Rcal10
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If the Cubs trade Alcantara it is because he is really wanted by another team and the Cubs are getting someone they really want. It will not be because the Cubs have to move him because they don’t think they will have room for him on the major league roster in two years. Too much can happen year to year to earmark a guy as strictly someone they will trade because he won’t have a position. If he is good and worth starting in the majors and the Cubs value him, they will find a spot for him.
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I think it is way to early to suggest a high end prospect won’t have a position to fill in the team in 2 years. So much can happen I can’t say his chances are slim to debut as a Cub. Maybe he is traded because there is a demand for him. But I doubt he is traded because the Cubs don’t see a place for him in a few years.
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Boegarts contract already looks like a disaster.
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I am not sure who they will sign but I am fairly confident they will go over the first line of the luxury tax. I can see them trading for Alonso or Glasnow or signing someone like Hoskins to go along with other signing and trades. The one year guy they won’t resign in 25’ and drop back under the LT. If it is Glasnow, maybe Horton takes his spot. I am not suggesting these are the only moves. Maybe sign Bellinger and then trade PCA for a young controlled starting pitcher. Maybe trade for Soto. Maybe Ohtani. I also think they could add a FA pitcher. Or trade for a 3rd baseman. I just think it will be a very active off season and in the end they will have a team that “on paper” is the favorite to win the division. There are a lot of avenues they can take to put a serious World Series contender on the field in 24’.
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And her he won 92 games. That is pretty impressive. I agree it might not make a huge difference. I also agree at times Ross was unfairly criticized. People will be bitching about Counsel too. But to me Counsell is a better manager. So I a happy they signed him.
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I do get this. Yes, Ross was not given great options. But I do believe the brewers (Counsell and coaches) did work some magic with some of the pen arms they had. I am not crediting Counsell himself for this. I am saying it is him and coaches. I am hoping some come our way. Especially whoever teaches pitch framing. IMO that would be a start to the staff performing better. I also think, for whatever reason, Counsell got a lot out of the limited talent he was given. I do agree that we will still see the armchair managers criticizing Counsell when he makes a move that doesn’t work. I also agree Ross has that happen to him all the time. As I said, IMO, Ross was ok. They didn’t lose because of him. But I do believe Counsell is a step above for whatever reason. Plus, I feel this is a sign the Cubs will be aggressive this year and they are targeting winning in 24’.
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So what point are you trying to make? Did the Cubs make a mistake signing Counsell? Was Ross just as good. Honestly what is your point? I expect a manager (and coaches) who will get better production from his pitching staff. I expect a manager who will play some of the kids a little more. I expect the FO to be more aggressive now that Counsell is on board. My guess is we will see less bunting. I am sure there will still be second guessing, but at the end of the day, IMO, the Cubs will win a few more games with Counsell then they would have with Ross. Feel free to disagree if you want. Frankly I couldn’t care less.
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I actually give credit to Counsell AND his coaching staff. As for the front they seem to provide a lot of journeyman players who then somekne win enough games to win the division. So is that the manager and coaches or the FO. I just think he is an upgrade over Ross. Not sure why there is so much push back on that statement. How many teams wanted Counsell when he became available? How many now want Ross? And, again, I didn’t hate Ross. I just think Counsell is better and he has a track record to prove it.
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Exactly. The fact is I didn’t hate Ross. I thought he was ok. But to me, for whatever reason or reasons, Counsell somehow gets better results with lesser talent. Will be nice to see if the Cubs give him actual talent and see how he does.
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How many of the guys who were under 1.4fWAR were any good anywhere else? Not like they come to the brewers with great numbers before getting there and then suck? All I am saying is, IMO, he gets the most out of a very ordinary group of players he is given. And, generally pitchers seem to thrive in Milw. Of all those pitchers with those great era’s none of them were big names prior to Milw. So they either got results from journeyman pen arms or system guys. I expect the Cubs pen will be better next year, even if they acquire journeyman arms, as they have done in the past.
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Bears hire Harbough? That would just be a positive reaction in Chicago, not the negative that is happening in Milw. But I think this is as big a deal here as that would be in football.
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Just seems to me guys get better when they come to the Breewers. McGill bounced around a bit before coming to the Brewers. Payamps took a few years to develop but he got better. Wilson had his best year with the Brewers. Milner as well. So whatever the reason the Brewers always seem to get the most from their pitchers. Maybe it isn’t coaching or pitch framing, but it is something. Not like they spend big dollars on pen arms. But somehow they get it done. Should Counsell get some credit?
