Post-Strike: What "Saved" Baseball?

[Mark_R]

I've seen various postings on here about distaste for fantasy sports, and Tim's comment being preceded by the "I may take heat for this..." disclaimer.

 

What's with the fantasy disdain?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I've seen various postings on here about distaste for fantasy sports, and Tim's comment being preceded by the "I may take heat for this..." disclaimer.

 

What's with the fantasy disdain?

 

I've said that I don't like fantasy baseball, I suck at it and I don't really like playing it.

[Abe Frohman]

I agree that the increased offensive output, led by the Sosa/McGwire HR race of 98 really helped boost the interest/forgiveness of baseball after the strike.

 

Unfortunately, in the longrun, that same thing is (in my opinion) ruining the game even more deeply than the strike of 94. At least to baseball purists.

 

The game will never be able to determine exactly who was using PEDs, only that the records are definately tainted now. It's a damned shame.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I've seen various postings on here about distaste for fantasy sports, and Tim's comment being preceded by the "I may take heat for this..." disclaimer.

 

What's with the fantasy disdain?

 

I've said that I don't like fantasy baseball, I suck at it and I don't really like playing it.

 

I don't necessarily dislike fantasy baseball, but I think the fantasy should have stopped after football. The others just aren't as fun.

 

What saved baseball? Time. The HR chace in 98 just helped speed things along. Had that not happened, we would have waited another year or two for those same fans to come back.

[K-Town]

I agree that the increased offensive output, led by the Sosa/McGwire HR race of 98 really helped boost the interest/forgiveness of baseball after the strike.

 

Unfortunately, in the longrun, that same thing is (in my opinion) ruining the game even more deeply than the strike of 94. At least to baseball purists.

The game will never be able to determine exactly who was using PEDs, only that the records are definately tainted now. It's a damned shame.

 

What "purists"? The ones that didn't allow blacks to play until the 1950's? The ones that ignored amphetamines in the 70's? The ones that ignored cocaine in the 80's?

 

Come on. Pretending that this generation of ball players is any more tainted than any other isn't fair. Each generation uses whatever they can to gain an advantage. If steroids had been easily accesilble in the 1970's, then you'd probably be talking about George Foster, Hank Aaron, Dave Parker, and Andre Dawson "ruining the game".

 

"Purists" only means that they haven't figured out a way to to it better yet.

[fallingpieces]

 

What "purists"? The ones that didn't allow blacks to play until the 1950's? The ones that ignored amphetamines in the 70's? The ones that ignored cocaine in the 80's?

 

Come on. Pretending that this generation of ball players is any more tainted than any other isn't fair. Each generation uses whatever they can to gain an advantage. If steroids had been easily accesilble in the 1970's, then you'd probably be talking about George Foster, Hank Aaron, Dave Parker, and Andre Dawson "ruining the game".

 

"Purists" only means that they haven't figured out a way to to it better yet.

 

I love the way that the game used to be played in an unselfish manner. Is that so bad? I'm not a racist, and I know about the doping problems within the sport. Too many times I watch the game today, and see a chance to win the game, but the hitter swings for a 600 ft. homer, rather than just attempt to make contact. Remember when players showed class when hitting a homerun, and didn't stand around to watch, taunt, and talk smack the entire time their running the bases(or their held to a single while admiring their shot)? That happened sometimes, but everyone is more concerned now about bringing down an opponent instead of respecting them. Sure there are positives and negatives about each generation of baseball, but everyone is going to enjoy their generation more.

[K-Town]

 

What "purists"? The ones that didn't allow blacks to play until the 1950's? The ones that ignored amphetamines in the 70's? The ones that ignored cocaine in the 80's?

 

Come on. Pretending that this generation of ball players is any more tainted than any other isn't fair. Each generation uses whatever they can to gain an advantage. If steroids had been easily accesilble in the 1970's, then you'd probably be talking about George Foster, Hank Aaron, Dave Parker, and Andre Dawson "ruining the game".

 

"Purists" only means that they haven't figured out a way to to it better yet.

 

I love the way that the game used to be played in an unselfish manner. Is that so bad? I'm not a racist, and I know about the doping problems within the sport. Too many times I watch the game today, and see a chance to win the game, but the hitter swings for a 600 ft. homer, rather than just attempt to make contact. Remember when players showed class when hitting a homerun, and didn't stand around to watch, taunt, and talk smack the entire time their running the bases(or their held to a single while admiring their shot)? That happened sometimes, but everyone is more concerned now about bringing down an opponent instead of respecting them. Sure there are positives and negatives about each generation of baseball, but everyone is going to enjoy their generation more.

