Jacque's live bat

[RynoRules]

I wish he was more patient at the plate, b/c when he makes contact the ball really "jumps" off his bat. Might have the most "live" bat on the team. He's so streaky though. Had an awful April and good May, which means he's due for a bad June.

[Soul]

Seems like he's trying to imitate Griffey's sweet swing more than make good contact.

 

He's easily fooled. Right now he's doing pretty good. I never booed him. Never. But I would need to see consistent performance before changing my mind about him.

[RynoRules]

I'm not saing he has turned the corner, I am simply noting that when he makes contact the ball jumps off his bat. Of course, problem is that he does not make consistent contact andhis swing is longer than...well this is a family site.

[Pinktermite]

Jacque is not the problem, he's playing well...give the man his due credit.

[RynoRules]

Jacque is not the problem, he's playing well...give the man his due credit.

 

I agree. Problem is his consitency. Here's hoping he bucks his former trends and keeps it up.

 

:cheer:

[packiowa]

When Jones struggled, the Cubs were winning. Since Jones has been playing well, the Cubs are losing. Jones is not the problem. In fact, I'll take his play this year over Aramis.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Jones sucks threads = Jones doing good

 

I fear what Jones is good threads will do. Jones sucks!

[goonys evil twin]

When Jones struggled, the Cubs were winning. Since Jones has been playing well, the Cubs are losing. Jones is not the problem. In fact, I'll take his play this year over Aramis.

 

That's some questionable logic.

 

On April 28 the Cubs were 13-8 and Jacque Jones was hitting .231/.281/.500. On May 9 the Cubs were 14-18 and JJ was hitting .244/.289/.444.

 

Jones is indeed very much part of the problem. Yes, he has turned it up of late, and that's great, and yes he has outperformed Aramis. But his history indicates it won't last, and his extremely poor .317 OBP is hurting the team a lot already. Aramis is part of the problem, Jones is part of the problem, Pierre is an enormous part of the problem, everybody is part of the problem.

[Mizzou]

When Jones struggled, the Cubs were winning. Since Jones has been playing well, the Cubs are losing. Jones is not the problem. In fact, I'll take his play this year over Aramis.

 

That's some questionable logic.

 

On April 28 the Cubs were 13-8 and Jacque Jones was hitting .231/.281/.500. On May 9 the Cubs were 14-18 and JJ was hitting .244/.289/.444.

 

Jones is indeed very much part of the problem. Yes, he has turned it up of late, and that's great, and yes he has outperformed Aramis. But his history indicates it won't last, and his extremely poor .317 OBP is hurting the team a lot already. Aramis is part of the problem, Jones is part of the problem, Pierre is an enormous part of the problem, everybody is part of the problem.

I don't think I can agree with that. Yes, his OBP is low, but his SLG makes up for it. Only Michael Barrett has a higher OPS right now. Jones is doing his part.

[goonys evil twin]

I don't think I can agree with that. Yes, his OBP is low, but his SLG makes up for it. Only Michael Barrett has a higher OPS right now. Jones is doing his part.

 

He's doing what he can, but his presence still hurts the team overall. He sucked while the team was tanking. He's turned it on now that the team hit rock bottom. It's better than nothing, but it ain't good. And you can't just gloss over bad OBP, it's an enormous liability.

[Banedon]

I never booed him. Never.

 

I was at Friday's game, and booed him losing that ball in the outfield. I'll admit it. But all boos were more directed and general Cubs incompetence more than any individual.

 

Except Neifi. All Neifi boos were directed right at him.

[Pinktermite]

I just don't see how you can say that because the team had a better record when Jacque was doing poorly, that it's because of Jacque. That's like saying my Dad had a heart attack when it was raining, therefore the rain caused his heart attack. Neifi, the starting pitching, Neifi, no DLee, Neifi, Glendon as a starter, and Neifi are this team's problem. you guys are brutal, expending energy on whoever you pick to criticize on any given day.

[goonys evil twin]

I just don't see how you can say that because the team had a better record when Jacque was doing poorly, that it's because of Jacque. That's like saying my Dad had a heart attack when it was raining, therefore the rain caused his heart attack. Neifi, the starting pitching, Neifi, no DLee, Neifi, Glendon as a starter, and Neifi are this team's problem. you guys are brutal, expending energy on whoever you pick to criticize on any given day.

