SeldomSeen

I wonder what it was wondering about (while wandering :D ).

Tiger Bait! Tiger Bait!

1. Felix Pie +10 +10 2. Rich Hill +10 +6 3. Mark Pawelek +10 +8 4. Ronnie Cedeno +10 +8 5. Renyel Pinto 6. Sean Gallagher 7. Ryan Harvey +10 +8 8. Sean Marshall +10 +7 9. Ricky Nolasco +10 +7 10. Angel Guzman +10 +3 137

So you're implying I'm stupid? Well I'm not implying you want it, but you'll never earn my respect saying stuff like that. People will disagree with you pretty much every day in the workplace, etc., you better get used to it. I'm not implying anything. It is a general statement. You made it pretty clear that you are not interested in looking at the statistical side of baseball. I find that attitude to be ignorant in many respects. It's like the caveman throwing a fit b/c the round wheel wasn't what he used before. Stick with that square wheel. I'm not attacking you. I'm disagreeing with your approach. You can get all bent out of shape about it, but that doesn't help advance your idea. Where have you attempted to argue, with actual evidence, against the use of stats? No where that i've seen. You just throw out unsubstantiated opinions and get mad when people don't agree. I still think you owe me an apology, but whatever. I do care about stats, I've said in a few other threads I find great importance in OBP. Another stat I think isn't used enough is WHIP for pitching. I guess my point isn't that VORP or whatever isn't useful, I highly doubt any GM in professional baseball uses it to weigh making a deal. It's a fun hobby, and predicting transactions is what this forum is for, but I don't think it ever carries over to the real world. I really cant even see Theo sitting at his desk musing "Hmm, let's go with Player A due to his filthy VORP rating." JP Riccardi and Beane use VORP (they probably use their own in house stats with greater reliability). Actually Theo was a stats guy, although he didn't just dismiss scouts' opinions like Beane does, who is completely a numbers guy. Stats do carry over into the real world. how is it that stats can be used in just about every aspect of life with great effect (realizing that they do have limitations) but can't find traction in baseball? the good ol' boys don't like it. i have yet to see a convincing argument as to why stats shouldn't be used that doesn't boil down to "this is the way we've always done it and it works fine." at the very least they should be used to complement the old school approach to baseball. Absolutely the truth, but to color everyone who doesn't live and breathe VORP an ignorant caveman is counterproductive to your argument. Often, the stats guys appear to be fighting a holy war, or trying to prove themselves right moreso than trying to improve baseball teams. Just my 2 cents.

Weird. They did that to me last year.

(Really) rough estimate: Bench: Blanco $1.50 Hairston $2.00 Perez $2.50 ??? ??? Infield: Cedeno $0.30 Ramirez $10.50 Lee $8.70 Barrett $4.00 Walker $2.50 Outfield: Murton $0.30 Patterson $3.00 ??? Pen: Dempster $5.00 Willamson $2.00 Wuertz $0.33 Ohman $0.33 Novoa $0.33 Eyre $3.60 Howry $4.00 Starters Prior $3.50 Zambrano $5.00 Wood $12.50 Maddux $9.00 Rusch $2.50 Williams $1.00 Total $85.39 Premium Regular

The Marlins just traded for their SS (Ramirez). Cedeno and Walker would be redundant. I think they'd be more interested in arms anyway.

Yeah, I know that sounded weird. My point is that I agree with you to an extent. But you can go from early to late really quickly in the hot stove. Oh, I agree. I'm just glad to see something resembling a plan being worked. The big bats are still there outside of Delgado, but he wouldn't fill a need anyway.

So you're saying I'm wrong.:lol: "Man, it gets late early around here."

Now that it appears to be done, I'm coming around on these signings. Say what you will about the $$$, Hendry is addressing needs and it is still really early. I wonder if there were specific time-frame goals set, such as Thanksgiving, winter meetings, etc. I'd imagine there is a feeling of momentum going into the winter meetings being able to focus on leadoff and OF at this point. I think the tone was set by getting Dempster done early and that has carried over to the rest of the bullpen. As long as the $ given out so far doesn't restrict the acquisition of a big bat I think we all may be pretty pleased with this offseason in the end. No JJ, JB, or JE comments please. I'm trying to be positive.

Could we please just stop mentioning The One Who Played RF? My recovery is tenuous at best right now- step 1 or 2 of 12- and I'm not sure I'm going to make it if we keep his name around here. In fact, I move that this thread be deleted and we'll move on like nothing ever happened. :-$ I appreciate your support.

Welcome to the forum!

My first thought as well. I'll throw in the Sox. "Yes, Len, the former Sox is really struggling at the plate today," or "He was a Bull, now a Magic?" I really hate that.

Who's Howry?

