CuseCubFan69

Why would the Cubs do a Nix for Patterson trade?

Thanks Diffusion. Since he cleared waivers he is still the Cubs property correct?

Good post craig but everytime I see a player is learning to throw a change I just see him having it hit 450 feet and saying the heck with that If I'm going to get beat it's going to be with my good stuff not this. True. There are very few pitchers who throw a good change, and it's not easy to learn or control or throw with the same motion as your fastball and curve. For every prospect that BA writes up as "needs to develop a changeup to act as a 3rd pitch...", there is only a tiny fraction that ever do. The odds that Hill is going to show up this spring or in August with a plus-plus change is pretty poor. Still, the reports on his change in spring were pretty favorable at the time. There were days when it was working pretty well. So I don't think it's a total reach for that to become a usable pitch. And I don't think he's all-or-nothing dependent on it. If he can throw his fastball for strikes without giving up a million HR's, I don't think he has to have a functional change to be an effective pitcher. He needs the change to be good, and for his normal fastball to be both faster and better controlled than his last two Cub starts before getting sent down, if he wants to become an all-star. Likely, no. But that's the kind of improbable thing that happens for guys who end up becoming all-stars. Seems to me the view is that if he's strictly a curveball/fastball guy, teams will just sit on fastball. Hard to throw three curveballs for strikes, so the hitter can sit and wait for fastball, then knock it. It's exactly in that sort of hitter strategy where a changeup might be pretty effective even if it isn't all that special. If hitter is thinking whack fastball, take curve, and he sees a pitch coming from hand that doesn't look like curveball, he may go into hit-fastball mode. But if it's a change, he may not be able to hold up. So I'm hoping that with Hill's particular repertoire, it won't take an especially high-quality change to have a useful effect. Craig....nobody loves a good changeup more than I do. I agree with you 100 percent that adding the changeup and throwing it for strikes would help Hill go to the next level. I just wish he learned how to do it when he was dominating hitters instead of learning it against more accomplished hitters.

Does anyone know what happened to Greenburg yet?

I always thought that Weaver would make a very good closer. I think he'd be a very reliable 4th starter for us. I agree. The way this crazy market has been going who knows how much he could get. I think that since the general consensus on him was that he was overrated, you could get him on the cheap, and he's probably better than Millwood is. Give Mr. Hendry a call then!

He throws right handed NUN.

I always thought that Weaver would make a very good closer. I think he'd be a very reliable 4th starter for us. I agree. The way this crazy market has been going who knows how much he could get.

Good post craig but everytime I see a player is learning to throw a change I just see him having it hit 450 feet and saying the heck with that If I'm going to get beat it's going to be with my good stuff not this.

I always thought that Weaver would make a very good closer.

Imagine Tejada and Bradley? That would make up for Bradleys lack of power and he could bat second unless they did keep Walker. Pierre Walker Lee Tejada Ramirez Bradley Murton Barrett

Exactly. Like it or not, a SS with an .840 OPS is more valuable than an OF 100 points higher. That's the way the market works. Supply and demand. That being said, I'm on the fence on trading Williams, Pie, Hill and Cedeno for him. Funny, if the Cubs still had Pinto and Nolasco, that decision isn't as hard. I probably wouldn't trade that much though. IMO that Pierre trade hurt the chances of getting a true impact bat in right. Or short. :D

Are you reading this thread at all? IMO he's in shock that Walker is even being compared to Tejada. Walkers a nice player and underappreciated but I have Tejada in the same class a Abreu and Dunn and Walker is far below that IMO. I see the numbers that have been thrown out there and having a 300/35 HR guy at SS is a luxury I would like the Cubs to have. We just differ on how we would make this team better in this case. Tejada isn't even close to Abreu and Dunn. Both those guys are consistently over a 900 OPS, Abreu 1000. Tejada in his best year in his prime couldn't get to 900. I consider defense too CPatt...not just hitting. Tejada is an average defender, maybe even slightly below average. Really....are you sure? I know that Dunn is horrible in left and Abreu is average in right.

Are you reading this thread at all? IMO he's in shock that Walker is even being compared to Tejada. Walkers a nice player and underappreciated but I have Tejada in the same class a Abreu and Dunn and Walker is far below that IMO. I see the numbers that have been thrown out there and having a 300/35 HR guy at SS is a luxury I would like the Cubs to have. We just differ on how we would make this team better in this case. Tejada isn't even close to Abreu and Dunn. Both those guys are consistently over a 900 OPS, Abreu 1000. Tejada in his best year in his prime couldn't get to 900. I consider defense too CPatt...not just hitting.

Because he isn't really that great of an offensive player. We got slightly less production from Walker last year that we would probably get from Tejada this year. Just because he plays a positon were offense is scarce doesn't mean we should overpay for him, especially if it is possible to upgrade more cheaply at another position. What were his numbers last year? No way is he comparable to Walker. Tejada last year: 304/.349/.515/.864 Walker last year: .305/.355/.474/.829 Try RBI's and HR's. Selective use of numbers is meaningless. NO ONE in baseball would try to equate Todd Walker being the equal to Tejada. seriously...post of the day. you say, 'try rbi's and hr's.' then the VERY NEXT SENTENCE you say selective use of numbers is meaningless. was it hard to type that w/ a straight face? Don't you feel all numbers are important? how can you compare RBI totals as they bat in different spots in the lineup? HR? fine. There's a reason why Miggy hits 3rd or 4th, he produces.