 

No Pierre? Ramirez? The rest of the 400 OPS bench?

[RynoRules]

There's enough blame to go 'round. Jacque has had some brutal moments, though (if you forget the drop last week) there have been far fewer lately. He's been pretty good. I was essentialy expressing my admiration for his pop and hoping that he can keep it up.

[goonys evil twin]

I was essentialy expressing my admiration for his pop and hoping that he can keep it up.

 

It is much needed.

[RynoRules]

I was essentialy expressing my admiration for his pop and hoping that he can keep it up.

 

It is much needed.

 

Along with several other things, too many to mention. Putting Nevin at first, moving Walker to second, and thus benching Neifi is a good start. When Lee gets back, we can hope that Neifi will next be associated with the organization known as "DFA".

[Fred Hornkohl]

I don't think I can agree with that. Yes, his OBP is low, but his SLG makes up for it. Only Michael Barrett has a higher OPS right now. Jones is doing his part.

 

He's doing what he can, but his presence still hurts the team overall. He sucked while the team was tanking. He's turned it on now that the team hit rock bottom. It's better than nothing, but it ain't good. And you can't just gloss over bad OBP, it's an enormous liability.

 

No, Goony, he did not suck when the team was tanking. Over the last 5 weeks, while the CUBS have gone 8-25, Jones has put up the following line....

 

04/26 - 05/31      AB    R    H   2B   3B   HR   TB  RBI   BB   SO     BA    OBP    SLG    OPS
Jones             112   12   35    6    0    6   59   20    4   18  0.313  0.342  0.527  0.869

 

Now, if that's sucking, well he can suck on my team any day. Only Tony Womack, in his limited 17 ABs, has a higher OPS than Jones. Now, I'm not suggesting that he's at all likely to continue to produce at this level, but that is not the question on the table.

 

Take a minute and look over these performances by the rest of the team during that period, and I'll bet you can find a whole lot players who really have sucked.

 

04/26 - 05/31      AB    R    H   2B   3B   HR   TB  RBI   BB   SO     BA    OBP    SLG    OPS
Womack             17    2    8    1    0    0    9    1    0    1  0.471  0.471  0.529  1.000
Jones             112   12   35    6    0    6   59   20    4   18  0.313  0.342  0.527  0.869
Bynum              33    4    8    0    2    2   18    6    1   12  0.242  0.286  0.545  0.831
Ramirez           123   16   33    9    1    6   62   16    6    9  0.268  0.311  0.504  0.815
Barrett            88    9   24    3    3    2   39    6    9    9  0.273  0.350  0.443  0.793
Murton             96   15   27    4    0    2   37    7   10   14  0.281  0.358  0.385  0.743
Walker            112   12   32    7    0    1   42   14   14   12  0.286  0.359  0.375  0.734
Restovich           8    0    2    1    0    0    3    1    1    2  0.250  0.333  0.375  0.708
Cedeno            121    9   33    1    1    1   39    8    4   23  0.273  0.294  0.322  0.616
Pierre            138   14   31    5    2    0   40    2    8   12  0.225  0.272  0.290  0.562
Perez              68    6   14    1    1    0   17    8    3    4  0.206  0.236  0.250  0.486
Hairston           58    3    9    2    0    0   11    3    2   10  0.155  0.197  0.190  0.386
Mabry              43    1    5    0    0    0    5    0    6   10  0.116  0.240  0.116  0.356
Blanco             32    0    2    0    0    0    2    3    3    5  0.063  0.139  0.063  0.201
Theriot             4    1    0    0    0    0    0    0    1    1  0.000  0.200  0.000  0.200

33 game totals   1106  106  272   43   10   20  395   99   73  155  0.246  0.297  0.357  0.654

 

 

