Nomar to Dodgers.

[Warpticon]

Ahh... too bad. I was hoping for a Barrett, CPatt, Walker and Williams for Lowe and Drew deal. WHo would cathc for us you might ask. The answer? Bengie Molina, who is getting no love, and would be an upgrade defensively and a wash offensively for us. LA does it to free up lots of money and to get younger. We do it, because it solves our RF problem, as well as bolstering (sort of) our rotation. LA could have played Walker at 2B and Kent at 1B... heck, they still could play Walker in LF, Kent at 1B and Nomar at 2B. They need a cathcer badly, but cannot afford a good one like Molina. If they made this deal with us, they'd free up 20 million in 2006, enough to pay Nomar, Walker, CP, Williams, Barrett, a free agent OF, AND to re-sign Weaver.

 

We'd need a 2B, but that appears to be easier to find than a RF...

 

Benjie isn't a wash offensively, it's a pretty huge downgrade. This was the best offensive season of Molina's career, and he wasn't within 40 OPS points of Barrett. It was also the first time in his career he's cracked a .750 OPS, while Barrett has been an .825 OPS guy since he's been here, and is two years younger.

 

Actually, if you want to use the stats objectively (instead of subjectively, as many people here do when they have a point to prove) you would see that, in their careers, Barrett does have a better OPS... .740 to Molina's .704. .036 points. That's not a great deal. Barrett is a higher OPS guy, but hitting in the 7th or 8th spot, I want avg. Not OBP. Hits drive in runs that low in the order. OBP gets you on for a pitcher who gets on base at a .185 clip.

 

Power is basically even. OBP and SLG are pluses for Barrett, no doubt. But, it's fairly even. And, with the defensive upgrade we'd get (a pretty big one, at that) I feel that Molina would be a nice pickup, especially if it netted us a RF and SP.

 

Hey, you are entitled to disagree with me. I'm just not on the NSBB OPS Bandwagon, necessarily. The game is actually more than that. Average actually matters, too... though you'd never know it from around here.

 

A couple of questions. How is looking at career OPS somehow more objective than any of the other ways stats are being used? And how is .036 in OPS over a career not a great deal?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Ahh... too bad. I was hoping for a Barrett, CPatt, Walker and Williams for Lowe and Drew deal. WHo would cathc for us you might ask. The answer? Bengie Molina, who is getting no love, and would be an upgrade defensively and a wash offensively for us. LA does it to free up lots of money and to get younger. We do it, because it solves our RF problem, as well as bolstering (sort of) our rotation. LA could have played Walker at 2B and Kent at 1B... heck, they still could play Walker in LF, Kent at 1B and Nomar at 2B. They need a cathcer badly, but cannot afford a good one like Molina. If they made this deal with us, they'd free up 20 million in 2006, enough to pay Nomar, Walker, CP, Williams, Barrett, a free agent OF, AND to re-sign Weaver.

 

We'd need a 2B, but that appears to be easier to find than a RF...

 

Benjie isn't a wash offensively, it's a pretty huge downgrade. This was the best offensive season of Molina's career, and he wasn't within 40 OPS points of Barrett. It was also the first time in his career he's cracked a .750 OPS, while Barrett has been an .825 OPS guy since he's been here, and is two years younger.

 

Actually, if you want to use the stats objectively (instead of subjectively, as many people here do when they have a point to prove) you would see that, in their careers, Barrett does have a better OPS... .740 to Molina's .704. .036 points. That's not a great deal. Barrett is a higher OPS guy, but hitting in the 7th or 8th spot, I want avg. Not OBP. Hits drive in runs that low in the order. OBP gets you on for a pitcher who gets on base at a .185 clip.

 

Power is basically even. OBP and SLG are pluses for Barrett, no doubt. But, it's fairly even. And, with the defensive upgrade we'd get (a pretty big one, at that) I feel that Molina would be a nice pickup, especially if it netted us a RF and SP.

 

Hey, you are entitled to disagree with me. I'm just not on the NSBB OPS Bandwagon, necessarily. The game is actually more than that. Average actually matters, too... though you'd never know it from around here.

