgrading the position with an actual starting-quality 2B?

 

i think he is the best option in the system until ep is ready. alot of people on this board were stoked to get freel or loretta to play 2b and i think theriot can be at least as good as they are. i like what i've seen from theriot alot and think he can be better than just a utility player if given a shot.

[Sammy Sofa]

I think the point, mg, is that you may be aiming a little low.

 

Why try to force what could be a decent utility guy in Theriot into a starting role, when you would be better served just upgrading the position with an actual starting-quality 2B?

 

i think he is the best option in the system until ep is ready. alot of people on this board were stoked to get freel or loretta to play 2b and i think theriot can be at least as good as they are. i like what i've seen from theriot alot and think he can be better than just a utility player if given a shot.

 

Based on what? His career numbers thus far aren't terribly better than Cedeno's. And who is to say that Patterson is even the answer down the line? Just because they're young doesn't automatically make them good.

[Soul]

I think the point, mg, is that you may be aiming a little low.

 

Why try to force what could be a decent utility guy in Theriot into a starting role, when you would be better served just upgrading the position with an actual starting-quality 2B?

 

i think he is the best option in the system until ep is ready. alot of people on this board were stoked to get freel or loretta to play 2b and i think theriot can be at least as good as they are. i like what i've seen from theriot alot and think he can be better than just a utility player if given a shot.

 

Based on what? His career numbers thus far aren't terribly better than Cedeno's. And who is to say that Patterson is even the answer down the line? Just because they're young doesn't automatically make them good.

 

Yes, I always take these late-season performances from guys out of the minors with an enormous grain of salt. There are too many players who are capable of looking good in September for teams out of the playoff race. But when the following season starts and the games count again, they disappear.

 

I suspect if Theriot is put into a starting role next year, this is exactly what will happen.

[Sammy Sofa]

I'd lay a grand that if we start Theriot and let him play most of the year we'd end up with Cedeno II: Electric Suckaloo or MAYBE Cedeno+ at best.

[mg420]

of course a few weeks ago people here were ready to give hill away for a bag of baseball's and lamenting that the cubs didnt trade him while he was "worth something". before that, murton was a 4th OF at best while he was slumping. i guess what they are doing now doesnt mean much either. i'm not saying theriot is the answer at 2b but he at least deserves a shot imo.

[mg420]

I think the point, mg, is that you may be aiming a little low.

 

Why try to force what could be a decent utility guy in Theriot into a starting role, when you would be better served just upgrading the position with an actual starting-quality 2B?

 

i think he is the best option in the system until ep is ready. alot of people on this board were stoked to get freel or loretta to play 2b and i think theriot can be at least as good as they are. i like what i've seen from theriot alot and think he can be better than just a utility player if given a shot.

 

Based on what? His career numbers thus far aren't terribly better than Cedeno's. And who is to say that Patterson is even the answer down the line? Just because they're young doesn't automatically make them good.

 

based on how he's played when he gets an opportunity to start. his instincts are much better than cedeno's imo.

[Sammy Sofa]

of course a few weeks ago people here were ready to give hill away for a bag of baseball's and lamenting that the cubs didnt trade him while he was "worth something". before that, murton was a 4th OF at best while he was slumping. i guess what they are doing now doesnt mean much either. i'm not saying theriot is the answer at 2b but he at least deserves a shot imo.

 

As one of the ones fed up with Hill, even then I could concede that Hill had a pile of VERY impressive AAA numbers behind him. Cedeno had bad to OK numbers behind him while Theriot has OK to kinda good numbers behind him. Comparing them to Hill is incredibly inaccurate.

 

based on how he's played when he gets an opportunity to start. his instincts are much better than cedeno's imo.

 

Cedeno looked great in his limited starts at the end of last year, too.

[mg420]

of course a few weeks ago people here were ready to give hill away for a bag of baseball's and lamenting that the cubs didnt trade him while he was "worth something". before that, murton was a 4th OF at best while he was slumping. i guess what they are doing now doesnt mean much either. i'm not saying theriot is the answer at 2b but he at least deserves a shot imo.

 

As one of the ones fed up with Hill, even then I could concede that Hill had a pile of VERY impressive AAA numbers behind him. Cedeno had bad to OK numbers behind him while Theriot has OK to kinda good numbers behind him. Comparing them to Hill is incredibly inaccurate.

 

based on how he's played when he gets an opportunity to start. his instincts are much better than cedeno's imo.

 

Cedeno looked great in his limited starts at the end of last year, too.

 

cedeno had an ops of .731 in 80 ab's compared to ryan's .861 in 87 ab's. as far as hill goes, how is it ok to ignore hill's minor leauge #'s and want to get rid of him when he struggled saying he is a AAAA pitcher and then put so much emphisis on theriot's minor leauge #'s?

[BigbadB]

i'm not saying theriot is the answer at 2b but he at least deserves a shot imo.

 

Cubs fans deserve a World Series WAY before Theriot deserves a starting gig at 2b in 2007.

 

If the Cubs starting outfield is Drew, Soriano and Andruw Jones and the rest of the infield is Ramirez, Tejada and Lee with Barrett behind the plate, fans may be willing to concede Theriot at 2b.

 

With guys like Mark Loretta, Julio Lugo, Jeff Kent, Soriano, Ray Durham and I'm sure another small handful of guys that might be on the market, 2b is a prime position to put an established veteran who can produce before you go with a rookie with limited major league experience.

 

That's not to say you do that with any and every rookie. I wanted a Murton/Jones platoon last year with a stud in RF if the plan was to give Cedeno the everyday job at SS. We didn't get that and look how things turned out.

 

Theriot is an inexpensive guy who can plug in at several different positions. I spell that utility.