04/26 - 05/31        IP    H    R   ER   BB    K   HR    PC  BB/9   K/9  HR/9  WHIP   ERA
Howry              15.7   12    4    4    2    9    2   243  1.15  5.17  1.15  0.89  2.30
Ohman              17.7   15    5    5    6   18    1   273  3.06  9.17  0.51  1.19  2.55
Eyre               17.7   13    7    6    8   24    3   309  4.08 12.23  1.53  1.19  3.06
Zambrano           46.7   31   16   16   27   52    5   780  5.21 10.03  0.96  1.24  3.09
Williamson         12.0    6    5    5    9   13    0   198  6.75  9.75  0.00  1.25  3.75
Wood               16.0   12    9    8    6   13    4   242  3.38  7.31  2.25  1.13  4.50
Dempster           13.0   12    9    8    5   15    1   199  3.46 10.38  0.69  1.31  5.54
Marshall           32.3   31   20   20   19   23    1   528  5.29  6.40  0.28  1.55  5.57
Novoa              17.7   18   15   12   14   18    4   392  7.13  9.17  2.04  1.81  6.11
Maddux             39.3   55   30   29   11   24    4   574  2.52  5.49  0.92  1.68  6.64
Aardsma             4.0    4    3    3    4    4    2    86  9.00  9.00  4.50  2.00  6.75
Guzman             18.0   20   16   14   16   20    2   378  8.00 10.00  1.00  2.00  7.00
Rusch              17.3   22   17   15    9   17    6   360  4.67  8.83  3.12  1.79  7.79
Hill               19.3   23   20   20   15   11    5   344  6.98  5.12  2.33  1.97  9.31
Wuertz              1.0    3    2    2    2    1    0    46 18.00  9.00  0.00  5.00 18.00
Ryu                 2.3    8    7    7    2    2    4    55  7.71  7.71 15.43  4.29 27.00

33 game totals    290.0  285  185  174  155  264   44  5007  4.81  8.19  1.37  1.52  5.40

[JGalt73]

NL Right Field VORP Leaders

 

1. Bradley Hawpe 18.8

2. Bobby Abreu 16.9

3. Moises Alou 14.1

4. Austin Kearns 10.8

5. Shawn Green 10.1

6. J.D. Drew 9.7

7. Brian Giles 8.4

8. Xavier Nady 5.1

9. Jacque Jones 4.5

10. Geoff Jenkins 2.0

 

Jones' body of work this year is far from impressive. 9th in the NL for RF, 20th in MLB.

[goonys evil twin]

I don't think I can agree with that. Yes, his OBP is low, but his SLG makes up for it. Only Michael Barrett has a higher OPS right now. Jones is doing his part.

 

He's doing what he can, but his presence still hurts the team overall. He sucked while the team was tanking. He's turned it on now that the team hit rock bottom. It's better than nothing, but it ain't good. And you can't just gloss over bad OBP, it's an enormous liability.

 

No, Goony, he did not suck when the team was tanking. Over the last 5 weeks, while the CUBS have gone 8-25, Jones has put up the following line....

 

Fred, go back and read all of what I wrote in regards to this situation. From late April to early May, when the tanking started, Jones sucked. He's picked it up of late, long after the team was in the crapper. Good for him. Doesn't really help much though.

[TB_11]

Jones is indeed very much part of the problem. Yes, he has turned it up of late, and that's great, and yes he has outperformed Aramis. But his history indicates it won't last, and his extremely poor .317 OBP is hurting the team a lot already. Aramis is part of the problem, Jones is part of the problem, Pierre is an enormous part of the problem, everybody is part of the problem.

 

The big difference between Jones and Aramis/Pierre is that a .317 OBP and near .500 SLG is what fans should expect out of Jones, while Aramis and Pierre are playing below the level they should be at. If .317/.500 out of RF is a problem, it's Hendry's fault (who unfortunately is a huge part of the problem).

[goonys evil twin]

Jones is indeed very much part of the problem. Yes, he has turned it up of late, and that's great, and yes he has outperformed Aramis. But his history indicates it won't last, and his extremely poor .317 OBP is hurting the team a lot already. Aramis is part of the problem, Jones is part of the problem, Pierre is an enormous part of the problem, everybody is part of the problem.

 

The big difference between Jones and Aramis/Pierre is that a .317 OBP and near .500 SLG is what fans should expect out of Jones, while Aramis and Pierre are playing below the level they should be at. If .317/.500 out of RF is a problem, it's Hendry's fault (who unfortunately is a huge part of the problem).

 

No doubt.

[packiowa]

When Jones struggled, the Cubs were winning. Since Jones has been playing well, the Cubs are losing. Jones is not the problem. In fact, I'll take his play this year over Aramis.

 

That's some questionable logic.