 

Using their career numbers is deceiving because of the age gap and the fact that Barrett is a markedly better hitter than earlier in his career. The power is not basically even. Barrett's consistently has been around a .200 since he's been a Cub, which are much closer to what he's likely to do going forward. The highest IsoP Molina has ever had is around .160, and for his career, which doesn't have nearly the variance as Barrett's does, it's .120.

 

As far as average goes, without sidetracking into a philosophical discussion, I'll disagree that average is more important than OBP or even SLG, no matter the spot in the order. Even then, Barrett and Molina are going to put up similar AVG numbers, and Barrett's going to do so by hitting significantly more extra bases and getting on base more often.

 

I'm not saying Molina is a terrible player, and I'm not completely against the idea of trading Barrett to upgrade elsewhere while signing someone like Molina. But Barrett and Molina aren't similar offensively, Barrett is easily superior in that aspect.

[erik316wttn]

Goodbye, Nomar. We hardly knew ye.

[frostwyrm]

I like Nomar, but the Dodgers may set the record this year for most player days on the DL. I wonder how all that stretching at 1B is going to go over.

 

Agreed. I think Nomar should be playing LF if anything. How is he going to make those stretches from 1b after a season where he completely tore up his groin?

 

Glad to see him go to the Dodgers instead of the Astros though. It would have been pretty much a guarantee that he would have killed us if he played for the Astros.

 

Does he have to stretch? McGriff never did when he was with the Cubs. He caught the ball right in front of the chest while standing stiffly upright. Karros only stretched a little. Sometimes veteran 1B's are cut quite a lot of slack for lazy defense.

[WrigleyField 22]

Choi wouldn't be a bad Lefty off the bench if we thought we could make him a LF. Otherwise he is strictly a PH and only plays 1B in blowouts or the 2 games Lee might miss throughout th season

 

If he is non-tendered, I would like the Cubs to at least lok into it.

[B]

I like Nomar, but the Dodgers may set the record this year for most player days on the DL. I wonder how all that stretching at 1B is going to go over.

 

Agreed. I think Nomar should be playing LF if anything. How is he going to make those stretches from 1b after a season where he completely tore up his groin?

 

Glad to see him go to the Dodgers instead of the Astros though. It would have been pretty much a guarantee that he would have killed us if he played for the Astros.

 

Does he have to stretch? McGriff never did when he was with the Cubs. He caught the ball right in front of the chest while standing stiffly upright. Karros only stretched a little. Sometimes veteran 1B's are cut quite a lot of slack for lazy defense.

 

I never would've thought Randall Simon could stretch, but he did. Man I would love to see him back.

[imb]

I like Nomar, but the Dodgers may set the record this year for most player days on the DL. I wonder how all that stretching at 1B is going to go over.

 

Agreed. I think Nomar should be playing LF if anything. How is he going to make those stretches from 1b after a season where he completely tore up his groin?

 

Glad to see him go to the Dodgers instead of the Astros though. It would have been pretty much a guarantee that he would have killed us if he played for the Astros.

 

Does he have to stretch? McGriff never did when he was with the Cubs. He caught the ball right in front of the chest while standing stiffly upright. Karros only stretched a little. Sometimes veteran 1B's are cut quite a lot of slack for lazy defense.

 

I never would've thought Randall Simon could stretch, but he did. Man I would love to see him back.

 

wasnt he so bad in 2004 that he couldnt even get a deal for 2005?

[B]

I like Nomar, but the Dodgers may set the record this year for most player days on the DL. I wonder how all that stretching at 1B is going to go over.

 

Agreed. I think Nomar should be playing LF if anything. How is he going to make those stretches from 1b after a season where he completely tore up his groin?

 

Glad to see him go to the Dodgers instead of the Astros though. It would have been pretty much a guarantee that he would have killed us if he played for the Astros.

 

Does he have to stretch? McGriff never did when he was with the Cubs. He caught the ball right in front of the chest while standing stiffly upright. Karros only stretched a little. Sometimes veteran 1B's are cut quite a lot of slack for lazy defense.

 

I never would've thought Randall Simon could stretch, but he did. Man I would love to see him back.

