Time to get behind who we have??

[CuseCubFan69]

IMO, you need 7 solid starters, one as a swing and a guy you can call up to give you some quaity innings as a 5th starter. If Rusch can give some quality innings and if a Guzman or another young guy could step up I think the Cubs will have a decent chance to compete.

 

You do need 7 avail. starters w/2 of those able to be somewhat productive as injury replacement, one of those (Rusch) would be in the bullpen as a long reliever/swingman and the other would be in the Iowa rotation.

 

I still feel at various points, that each starter should skip two starts during the year by Rusch during the dog days of Summer and to get them ready for the stretch run.

 

While Rothschild (not Baker) should use his eyes to monitor the pitcher's fatigue, around 110-115, they should put serious thought into who'll be ready from the pen.

 

I still wonder about this Rothchild/Baker relationship and how they communicate when a pitcher is fatigued. I'm also curious on how well Rothchild recoginizes a fatigued pitcher.

 

Just remember watching Zambrano as he was getting closer to 140 pitches. He was out of gas, every pitch was up, his arm slot/elbow was down (elbow below the shoulder), rushing his pitches, and taking too much time between his pitches.

 

He had to have seen it, not sure what happened after that as far as Rothschild/Pole telling Baker or what not and then maybe trying to squeeze as much as out of him as possible.

 

Since Baker is an ex-OF I wonder if that lack of knowledge about breakdowns is why he rides pitchers so hard? He seems to be a stubburn type of man and I wonder how this also falls into his managing decisions?

[UK1679666180]

I don't know the reasoning behind keeping Zambrano out there despite the obvious reasons of him pitching productively (not well, you can never pitch well when fatigued w/altered mechanics) and they were in the midst of a losing streak.

 

To me, him pitching productively and ending a losing streak isn't worth putting Zambrano at that risk. I think that's where I differ in how I feel the pitchers should be handled. A couple of years ago, I can remember Wood doing the same things in a 2-1 win against the Cards and Woody Williams on the mound, where Wood was at 140 pitches and obnviously fatigued, yet still out there.

[CubDad4Ever]

First of all , this is on of my favorite threads that have appeared on this site. To view people i have agreed with, disagreed with on various points , show that they are cub fans by being excited about the coming season is cool. It never bothers me , that someone is dissapointed enough to blame management or players. Nor does it bug, to see hopelessly incridible optimism. Like stats vrs scouts , the beauty is the love of baseball. The passion we have for the cubs is expressed in a variety of ways. Its been a tough couple weeks for my family, my wifes dad is in the final stage of a pretty severe bout with cancer. My faith carries me , but having fun reading and sharing our common love of the cubs is a heck of a great distraction from the pain. May God Bless all of your days. Im thankful for each and every one of you. Coach L.

[CuseCubFan69]

I don't know the reasoning behind keeping Zambrano out there despite the obvious reasons of him pitching productively (not well, you can never pitch well when fatigued w/altered mechanics) and they were in the midst of a losing streak.

 

To me, him pitching productively and ending a losing streak isn't worth putting Zambrano at that risk. I think that's where I differ in how I feel the pitchers should be handled. A couple of years ago, I can remember Wood doing the same things in a 2-1 win against the Cards and Woody Williams on the mound, where Wood was at 140 pitches and obnviously fatigued, yet still out there.

 

Baker has got to learn to have more faith in his whole staff.

 

I've coached with and against many coaches that did the exact same thing as Baker did in that circumstance. When you push that button a little too far and hope that it's the thing that can break a slide while hoping that you don't snap that particular pitcher for the season or the next X amount of starts. I usually gamble the other direction but have been guilty riding a 4 or 5 type pitcher a little more than I should have when my options have been exhausted.

[UK1679666180]

I've coached with and against many coaches that did the exact same thing as Baker did in that circumstance. When you push that button a little too far and hope that it's the thing that can break a slide while hoping that you don't snap that particular pitcher for the season or the next X amount of starts. I usually gamble the other direction but have been guilty riding a 4 or 5 type pitcher a little more than I should have when my options have been exhausted

 

Although, I'm not a HS coach. I would follow the ASMI as close as possible, although I think 106 is too high for a 17yo. and what part of the year it is, as well as weather conditions play a large factor. I don't think a Fresh. pitcher should throw more than 75 pitches a game and I would put a limit at around 100 for a 17/18, more likely around 95 pitches. Equally as important is not letting your pitcher throw more than 25 pitches an inning, if he has a bad inning or facing a superior team.

 

As a coach, you know whether or not a pitcher can advance to the next level, even if a pitcher doesn't have much of a chance, it is your responsibility for him to decide that and not you by exposing his arm to extreme wear and team in HS.