 

On April 28 the Cubs were 13-8 and Jacque Jones was hitting .231/.281/.500. On May 9 the Cubs were 14-18 and JJ was hitting .244/.289/.444.

 

Jones is indeed very much part of the problem. Yes, he has turned it up of late, and that's great, and yes he has outperformed Aramis. But his history indicates it won't last, and his extremely poor .317 OBP is hurting the team a lot already. Aramis is part of the problem, Jones is part of the problem, Pierre is an enormous part of the problem, everybody is part of the problem.

 

If people want to look for reasons to blame this season on Jacque Jones, go ahead. With the exception of some horrible throws, he's played well in the outfield, ranging better than anyone in that position for years. People need to get over the 0-12 start he had, b/c that sure seemed to set the tone for fans' perceptions. The Cubs won during Jones' early struggles, but he did provide a few key hits during that stretch (even though the hits weren't frequent). Since the Cubs have sunk below .500, he has hit well.

 

In conclusion. My logic is not as poor as some indicate (those people should re-read my claims about being "the problem" and provide some post-.500 stats that aren't skewed by early struggles before they preach from their soap box).

 

When the Cubs looked good, Cubs fans started to hate JJ for his lack of production.

 

Since the Cubs started playing horrible, Cubs fans don't care that JJ has hit well, b/c the team has been sooo bad.

[packiowa]

I don't think I can agree with that. Yes, his OBP is low, but his SLG makes up for it. Only Michael Barrett has a higher OPS right now. Jones is doing his part.

 

He's doing what he can, but his presence still hurts the team overall. He sucked while the team was tanking. He's turned it on now that the team hit rock bottom. It's better than nothing, but it ain't good. And you can't just gloss over bad OBP, it's an enormous liability.

 

No, Goony, he did not suck when the team was tanking. Over the last 5 weeks, while the CUBS have gone 8-25, Jones has put up the following line....

 

Fred, go back and read all of what I wrote in regards to this situation. From late April to early May, when the tanking started, Jones sucked. He's picked it up of late, long after the team was in the crapper. Good for him. Doesn't really help much though.

 

I read what you wrote Goony, and Fred answered it directly. You quoted Jones' season batting averages (even though this stat is really out of place in this argument) as of April 28 and May 9, trying to prove that Jones season hasn't been good. It looks like you might have missed what was written, b/c nobody is claiming that JJ has been good all year, or that his season stats are good. We did claim that Jones' has played well during the tank and is not "the problem" (leaving aside the issue that everyone is part of the problem) he's being made out to be by many.

 

Fred provided the "on point" stats. Between April 26 and May31 Jones' numbers look pretty good. He's not a savior, but he's hasn't been a problem for over a month.

 

So the Cubs were 13-8 as of April 28. Jones stats as of April 26 are pretty good. How is 13-8 in the crapper? Even 13-13? I'll take a .500 team come August in most years.

[3finger]

NL Right Field VORP Leaders

 

1. Bradley Hawpe 18.8

2. Bobby Abreu 16.9

3. Moises Alou 14.1

4. Austin Kearns 10.8

5. Shawn Green 10.1

6. J.D. Drew 9.7

7. Brian Giles 8.4

8. Xavier Nady 5.1

9. Jacque Jones 4.5

10. Geoff Jenkins 2.0

 

Jones' body of work this year is far from impressive. 9th in the NL for RF, 20th in MLB.

 

Jones hasn't been the worst of the Cubs' problems this year, but I think this list gets at the key point: RF is supposed to be a high-production position, and Jones has never really put up the numbers necessary to be an asset in right.

 

Jones' adjusted OPS for his career:

 

1999 96

2000 89

2001 96

2002 125

2003 106

2004 90

2005 99

 

He's only beaten the league twice in his career, while a RF should be beating the league significantly each year.

 

Elsewhere (maybe in this forum, I can't remember) there is some discussion of moving Jones to CF. If he can play center adequately, and Hendry can find a real bat for right, the Cubs could squeeze some value out of him. I suspect those are really big "ifs."

[goonys evil twin]

When the Cubs looked good, Cubs fans started to hate JJ for his lack of production.

 

Since the Cubs started playing horrible, Cubs fans don't care that JJ has hit well, b/c the team has been sooo bad.

 

But when they actually started playing poorly, he was still really bad.