SeldomSeen

Because Buddy Bell and Jeff Torborg really want Cub fans to like Juan Pierre. I will not use the eye roll smiley, even when appropriate.

The Apostles: John Peter and Matthew.

I don't recall there ever being a Hill/Dunn trade being discussed. I do recall a comment from Bruce Miles that Hendry valued Hill so much, that he wouldn't trade him for Dunn, but that's all I recall. Refresh my memory on the proposed Dunn trade that would have included Rich Hill. That was last year. Hill is no longer an untouchable. Music to my ears. Any chance that means he might be heading to Baltimore? There's always a chance. They're so early in the process right now, but as I wrote today, I think all the old presumptions are out the window. Would this include Pie, as well???

GO HOOSIERS!!!

It's not his alleged altercations that bother me, it's that he appears to be soooo unstable. Buyer beware. He's an intelligent loner with a chip on his shoulder. You have to admire that spirit, even if it isn't always channeled in the right direction. Wow, you should go in to politics (if you're not already). That's quite a spin.:P I'm not ruling the guy out altogether, but I'd look a lot harder at other targets first at this point.

I was an advocate for Bradley earlier, but this article definitely gives me pause. I didn't realize just how big that chip on this shoulder is. It's not his alleged altercations that bother me, it's that he appears to be soooo unstable. Buyer beware.

"So you're sayin' there's a chance!!!"

:stick: I'm just saying maybe the rhetoric and sarcasm aren't needed at all. If our arguments are sound, they really don't add anything. Other than that, I don't really know what else to say.

How does intolerance rule? Has anyone ever told you that you could not post a traditional metric for players here? While by sheer numbers of posters, you may be outnumbered...but that isn't intolerance. In fact, more than one poster has asked for your opinion or at least for you to clarify it or support it. That also isn't intolerant. Are we intolerant because we will disect your view? No. Are you not allowed to disect ours? Surely. This is an exchange of ideas. Whether wittingly or not, when you bow out of a discussion, the message it sends is that your arguments could not stand up under scrutiny. Please share your ideas. Will they be attacked, likely. But you never know...someone might be convinced. If you don't share them, then by all means, don't be surprised when no one is. Surely don't try to claim some martrydom of intolerance. Intolerance would be telling you that your ideas aren't welcome here and that surely has never happened. I don't think that it does at all, Vance. I think he knows he's kicking a dead horse, and that those numbers are not valued as highly by many posters here. He also pointed out that he has made these points elswhere. While I think I'm pretty balanced when it comes to traditional metrics vs. the newer ones, I can see where an "old school" guy would feel that there is, indeed, a level of intolerance on this board. As soon as he made his post, there were at least 5 sarcastic responses (I stopped counting). If we are as progressive as we'd like to think we are, a level of open-mindedness should follow, imo. There's more than one way to skin a cat (or a possum/ armadillo as they'd say in your neck of the woods :wink: ).

Not to pick on you personally, but I've seen this sentiment expressed a few times here. How can you say this as if it is fact? I agree that it was a steep price, but how do you know, really, what those guys are worth to other teams? Why would Hendry take his time working on deals with multiple teams, and then not get the most value possible? I know he's had a man crush on Pierre for a while, but I really don't think he overpaid at this point- assuming we didn't trade another Dontrelle here.

Neifi and Rubby. It's amazing that parents can fail this miserably at naming children. Twice.

I'd kill to be in your shoes right now, BTW. You still have money to spend and you've signed Pierre, Howry, and Eyre and re-signed Perez and Rusch. We've signed a backup catcher in Bennett and a backup utility guy in Cruz. Rumor has it we also have only 10 mil left to sign a 2nd baseman, LF, RF, and a fully retooled bullpen. Cry me a river. Wow, and all those great and wonderful deals make me shiver with joy and happiness. Not. I haven't liked *any* of these deals. Rusch and Perez are terribly overpaid and will likely block young, cheap guys like Williams and Cedeno. Signing Neifi is never a good move in my eyes. Howry and Eyre are overrated and also overpaid, though I'll admit the Eyre deal is tolerable. Pierre is certainly an upgrade over the CF disaster from last year, but guys like Bradley and Wilkerson -- who are clearly better players -- were/are available. The obsession for a proto-typical lead-off hitter is ridiculous. Here's my simple philosophy for baseball player acquisition: get the best players you can for each position. Worry about the line-up later. Spend your money wisely by maximizing your upgrades. Use cheap players who will likely equal or or exceed the production of free agents. Hence my support for blowing Giles away with a "ridiculous" money proposal, and why I think the Cubs should dump Neifi with Luca Brazzi and just play Cedeno, and why I think Wilkerson or Bradley would be a better choice than Pierre. Umm, buzzkill??? *awkward silence*

Let's just hope he stays in Washington.

Lowe and Nixon? I KNOW we can match that. Pie + Williams + Welly/other of the million minor league arms we have. Yeah I couldn't believe what I read. Plus Pie/Williams/Welly are going to be cheaper for a few more years thus freeing up money for an additional pitcher for the Phils. Was it just me or did the RedSox really upgrade their OF in such a deal? Abreu and Drew? Sure, that's a fair deal.:^o

Where's the "wet yourself" emoticon???

Is this really all Abreuis worth to the Phils?

It's said often, but really this time: Best Thread Ever!

I'm a little late to the party, but I thought I'd add my 2 cents to the conversation- I'm sure you were all eagerly awaiting this moment. He's a clear upgrade at the leadoff spot, and he won't kill us with his defense in center. It took a little more than I expected to get him, but the Marlins have done well on all of their sales- I mean trades- so no real shock, I guess. If we had to give up 3 arms, we could certainly have done worse. All of these guys seem to have a comparable replacement just behind them in the system, and it's not likely there would have been room for all of them. It's nice to see one more need checked off the list so that the primary focus can be RF. Hendry has succeeded in following plan, addressing real needs on this team. It may not be the plan I would've followed (nor many of the posters here), but after the Neifi/ Middle relief brainfart, it's good to be back on course. Juan Pierre looks like a little kid, and hey- little kids are easy to cheer for. Until further notice he is my new favorite Cub. My 5 year old daughter says so. The real downside to this deal is that I can't get the stupid phrase, "wiggly feel" out of my head. Get a LH RF with pop, and we may be on to something.

I'm trying my best to give JH the benefit of the doubt here. I've been mostly optimistic open minded to this point, but it looks a lot like he's planting the seeds now for his excuses on Friday for not doing squat.

They give some, we give some. Details, details...

Bowden loves Patterson, right? Send the him to the Nats, the Nats & Cubs send prospects to the Marlins, and the Marlins send Pierre to the Cubs. He's not great, but he's worth Corey Patterson, imo. It's not the deal I'd do, but if Hendry is hell-bent on Pierre, this is the most palatable.

I agree, and it's really too bad that Javier Vasquez won't go to Philly. The D'backs would be a pretty good trade partner, I think.

Exactly, K's are bad in that they make performing well and repeating that performance more difficult. If you show you can do that, they aren't a huge deal. There's the rub. And you just made me break that rule about not discussing Kearns anymore.

I'm going to say this once, and then resist discussing it from here on out, but please say no to Austin Kearns. Can someone explain the difference between Kearns and Burnitz, besides age and what side of the plate they swing from? They're both .260ish/ .820 ops hitters who strike out a lot. Burnitz slugs better, Kearns gets on a little better. Unless he's flipped somewhere else for a bigger fish, I want no part of Austin Kearns. [/rant]

Oh, and the deed is done. Thanks for not keeping us up too late.:D