Tejada isn't even close to that class. That's because I value SS's more than you do.

Are you reading this thread at all? IMO he's in shock that Walker is even being compared to Tejada. Walkers a nice player and underappreciated but I have Tejada in the same class a Abreu and Dunn and Walker is far below that IMO. I see the numbers that have been thrown out there and having a 300/35 HR guy at SS is a luxury I would like the Cubs to have. We just differ on how we would make this team better in this case.

Not as big as a previous RF that played in Chicago.

Because he isn't really that great of an offensive player. We got slightly less production from Walker last year that we would probably get from Tejada this year. Just because he plays a positon were offense is scarce doesn't mean we should overpay for him, especially if it is possible to upgrade more cheaply at another position. What were his numbers last year? No way is he comparable to Walker. Tejada last year: 304/.349/.515/.864 Walker last year: .305/.355/.474/.829 Try RBI's and HR's. Selective use of numbers is meaningless. NO ONE in baseball would try to equate Todd Walker being the equal to Tejada. i can guarantee that if walker played a full season batting third he would have 100 rbis and 20 home runs. home runs aren't everything, their SLG should tell you that Why is it that Walker never hits 3rd then if he is that good? Is every manager a moron in MLB? Why does Walker get bounced around so much? People we are going to have to agree to disagree on this because no way is Walker in Tejada class in any way.

Because he isn't really that great of an offensive player. We got slightly less production from Walker last year that we would probably get from Tejada this year. Just because he plays a positon were offense is scarce doesn't mean we should overpay for him, especially if it is possible to upgrade more cheaply at another position. What were his numbers last year? No way is he comparable to Walker. His line last year was .305/.349/.515. His OBP was worse than Walker's by a bit, and his power was significantly, but not immensely, higher. I'd say that saying Tejada was slightly better than Walker isn't too far off base. In any case, a player with a .864 OPS probably isn't worth three or four good prospects, especially if that player is turning 30 and has a large contract. Unless you include fielding as part of the game. Let me also add he shows up for work everyday unlike the often hurt Walker.

Because he isn't really that great of an offensive player. We got slightly less production from Walker last year that we would probably get from Tejada this year. Just because he plays a positon were offense is scarce doesn't mean we should overpay for him, especially if it is possible to upgrade more cheaply at another position. What were his numbers last year? No way is he comparable to Walker. I was just surprised to see that Tejada has never had an OPS over .900. HIs OPS last year was .864. My point is this: Tejada and Mench > Cedeno and Abreu

Because he isn't really that great of an offensive player. We got slightly less production from Walker last year that we would probably get from Tejada this year. Just because he plays a positon were offense is scarce doesn't mean we should overpay for him, especially if it is possible to upgrade more cheaply at another position. What were his numbers last year? No way is he comparable to Walker.

I'd see what Boston wants for Lowell. We didn't offer Nomar arbitration, so he won't be back. I know....that's why I suggested Lowell. :D Of course Boston is going to be all over this. If they are involved in any deal for Miggy, they will be the ones getting him. I just wrote that in the "I like what Boston is doing" thread. Imagine Tejada for Manny?

Oh my.....what if Boston and Baltimore trade Tejada for Manny?

No way. We'd cripple ourselves. In what way? Cedeno isn't going to play SS and he doesn't have the bat for second IMO. Pierre is going to sign a 3 or 4 year deal with the Cubs so that gets rid of Pie. The pitchers would hurt but they might be gone for a Dunn or Abreu anyway so why not get a bat that covers a postion that most teams don't have one? We still need a RF, and there aren't any good ones out there. What do we have left to trade at this point? After the Pierre trade and this, there's nothing even remotely close to Major League ready that's of any worth. It also rids you of any rotation depth you have. Now you're looking at Prior, Z, Wood, Maddux, Rusch, and Wellemeyer is the only starter that could step in unless you're JC. We've already dealt the top two AA arms, so Ryu, who isn't a great prospect is the best player that's closest to the bigs. Making that deal you settle SS, but you no longer have any trading chips to improve the team, and the only thing you get is a 30 year old average defensive SS that'll hit .350/.500 at 12.5 million per for 4 years. Terrible idea for the short and long-term. If there aren't any good RF, why not get a SS who produces like a RF? Then you can afford to go after one of those not so good RF. In Free Agency there isn't, and Tejada isn't a great hitter compared to other OF's. Tejada is a good player, don't get me wrong, but he's leaving his prime, has a hefty but manageable contract, and doesn't produce enough to justify selling the farm to acquire. He's 2 years younger than Abreu and plays a more important postion IMO and does it well. Why isn't he worth 3 or 4 prospects?

I'd see what Boston wants for Lowell. We didn't offer Nomar arbitration, so he won't be back. I know....that's why I suggested Lowell. :D