[CuseCubFan69]

I've coached with and against many coaches that did the exact same thing as Baker did in that circumstance. When you push that button a little too far and hope that it's the thing that can break a slide while hoping that you don't snap that particular pitcher for the season or the next X amount of starts. I usually gamble the other direction but have been guilty riding a 4 or 5 type pitcher a little more than I should have when my options have been exhausted

 

Although, I'm not a HS coach. I would follow the ASMI as close as possible, although I think 106 is too high for a 17yo. and what part of the year it is, as well as weather conditions play a large factor. I don't think a Fresh. pitcher should throw more than 75 pitches a game and I would put a limit at around 100 for a 17/18, more likely around 95 pitches. Equally as important is not letting your pitcher throw more than 25 pitches an inning, if he has a bad inning or facing a superior team.

 

As a coach, you know whether or not a pitcher can advance to the next level, even if a pitcher doesn't have much of a chance, it is your responsibility for him to decide that and not you by exposing his arm to extreme wear and team in HS.

 

I can't tell you how many parents/fans I've annoyed the Hell out of by taking a pitcher out after X amount of pitches when we have the lead and the next kid comes in a struggles. As you mentioned there are many variables that go into the pitch count process like the beginning of the year and ages of the players which also is what Baker has to take into consideration.

 

I tend to baby the heck out of my kids arms and always will and I've only went 100 (107) pitches with a kid once in my life and that was against an undefeated rival and my kid threw a 2 hitter. I DH'd him for 2 games after that but I felt I owed it to him to keep him in there.

[CuseCubFan69]

Although, I'm not a HS coach. I would follow the ASMI as close as possible, although I think 106 is too high for a 17yo. and what part of the year it is, as well as weather conditions play a large factor. I don't think a Fresh. pitcher should throw more than 75 pitches a game and I would put a limit at around 100 for a 17/18, more likely around 95 pitches. Equally as important is not letting your pitcher throw more than 25 pitches an inning, if he has a bad inning or facing a superior team.

 

As a coach, you know whether or not a pitcher can advance to the next level, even if a pitcher doesn't have much of a chance, it is your responsibility for him to decide that and not you by exposing his arm to extreme wear and team in HS.

 

I agree it is my resposibility for that player and I have the big picture to look at....his health being number one and not burning him out at a young age for another. Another problem I have is when they pitch in other leagues during and after my season. If I have a kid that pitches for me and he throws for a Little League team too he is NOT allowed to pitch for the LL team and if he does without my permission he is kicked off my team. The thing that hurts these kids in many circumstances is the win at all costs in LL and after a kid pitches the whole 6 innings he's back at SS 2 days later. I remember pitching and playing SS or 3rd a couple of days later and my arm being in total pain.

 

I also think the stretching and other workout habits a player does is a big determining factor. Yeah, genetics helps but the Cubs know what each player does and doesn't do with their time off. Unfortunately most pitchers don't really get serious about doing the right things until they get hurt first.

[UK1679666180]

Once you start getting involved with Summer travel teams, it goes out the window as far as being able to monitor pitchers, they also start getting into the 120IP range.

 

Although, FB is an injury prone sport, having them play other sports somethimes gets them involved with different muscle groups as well as better conditioning programs and limits pitchers especially. Basketball is so involved with short bursts, that it helps in that regard.

[CuseCubFan69]

Once you start getting involved with Summer travel teams, it goes out the window as far as being able to monitor pitchers, they also start getting into the 120IP range.

 

Although, FB is an injury prone sport, having them play other sports somethimes gets them involved with different muscle groups as well as better conditioning programs and limits pitchers especially. Basketball is so involved with short bursts, that it helps in that regard.

 

Summer All-Star/Travel teams really burn me at times. I had a kid that was a wonderful pitcher and he was the #1 starter on an All-Star team. In their push to make it to the reginals they threw him 7 innings and then started him the next day. He lasted 4 innings and was toast from there on for the rest of his career....never the same. I told his parents that they have to watch out for him when he was away from me but they didn't really realize the damage it could do and what things to look for. I just can not stand the "I have to live through my kid complex" too many parents have or coaches that have that win at all cost thing to boost their own ego.

 

I try to get the kids to swim in the off-season, especially in the winter. It drives me crazy when some coaches from other sports push kids into one sport.

 

The tough thing about Baseball is:

 

A- We are at the end of the school year and kids get a little tired after playing 1 or 2 sports.

 

B- Unlike football...grades have to be up and we don't have that luxury to not have grades posted until our season is over.