 

wasnt he so bad in 2004 that he couldnt even get a deal for 2005?

 

I guarantee you he can hit better than Macias did last year, or any of our pinch hitters for that matter.

[imb]

I like Nomar, but the Dodgers may set the record this year for most player days on the DL. I wonder how all that stretching at 1B is going to go over.

 

Agreed. I think Nomar should be playing LF if anything. How is he going to make those stretches from 1b after a season where he completely tore up his groin?

 

Glad to see him go to the Dodgers instead of the Astros though. It would have been pretty much a guarantee that he would have killed us if he played for the Astros.

 

Does he have to stretch? McGriff never did when he was with the Cubs. He caught the ball right in front of the chest while standing stiffly upright. Karros only stretched a little. Sometimes veteran 1B's are cut quite a lot of slack for lazy defense.

 

I never would've thought Randall Simon could stretch, but he did. Man I would love to see him back.

 

wasnt he so bad in 2004 that he couldnt even get a deal for 2005?

 

I guarantee you he can hit better than Macias did last year, or any of our pinch hitters for that matter.

 

really? cause he had a .404 ops in 2004

[Hosak8]

Using their career numbers is deceiving because of the age gap and the fact that Barrett is a markedly better hitter than earlier in his career. The power is not basically even. Barrett's consistently has been around a .200 since he's been a Cub, which are much closer to what he's likely to do going forward. The highest IsoP Molina has ever had is around .160, and for his career, which doesn't have nearly the variance as Barrett's does, it's .120.

 

As far as average goes, without sidetracking into a philosophical discussion, I'll disagree that average is more important than OBP or even SLG, no matter the spot in the order. Even then, Barrett and Molina are going to put up similar AVG numbers, and Barrett's going to do so by hitting significantly more extra bases and getting on base more often.

 

I'm not saying Molina is a terrible player, and I'm not completely against the idea of trading Barrett to upgrade elsewhere while signing someone like Molina. But Barrett and Molina aren't similar offensively, Barrett is easily superior in that aspect.

 

I'm sorry... I just think your assessment that Molina is a "huge" downgrade offensively is in accurate. Fine, you want to suggest that OPS (essentially) is the most important stat for a player in the 7 or 8 hole? Okay. Let's look at the past two seasons and see how each player did, respectively in that spot...

 

Molina: 2005: 1.136 OPS in the 7 hole, .867 in the 8 hole

2004: .723 OPS in the 7 hole, .782 in the 8 hole.

 

Barrett: 2005: .498 in the 7 hole, .727 in the 8 hole.

2004: .916 in the 7 hole, .802 in the 8 hole.

 

How is Barrett a significant upgrade? He isn't, in my opinion.

 

Now, let's consider situational OPS. We'll take Molina's last 3 years and average them, and we'll only take Barrett's last two, since 3 seasons ago he was in Montreal. You suggested that Barrett is a better offensive player now than then, so we'll take Montreal out of the equation. Let's look at OPS W/RISP and OPS W/RISP & 2 outs... or "clutch" situations...

 

Molina: .875 OPS W/RISP .936 OPS W/RISP & 2 outs

Barrett: .843 OPS W/RISP .743 OPS W/RISP & 2 outs

 

In those situations, Molina IS significantly better than Barrett. Now, I realize that I have taken a somewhat subjective look at those numbers, and that Molina looks much better than Barrett. I don't believe that he is. I just don't believe that Barrett is "significantly" better offensively than Molina. ANd, once again, when you throw in the defensive side of the postion (which is more important a measure for a catcher, imo) I'd take Molina. I like Barrett, but I'd take Molina, Lowe and Drew over Barrett, Williams, and Jacque Jones.

[treebird]

Using their career numbers is deceiving because of the age gap and the fact that Barrett is a markedly better hitter than earlier in his career. The power is not basically even. Barrett's consistently has been around a .200 since he's been a Cub, which are much closer to what he's likely to do going forward. The highest IsoP Molina has ever had is around .160, and for his career, which doesn't have nearly the variance as Barrett's does, it's .120.