I am not at all high on Huff. If we thought Sosa was bad defensively in RF, Huff makes Sosa look like Andruw Jones. I don't see the Cubs getting a big bat for RF, at least not this yr, even tho it is a weakness. I know this is going to anger some people but, if the Cubs can land Furcal (or Lugo) and/or Pierre, I could definately see the Cubs bring back Burnitz for another yr. I don't think I like you anymore.:P

You don't become a professional athlete without a competitive ego. No, I wouldn't be happy about "job security" and a "huge raise" that came along with a demotion. I also wouldn't want to spend 8 months with a guy who was told to do just that. You play to compete and win, the money is a secondary issue. Right, money is secondary. If Dempster would turn into a problem child if the Cubs acquired a far better reliever and gave that guy the closer's role, then Dempster is a bigger clubhouse cancer than any of the victim's of the great chemistry experiment of 2004. We just differ on how we'd deal with the people involved, not necessarily on how we'd build the team. I'm all for signing the best guy available for any given position, but if Dempster was signed as the closer, and that was part of the negotiations, once he's signed I'm no longer looking for a closer. It looks like Hendry is following this "checklist" type of offseason, and looking to fill other perceived holes. Whether or not Dempster was the best option is another debate for an earlier time. Also, I'm not saying some guys don't eventually get to the point of playing for paychecks, but that's not what got them to the major leagues. The best guys want to win, be it in golf, ping pong, or celebrity bowling tournaments.:wink:

You don't become a professional athlete without a competitive ego. No, I wouldn't be happy about "job security" and a "huge raise" that came along with a demotion. I also wouldn't want to spend 8 months with a guy who was told to do just that. You play to compete and win, the money is a secondary issue.

Not really. The pitching was near the top of the league. Certainly good enough to make for a 90+ win season. The offense was mediocre. That's the reason they failed to win 90 wins. You can't really snicker at a top 3 pitching staff, or expect much more. You can expect more than a 9th ranked scoring offense, especially when you have a top payroll. Let me preface this by pointing out that I am and have been in favor of signing Giles or another big bat for RF. The pitching as a whole was near the top of the league in 2003. The starting pitching skewed those stats, though, in spite of a pretty poor pen. The Cubs ranked 9th in the NL that year in holds, and 12th in saves (say what you will about the importance of this stat) with only 36 conversions in 51 opportunities. Clearly, there was room for improvement (hindsight being 20/20). This is not to say that they should forgo pursuing a bat to improve the offense, but there have been consistent holes with this team for several years: with leadoff, SS, and the pen the major ones. I see Hendry's approach this year as methodical rather than haphazard or random. He's shoring up the pen now, while those guys are still available, and he'll move on the rest later, as they are more likely to take their time deciding where to sign. Another quick point- this rotation is built around guys who can be dominant for 8 innings, or effectively wild for 5 2/3. The more effective options the better, I say.

LOL, now Damon is better than Rickey Henderson. Scott Boras is a twit.

Wilmont came back strong from suspension. It will be interesting to see how Davis gets minutes for Wilmont, Strickland, Suhr (who's been playing well), Ratliff, Vaden, Monroe and Calloway for 3 spots. The key so far for the Hoosiers offense is making the extra pass. Way too many turnovers tonight, but on 75 baskets this year, they have 55 assists. They are making the extra pass this year and not relying on bringing the ball up and getting it to Bracey for an off balance, fading, 17- footer over two guys. Fixed that for ya.

Not great competition, but another good win for the Hoosiers. Looks like Marshall Strickland is taking full advantge of being moved off the ball. If he is going to continue to shoot well, this could be a top 10 team before all is said and done. I like seeing these guys finally open it up a little and run. My one complaint about the Davis era has been the lack of offensive continuity. Now that he has the athletes, it looks like they're far more up-tempo. If DJ and Ratliff come back healthy, they're plenty deep, too.

I "half-heard" the ESPN report, and asked the same question in the "Torre wanted Eyre" thread. I don't think it was reported that he already signed, though.

I was thinking Dotel when I read Howry in a post above as I was typing that. IF Hendry goes after another reliever, Dotel's who I'd like to see him target. Honestly, I think we have enough to form a good bullpen without giving up another draft pick. Did anyone hear Gammons' report on the Sox/Marlins tonight on ESPN radio? He mentioned the market for relievers, and that Eyre was getting $11M from the Cubs, and then I thought I heard him say that Howry was getting $12M from the Cubs. I'm not absolutely positive since there were people in my office, but that's what it sounded like. Anyone???

The latest ESPN radio update quoted Gammons as saying that the Red Sox have moved ahead of the Rangers in the Beckett sweeps. They have allegedly included Hanley Ramirez and a top pitching prospect. Take it for what it's worth.

I'm starting to think it will be Cedeno/Neifi and Soriano in the middle IF, with Pierre in CF and Encarnacion/Jones/etc. in RF. It works $$wise, and these are guys Hendry has always liked. Pierre Murton (yeah, right- Neifi) Lee Ramirez Soriano RF Barrett Neifi (Murton) Not much of an improvement, if any.