 

"Unselfish manner"? How is it "unselfish" to disallow blacks from playing? That's about as selfish as you can get.

 

As far as hot-dogging around the bases, I'm not sure which era your referring to, specifically. I remember Jeffrey Leonard show-boating around the bases against the Cardinals in the playoffs, in 1987. I remember Jack Clark watching some of his home runs. Hell, Babe Ruth alledgedly pointing to the centerfield bleachers could be considered "showboating", but most people consider that to be "cool". That aspect of the game hasn't changed much, in my opinion. We just see it more now, because of ESPN. Alot of people are just looking for a reason to bag on players today, but they're really no different than players of other eras.

[fallingpieces]

 

What "purists"? The ones that didn't allow blacks to play until the 1950's? The ones that ignored amphetamines in the 70's? The ones that ignored cocaine in the 80's?

 

Come on. Pretending that this generation of ball players is any more tainted than any other isn't fair. Each generation uses whatever they can to gain an advantage. If steroids had been easily accesilble in the 1970's, then you'd probably be talking about George Foster, Hank Aaron, Dave Parker, and Andre Dawson "ruining the game".

 

"Purists" only means that they haven't figured out a way to to it better yet.

 

I love the way that the game used to be played in an unselfish manner. Is that so bad? I'm not a racist, and I know about the doping problems within the sport. Too many times I watch the game today, and see a chance to win the game, but the hitter swings for a 600 ft. homer, rather than just attempt to make contact. Remember when players showed class when hitting a homerun, and didn't stand around to watch, taunt, and talk smack the entire time their running the bases(or their held to a single while admiring their shot)? That happened sometimes, but everyone is more concerned now about bringing down an opponent instead of respecting them. Sure there are positives and negatives about each generation of baseball, but everyone is going to enjoy their generation more.

 

"Unselfish manner"? How is it "unselfish" to disallow blacks from playing? That's about as selfish as you can get.

 

As far as hot-dogging around the bases, I'm not sure which era your referring to, specifically. I remember Jeffrey Leonard show-boating around the bases against the Cardinals in the playoffs, in 1987. I remember Jack Clark watching some of his home runs. Hell, Babe Ruth alledgedly pointing to the centerfield bleachers could be considered "showboating", but most people consider that to be "cool". That aspect of the game hasn't changed much, in my opinion. We just see it more now, because of ESPN. Alot of people are just looking for a reason to bag on players today, but they're really no different than players of other eras.

 

Here just so you now where I'm coming from:

 

THIS IS NOT A RACIAL EQUALITY ISSUE. I AM TALKING ABOUT ON THE FIELD!

 

After a small breath of air I can continue now. Look back at a lot of the old footage of players who were elite. Most of the stock footage I have show the players hitting a homerun, and running the bases. Today you have a ton of players that will showboat, and try to show up their opponent. There are a lot more players that are trying to do whatever they can to get their name in the papers, and on Espn. This is common in all sports today, not just baseball, and that is a problem with my generation.

[K-Town]

Here just so you now where I'm coming from:

 

THIS IS NOT A RACIAL EQUALITY ISSUE. I AM TALKING ABOUT ON THE FIELD!

 

After a small breath of air I can continue now. Look back at a lot of the old footage of players who were elite. Most of the stock footage I have show the players hitting a homerun, and running the bases. Today you have a ton of players that will showboat, and try to show up their opponent. There are a lot more players that are trying to do whatever they can to get their name in the papers, and on Espn. This is common in all sports today, not just baseball, and that is a problem with my generation.

 

I disagree. I think that players have show-boated since the game began. You just see it more now, because of ESPN.

[fallingpieces]

It was nowhere near wide spread until Espn came around, and players could watch themselves regularly.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I disagree. I think that players have show-boated since the game began. You just see it more now, because of ESPN.

 

You're right that you see it more now because of ESPN, but that is the reason it occurs more now. Showboating back in the day meant getting "one in the ear" on your next trip to the plate. The showboating did not occur nearly as regularly as early as 10-15 years ago. I don't care if it's Barry Bonds or Todd Hundley or Babe Ruth or Bip Roberts -- if you hit a home run, drop your head and the bat and trot around the bases.