 

As far as average goes, without sidetracking into a philosophical discussion, I'll disagree that average is more important than OBP or even SLG, no matter the spot in the order. Even then, Barrett and Molina are going to put up similar AVG numbers, and Barrett's going to do so by hitting significantly more extra bases and getting on base more often.

 

I'm not saying Molina is a terrible player, and I'm not completely against the idea of trading Barrett to upgrade elsewhere while signing someone like Molina. But Barrett and Molina aren't similar offensively, Barrett is easily superior in that aspect.

 

I'm sorry... I just think your assessment that Molina is a "huge" downgrade offensively is in accurate. Fine, you want to suggest that OPS (essentially) is the most important stat for a player in the 7 or 8 hole? Okay. Let's look at the past two seasons and see how each player did, respectively in that spot...

 

Molina: 2005: 1.136 OPS in the 7 hole, .867 in the 8 hole

2004: .723 OPS in the 7 hole, .782 in the 8 hole.

 

Barrett: 2005: .498 in the 7 hole, .727 in the 8 hole.

2004: .916 in the 7 hole, .802 in the 8 hole.

 

How is Barrett a significant upgrade? He isn't, in my opinion.

 

Now, let's consider situational OPS. We'll take Molina's last 3 years and average them, and we'll only take Barrett's last two, since 3 seasons ago he was in Montreal. You suggested that Barrett is a better offensive player now than then, so we'll take Montreal out of the equation. Let's look at OPS W/RISP and OPS W/RISP & 2 outs... or "clutch" situations...

 

Molina: .875 OPS W/RISP .936 OPS W/RISP & 2 outs

Barrett: .843 OPS W/RISP .743 OPS W/RISP & 2 outs

 

In those situations, Molina IS significantly better than Barrett. Now, I realize that I have taken a somewhat subjective look at those numbers, and that Molina looks much better than Barrett. I don't believe that he is. I just don't believe that Barrett is "significantly" better offensively than Molina. ANd, once again, when you throw in the defensive side of the postion (which is more important a measure for a catcher, imo) I'd take Molina. I like Barrett, but I'd take Molina, Lowe and Drew over Barrett, Williams, and Jacque Jones.

 

is there a reason why we decided it was a good idea to use horrible stats here?

[abuck1220]

 

Now, I realize that I have taken a somewhat subjective look at those numbers,

 

ya think?

 

you should be hendry's PR man when it's time to come up w/ stats to make jacque jones' three year deal look good.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Back on topic....Dodgers are sure turning things around in a hurry. With the NL West the weakest of the three NL divisions, they look to be runaway favorites for 2006. Mueller, Furcal, Kent and Nomar is a lot of offense right there. Drew, Lofton, Cruz, Werth. Gagne will be back this year. All they need is some starting pitching, and try to avoid the injuries with guys like Drew and Nomar, and look out.

[Guest]

Molina: 2005: 1.136 OPS in the 7 hole, .867 in the 8 hole

2004: .723 OPS in the 7 hole, .782 in the 8 hole.

 

Barrett: 2005: .498 in the 7 hole, .727 in the 8 hole.

2004: .916 in the 7 hole, .802 in the 8 hole.

 

How is Barrett a significant upgrade? He isn't, in my opinion.

 

Now, let's consider situational OPS. We'll take Molina's last 3 years and average them, and we'll only take Barrett's last two, since 3 seasons ago he was in Montreal. You suggested that Barrett is a better offensive player now than then, so we'll take Montreal out of the equation. Let's look at OPS W/RISP and OPS W/RISP & 2 outs... or "clutch" situations...

 

Molina: .875 OPS W/RISP .936 OPS W/RISP & 2 outs

Barrett: .843 OPS W/RISP .743 OPS W/RISP & 2 outs

Due to sample size and persistence issues those numbers have essentially no value for predicting future performance. Molina and Barrett are similar in that they both struggled early in their careers but have come on strong in the past 2-3 years. Over the past couple seasons, however, Barrett has clearly been the superior hitter. That, coupled with the age difference, is ample reason to conclude that Michael will likely be the better catcher of the two over the next few years.