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But maybe his circle of trust was larger because he gave guys chances. Of the relievers who all has era’s under 3.38 how many were home grown talent? The brewers brought guys up and he used them. If Counsell had Little, as an example, he would have used him. And how much of the pitchers success could be attributed to Counsell and his staff for having the best system in place for pitch framing. Does he and his coaching staff get any credit for that. I would say they should. Framing make those pitchers better. If he does the same here there is a chance the Cubs then have 5 or 6 guys in the pen with low 3 era’s, just like the Brewers had.
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I don’t think Counsell is worth 5 wins per season. That really wasn’t what I was saying. All I said was in order for the Cubs to gain 9 games in the standings if Counsell and Ross switched teams, Counsell would have to be 5 games better than Ross. Cubs would have 5 more wins and the brewers 5 less wins.
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I agree with a lot of what you said. However Counsell doesn’t have to be 10 wins better than Ross. If Ross is a baseline average manager and Counsell adds 5 wins to a baseline manager the same would go for rhe Brewers. If you believe Counsell adds 5 wins over an average manager that means if the Brewers had Ross managing them they would have won 5 less. 5 less wins for them and 5 more wins from the Cubs means the Cubs win the division. I am not suggesting it is that simple. I am just saying he wouldn’t have needed to add 10 wins to the Cubs. I am excited to have him because to me this means the Cubs are committed to winning in 24’. I don’t see the ins doing this unless they plan on going for it in 24’, and beyond.
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Yep, I don’t see that sort of deal for Alonso either. One thing to suggest you want that. Then there is the reality where he just isn’t Freeman. If the Cubs got him and then gave him a 5 year extension I would think he is doing very well at $115 for those 5 years. And, TBH, that might be high. But at least the years are t too bad.
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Works for me. Trade them Brown or Assad. I am fine with that. Keep Mervis, especially if Alonso is around for only 1 year.
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If they are going to have a first baseman for one year I would rather have Hoskins and still have Mervis. If they do trade Mercis for Alonso I would want Alonso for another 4 or at most, 5 years. Then I totally understand not needing Mervis. But if Alonso is only 1 year, Mervis might be the 1st baseman in 25’ and a 1B/DH in 24.
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So trade Mervis for one year of Alonso? I think I would rather keep Mervis and sign Hoskins to one year. I understand not wanting Alonso long term. But if he agreed to a 5 year deal I might be ok with that. Even if 1 or 2 are overpaid years.
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You won’t get an argument from me on Hoskins. I mentioned him about a week ago as an option and was basically told if the Cubs went with him and Mervis at 1st and DH it would be the start of a terrible off season. I do like Hoskins. But others seemed to hate the idea.
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Correct. Hoskins as their main move would be awful. Hoskins as a bounce back guy for a year along with other bigger moves, whether it be a Soto trade, a trade for a young controlled pitcher, a big free agent signing or any combination of the above, would be fine.
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But he does have say in what the payroll will be. So in years 8 thru 10 when that big FA signing from previous years sucks, as is typical in those long term deals, he still doesn’t budge on being under the LT. That is a factor in signing a guy for 10+ years. I agree Jed has to take some responsibility for the FO not giving long deals. But I also feel TR has to take some responsibility as well. I also think Jed is in charge because he shares the same beliefs as ownership. And, again, it doesn’t matter who is the reason for this way of running the team. All that matters is up until now, for whatever reason, they have not shown they are willing to give out 10 year deals.
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While I understand your position let me ask you this. If the Cubs signed Ohtani for 12 years and for 8 of then he was an elite MVP candidate and then he dropped off some his last 3 or 4 years do you consider that a bad signing? How about if they won a World Series and made the playoffs in 6 of those 8 years. Maybe went to anothe WS and went to a couple of NLCS. If him being grossly overpaid for 3 years a reason to call it a bad contract? Is he worth it if that happens even knowing they have to carry a bad contract for 3 years?
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Well…… he added a year to Nico. Not much of an extension. He did extend Happ however. And, I am holding out hope they do decide to go 10+ years if that is what it takes for Ohtani or if that is what it will take to extend Soto after trading for him.
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Doesn’t this research go against your statement? I mean, there are already not a lot of guys signing 8 to 10+ year deals. Did you not suggest in the future there will be less? I am just saying I don’t agree there will be less. I don’t see anything that would suggest that. There has never been many and in the future there won’t be many. BTW, I am not arguing if the Cubs stance is right or wrong. But I will say if they don’t go long years they aren’t going to sign the elite FA.
