Still confused about Prior

[Sammy Sofa]

 

I was as big a fan of Prior as anybody at one point. I'm soured on him now though. I want the Cubs to win first and foremost. I don't have sentimental value to the names and faces. That's a Moneyball philosophy, actually. As far as arguing goes, that's all that happens on this board. People have different opinions about things and feel strongly about them.

 

[george costanza] Can't you desour? Why can't you desour?[/george costanza]

 

Show me 2003 the rest of this season and all of next season (plus no DL), and I will desour. I don't see it happening, but if it somehow did, I would.

 

So he needs to be the best pitcher in the game or nothing?

 

I want to see him pitch at or close to what he's capable of. Z does it every year.

 

Thus far. So the instant Z is injured, and it WILL happen, he's in the dog house with Prior?

 

You subtract those two fluke injuries, Prior is easily one of the best pitchers in the game. Granted, he has a lot to prove right now, but it's way, way, way, WAY too early to think about selling at the first possible chance when the Cubs have him on the cheap until 2008. Quite frankly, I have to echo the repeated sentiment by several here...what the hell was the point of this thread? I know you've tried to explain it, and I still can't come close to grasping it. Prior is young and cheap for the time being. What's the harm in using that time to see if he can rebound and be the pitcher we've seen him be? The Cubs have 3 other starting slots they can fill around him if need be with minimal damage, if they act smart for once. Prior when he's being Prior is one of the best out there...he's worth taking a chance on. He doesn't have a built in self-destructive style like Wood that people were calling from almost day 1. Sure, he needs to get out there and work his way back up, but I'm baffled by your cotinued sentiment that Prior is somehow done when it comes to this team. It makes less than zero sense. It actually makes anti-sense.

[NCCubFan]

Then just tell me how much time he gets to recover because it obviously is more than 3 years.

 

Wow are you this obtuse? He's had other non-dusty related setbacks during that team which have only magnified and excerbated the situation. Is it that hard to see or is your raging hard-on for getting rid of Prior that dominating?

 

Come on badger, there's no need for that.

 

sorry. i couldn't think of a synonym

 

:?

It's not rocket science. You could have said something like "your desire for getting rid of Prior." Conveys the same thought in a more respectful tone.

[Mark_R]

 

I was as big a fan of Prior as anybody at one point. I'm soured on him now though. I want the Cubs to win first and foremost. I don't have sentimental value to the names and faces. That's a Moneyball philosophy, actually. As far as arguing goes, that's all that happens on this board. People have different opinions about things and feel strongly about them.

 

[george costanza] Can't you desour? Why can't you desour?[/george costanza]

 

Show me 2003 the rest of this season and all of next season (plus no DL), and I will desour. I don't see it happening, but if it somehow did, I would.

 

So he needs to be the best pitcher in the game or nothing?

 

I want to see him pitch at or close to what he's capable of. Z does it every year.

 

What happens if/when Dusty runs him into the ground? Will you sour on him too?

[srbin84]

 

I was as big a fan of Prior as anybody at one point. I'm soured on him now though. I want the Cubs to win first and foremost. I don't have sentimental value to the names and faces. That's a Moneyball philosophy, actually. As far as arguing goes, that's all that happens on this board. People have different opinions about things and feel strongly about them.

 

[george costanza] Can't you desour? Why can't you desour?[/george costanza]

 

Show me 2003 the rest of this season and all of next season (plus no DL), and I will desour. I don't see it happening, but if it somehow did, I would.

 

So he needs to be the best pitcher in the game or nothing?

 

I want to see him pitch at or close to what he's capable of. Z does it every year.

 

What happens if/when Dusty runs him into the ground? Will you sour on him too?

 

No, Prior had a very successful season performance and health wise in 2003. I don't hold the Giles thing against him at all. He's been a lot different ever since his injury at the beginning of 2004. Z's been doing it and doing it well without injury since he came up. I'm not saying everybody has to be as healthy as Z but certainly not even close to as oft-injured as Prior. Z's shown me he is a horse with multiple consecutive years of health and excellence. If he were to go down tomorrow as a result of whatever, I wouldn't sour on him. He's proven himself. The difference between some of you and myself is that one season isn't enough to prove to me that he is the pitcher of 2003. It was a great season, and I expected him to have many more great seasons. He gets hurt every year though, and he misses more and more starts while his production goes down. Prior def. WAS a great pitcher. I think the injuries have turned him into something else, and I don't like what I'm seeing, nor does any Cub fan. There have been a lot of guys who have had one great year and never came close to duplicating it again or at least never put out consistently like Z does. Look at Jerome Walton. Walton turned out to be worse than his first full season because he just wasn't that good and the league caught up with him. IMO, Prior is just like Walton, but his decline is due to the injuries because he was as talented as anyone. This is just my opinion. I never said it was impossible for Prior to start pitching like Z and do it for the rest of his career, but I don't see it happening. It seems like even some of you even agree with that, but you think he will end up being somewhere between his worst and best. Nobody knows for sure. Now, as far as the point of the thread is concerned, just read the first post again (or for the first time). It's the combination of two issues, keeping Prior and Dusty. I was just saying that if it is true that Dusty ruined Prior, why would you want to keep him? That's to say that you might love Prior but knowing he's damaged goods, wouldn't you want to trick some other team into thinking he wasn't by trading him after a nice hot streak? If he isn't damaged goods by what Dusty did in 2003, and you want to keep him and see how things turn out, that's totally understandable. However, if you believe that, don't blame Dusty in 2003 for what he is doing right now anymore. Evaluate him by his performance and credit him accordingly, positive or negative. I just think that's the objective way to look at it. To blame Dusty for ruining him and at the same time want to keep him and think he's going to rebound to his old form is contridictory IMO. Later people said, well, maybe Dusty just ruined him for a period of time (so far it's just about up to 3 years) and that he could all of the sudden start pitching closer to what he did in 2002 and 2003. That would allow one to both blame Dusty and have optimism Prior will become a great, healthy pitcher. I never really got the impression before this thread that people think Dusty just ruined him for something like 3 years or however long it's going to be. I don't really see how that could happen. I've never heard of anything like that before, and it seems kind of like a copout so Dusty can get the blame when Prior plays poorly while Prior gets credit if/when he does well. I don't think anybody who had one great full season deserves that because it was just one year and so much has happened production and injury wise since then.