 

Babe Ruth calling his shot, which is still an item of debate and one that I doubt actually happened, is much different that Barry Bonds taking off his armor and walking halfway to first after launching another toward McCovey Cove.

[K-Town]

This IS a game, folks. It's supposed to be fun. I don't have a problem with a guy being happy about hitting a home run.

[Outshined_One]

Come on, enough with the Norman Rockwell/George Will nostalgia crap. It's a load and to maintain otherwise is just ignorant.

 

Players in the old days were showboats. They were jerks. They were egomaniacs. They did things on the field that, if they happened today, would send the sports media into an absolute uproar. Whether it was stealing signs, scuffing balls, corking bats, screwing around with the basepaths, or whatever, this stuff has been going on since baseball has been played as a professional sport.

 

If anything, not much has changed since those days. With the changes that have happened, I'd maintain that baseball is better for those happening.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

This IS a game, folks. It's supposed to be fun. I don't have a problem with a guy being happy about hitting a home run.

 

Hitting a 2-run shot when down 1 in the bottom of the 9th is one thing. Hitting a solo shot when up 7 in the 4th is another.

[fallingpieces]

While it may be a game it reflects poorly on the team, the game, and the player. The thing about this game is it is a learning experience for some kids growing up(not saying the players, but the game). They learn how to work together and accomplish a task. How would you like your kid to learn teamwork doesn't mean anything, don't respect an opponent in a debate, and so on? Even though it is just a game it is still a reflection on the individual playing the game.

 

Just real quick so we both know I understand a lot of players from today do a lot for their community, and are probably better people than some of the good ol boys. I am speaking from a pure representation of themselves on the field, and they way they carry themselves.

[K-Town]

This IS a game, folks. It's supposed to be fun. I don't have a problem with a guy being happy about hitting a home run.

 

Hitting a 2-run shot when down 1 in the bottom of the 9th is one thing. Hitting a solo shot when up 7 in the 4th is another.

 

 

You don't want the guy to showboat? Then get him out in the 4th inning.

 

I think people exaggerate about players showboating today. It's blown out of proportion, in my opinion. Most players are classy. There are a few idiots in every crowd, just like there have always been.

[K-Town]

While it may be a game it reflects poorly on the team, the game, and the player. The thing about this game is it is a learning experience for some kids growing up(not saying the players, but the game). They learn how to work together and accomplish a task. How would you like your kid to learn teamwork doesn't mean anything, don't respect an opponent in a debate, and so on? Even though it is just a game it is still a reflection on the individual playing the game.

 

Just real quick so we both know I understand a lot of players from today do a lot for their community, and are probably better people than some of the good ol boys. I am speaking from a pure representation of themselves on the field, and they way they carry themselves.

 

If you consider that to be a problem, then I think you're misrepresenting it as a baseball problem. It's as much a problem with society as it is with baseball.

[fallingpieces]

While it may be a game it reflects poorly on the team, the game, and the player. The thing about this game is it is a learning experience for some kids growing up(not saying the players, but the game). They learn how to work together and accomplish a task. How would you like your kid to learn teamwork doesn't mean anything, don't respect an opponent in a debate, and so on? Even though it is just a game it is still a reflection on the individual playing the game.

 

Just real quick so we both know I understand a lot of players from today do a lot for their community, and are probably better people than some of the good ol boys. I am speaking from a pure representation of themselves on the field, and they way they carry themselves.

 

If you consider that to be a problem, then I think you're misrepresenting it as a baseball problem. It's as much a problem with society as it is with baseball.

 

It's not a misrepresentation if it is helping to contribute to other problems.

[Abe Frohman]

K-Town, when I say "Purists," I am referring to players being on the same playing field. You make a good point referring to the exclusion of African Americans from the game - that is far from pure in an impure time.

 

Still, that is not comparable to men injecting themselves with horse steroids. It is not acceptable to me that Club Owners and the Commisioner, not to mention the President of the Players Union, brushed off the knowledge that PEDs were widespread because of the economic turnaround that the abuse created.

 

Yes, it was WRONG that black Americans were discriminated against. Those were far from the "Good old days." The Major Leagues have had an element of corruption ever since day one, but that is no reason NOT to criticise it.

 

African Americans NOW play in the Major Leagues. We will always look back and shake our heads.

 

We should also look back (in the future) and recognize the problem that is PEDs, and why it was allowed to happen.

[Tanner_20]

baseball saved baseball