 

I'm proud of Theriot's accomplishments. I hope he becomes an all star someday. Heck, I hope he's an all star next year. But, he does not have the background that tells me that it's likely he'll be a highly productive 2b and DESERVES the opportunity.

[BigbadB]

of course a few weeks ago people here were ready to give hill away for a bag of baseball's and lamenting that the cubs didnt trade him while he was "worth something". before that, murton was a 4th OF at best while he was slumping. i guess what they are doing now doesnt mean much either. i'm not saying theriot is the answer at 2b but he at least deserves a shot imo.

 

Not me. I've never advocated getting rid of Hill. I brought him up as a potential trade candidate last year while his value was high. But, that was also to net something terrific in return. I can be very patient with the younguns. I'm not ready to give up on any of them at this point, especially Guzman.

 

I like Murton. Actually, I love him in regards to his approach to hitting. He's proven over time (minors and majors) that he can hit. He does still have weaknesses that need to be addressed, but because he will likely have the job in LF next year, what he takes away from the team in weakness should be addressed at other positions, like 2b.

[Sammy Sofa]

as far as hill goes, how is it ok to ignore hill's minor leauge #'s and want to get rid of him when he struggled saying he is a AAAA pitcher and then put so much emphisis on theriot's minor leauge #'s?

 

I really don't see a comparison. I was wrong about Hill, and when he was doing bad I was getting extra frustrated because of how good his AAA numbers were and because it seemed like Hendry had missed the boat in terms of "selling high" with him. Obviously, I was wrong, and I'm glad...

 

Theriot isn't in any kind of a similar situation. His minor league numbers aren't terribly impressive and he's only been "really good" for an incredibly short amount of time. I don't want Theriot gone, I just don't want him as the regular starter. He is not THAT good, period. Maybe on a much, much, MUCH better team, sure. But not this team, not next year.

[minnesotacubsfan]

With guys like Mark Loretta, Julio Lugo, Jeff Kent, Soriano, Ray Durham and I'm sure another small handful of guys that might be on the market, 2b is a prime position to put an established veteran who can produce before you go with a rookie with limited major league .

 

I'm sorry B, but after the Dusty generation, this statement sares teh lights outta me.

[Fred Hornkohl]

Cedeno didn't deserve a starting job, and neither does Theriot.

 

2006               AB    R    H   2B   3B   HR   TB  RBI   BB   SO     BA    OBP    SLG    OPS
Theriot            87   17   27    7    2    1   41   11   10   12  0.310  0.394  0.471  0.865

 

2005               AB    R    H   2B   3B   HR   TB  RBI   BB   SO     BA    OBP    SLG    OPS
Cedeno             80   13   24    3    0    1   30    6    5   11  0.300  0.356  0.375  0.731

[A New Era]

Cedeno didn't deserve a starting job, and neither does Theriot.

 

2006               AB    R    H   2B   3B   HR   TB  RBI   BB   SO     BA    OBP    SLG    OPS
Theriot            87   17   27    7    2    1   41   11   10   12  0.310  0.394  0.471  0.865

 

2005               AB    R    H   2B   3B   HR   TB  RBI   BB   SO     BA    OBP    SLG    OPS
Cedeno             80   13   24    3    0    1   30    6    5   11  0.300  0.356  0.375  0.731

 

Good 05 06 comparisons there fred. I agree with you too. Theroit might nto be a bad idea going INTO 07 if we have enough big bats around him in the line-up to "exeriment". . We however do not have all the big bats we need. And 2B, CF, or SS are the positions we could use a nice upgrade at.

[BigbadB]

With guys like Mark Loretta, Julio Lugo, Jeff Kent, Soriano, Ray Durham and I'm sure another small handful of guys that might be on the market, 2b is a prime position to put an established veteran who can produce before you go with a rookie with limited major league .

 

I'm sorry B, but after the Dusty generation, this statement sares teh lights outta me.

 

I understand. However, I said an established veteran who can produce.

 

I'm not opposed to a Delmon Young or Nick Markakis or Alex Gordon starting next year. But, the likelihood any of those guys will be Cubs next year is slightly lower than zero.

[cubfan1955]

i'm not saying theriot is the answer at 2b but he at least deserves a shot imo.

 

Cubs fans deserve a World Series WAY before Theriot deserves a starting gig at 2b in 2007.

 

If the Cubs starting outfield is Drew, Soriano and Andruw Jones and the rest of the infield is Ramirez, Tejada and Lee with Barrett behind the plate, fans may be willing to concede Theriot at 2b.

 

With guys like Mark Loretta, Julio Lugo, Jeff Kent, Soriano, Ray Durham and I'm sure another small handful of guys that might be on the market, 2b is a prime position to put an established veteran who can produce before you go with a rookie with limited major league experience.

 

That's not to say you do that with any and every rookie. I wanted a Murton/Jones platoon last year with a stud in RF if the plan was to give Cedeno the everyday job at SS. We didn't get that and look how things turned out.

 

Theriot is an inexpensive guy who can plug in at several different positions. I spell that utility.

 

I'm proud of Theriot's accomplishments. I hope he becomes an all star someday. Heck, I hope he's an all star next year. But, he does not have the background that tells me that it's likely he'll be a highly productive 2b and DESERVES the opportunity.

Sheesh...give me that lineup and we could live with Neifi at 2B! :twisted:

[Mephistopheles]

I sent this question in:

 

Last week you said that Pierre was a good resign for the Cubs and said to imagine a 1-2 combination of Pierre and Izturis in the lineup.

 

What exactly does that mean?

[Careless]

I sent this question in:

 

Last week you said that Pierre was a good resign for the Cubs and said to imagine a 1-2 combination of Pierre and Izturis in the lineup.

 

What exactly does that mean?

I would have been blunter

"but I was quite confused when the rest of your article was not written as a horror story"