[badger1679666666]

 

I was as big a fan of Prior as anybody at one point. I'm soured on him now though. I want the Cubs to win first and foremost. I don't have sentimental value to the names and faces. That's a Moneyball philosophy, actually. As far as arguing goes, that's all that happens on this board. People have different opinions about things and feel strongly about them.

 

[george costanza] Can't you desour? Why can't you desour?[/george costanza]

 

Show me 2003 the rest of this season and all of next season (plus no DL), and I will desour. I don't see it happening, but if it somehow did, I would.

 

So he needs to be the best pitcher in the game or nothing?

 

I want to see him pitch at or close to what he's capable of. Z does it every year.

 

What happens if/when Dusty runs him into the ground? Will you sour on him too?

 

No, Prior had a very successful season performance and health wise in 2003. I don't hold the Giles thing against him at all. He's been a lot different ever since his injury at the beginning of 2004. Z's been doing it and doing it well without injury since he came up. I'm not saying everybody has to be as healthy as Z but certainly not even close to as oft-injured as Prior. Z's shown me he is a horse with multiple consecutive years of health and excellence. If he were to go down tomorrow as a result of whatever, I wouldn't sour on him. He's proven himself. The difference between some of you and myself is that one season isn't enough to prove to me that he is the pitcher of 2003. It was a great season, and I expected him to have many more great seasons. He gets hurt every year though, and he misses more and more starts while his production goes down. Prior def. WAS a great pitcher. I think the injuries have turned him into something else, and I don't like what I'm seeing, nor does any Cub fan. There have been a lot of guys who have had one great year and never came close to duplicating it again or at least never put out consistently like Z does. Look at Jerome Walton. Walton turned out to be worse than his first full season because he just wasn't that good and the league caught up with him. IMO, Prior is just like Walton, but his decline is due to the injuries because he was as talented as anyone. This is just my opinion. I never said it was impossible for Prior to start pitching like Z and do it for the rest of his career, but I don't see it happening. It seems like even some of you even agree with that, but you think he will end up being somewhere between his worst and best. Nobody knows for sure. Now, as far as the point of the thread is concerned, just read the first post again (or for the first time). It's the combination of two issues, keeping Prior and Dusty. I was just saying that if it is true that Dusty ruined Prior, why would you want to keep him? That's to say that you might love Prior but knowing he's damaged goods, wouldn't you want to trick some other team into thinking he wasn't by trading him after a nice hot streak? If he isn't damaged goods by what Dusty did in 2003, and you want to keep him and see how things turn out, that's totally understandable. However, if you believe that, don't blame Dusty in 2003 for what he is doing right now anymore. Evaluate him by his performance and credit him accordingly, positive or negative. I just think that's the objective way to look at it. To blame Dusty for ruining him and at the same time want to keep him and think he's going to rebound to his old form is contridictory IMO. Later people said, well, maybe Dusty just ruined him for a period of time (so far it's just about up to 3 years) and that he could all of the sudden start pitching closer to what he did in 2002 and 2003. That would allow one to both blame Dusty and have optimism Prior will become a great, healthy pitcher. I never really got the impression before this thread that people think Dusty just ruined him for something like 3 years or however long it's going to be. I don't really see how that could happen. I've never heard of anything like that before, and it seems kind of like a copout so Dusty can get the blame when Prior plays poorly while Prior gets credit if/when he does well. I don't think anybody who had one great full season deserves that because it was just one year and so much has happened production and injury wise since then.

 

No one thinks he's damaged, irreperable goods except you (at least very few do). And for the MILLIONTH time, the "ruining" of prior need not be permanent. He just needs time to recover from Dusty's 3rd leading abuse points performance in 2003. Wood has yet to recover from the #1 most abused pitcher.

[Chocolate Milk]

Awesome.