Rcal10

I agreed with you all the way until the Bonilla comment. I don’t expect anything like that. But I do think whoever gets him will have a portion of their fan base very critical of the deal. The “smart spending” people will not like it.

That is my point. It might be north of $500M. I don’t think it is forgone conclusion that it will be, though. What is better, 8/$384, 10/$450 or 13/$500? He may only want to play 8 more years. No one really knows what he wants. It also could come down to how a contract is structured. I think opt out will be big in any deal he makes. I also think it won’t be all about money. So to assume it will take over $500M is not something I can do.

I think the response was sarcastic too!

Do they have to be north of $500M? I would have said that before the injury. I am not sure that is the case now. I honestly think there has already been an offer or it will come before the winter meeting. I am not sure it will be over $500M.

I wouldn’t trade him either. But if he does regress to a 3, now would be the time to get the most value from him. I don’t agree he will regress and his ceiling is a 3, however. If I thought of him as thawv does then I would agree he should be moved now.

So results don’t matter to you? The second half of 22 and all of 23 he pitched as good an anyone in baseball. His results were that of a TOR starter. Again, he has already pitched higher than the ceiling you have for him.

I underwent your POV. I also respect it and respect the discussion. And you may very well be right. I just choose to see what happens this off season. If the Cubs coaches can make a noodle arm 2nd baseman into a solid 3rd baseman, I just can’t close the book on then making Morel serviceable. But if they can’t they do need to trade him.

But you can explain that too, if you need to. They put Madrigal there because they were trying to build his trade value. Then when Morel came up, the Cubs got surprisingly solid defense at 3rd from Madrigal and they needed a bat. So they let Morel DH. He did well there so they left him there. Maybe all other 3rd baseman on the 23’ roster were better defensively then him. Maybe they didn’t want to mess with him during the year. So they played the others at third and left him as DH. I am not arguing he will be the 3rd baseman next year. I am disagreeing on the narrative that the Cubs have closed the books on him there.

And I am choosing not to make assumptions.

How can his ceiling be a #3 when he pitcher like a #1 for 1 1/2 years now?

Again, people pick what they want to make their case. Jed actually said he thought it was a good idea for him to get work at first because they already know he can play 2nd and 3rd. So that was a mention of him at 3rd. I admit, I am picking what I want to make my case. The difference is I am not saying he will play 3rd. I am just saying I do not agree the book is closed.

But it works in the trade simulator🤮

But why does it have to be DH. Why can’t he coexist with Soto or Ohtani and play 3rd. I think those who suggest he is being undervalued really are suggesting him at 3rd shouldn’t be closed. Not suggesting they aren’t getting enough in a trade for him. As I have said often, I am fine with them dealing him. They just need fair value. I haven’t seen anyone suggest he should be traded for a below average player. I don’t think anyone who wants to traded him has suggested he is not valuable. But they have closed the book on 3rd base for him. And that is what I disagree with.

I think fans create narratives and then argue as if they are facts. And then they only choose examples to make their case and leave any other options out. I think that is what has happened with Morel. Those who want to suggest Morel came up and didn’t play 3rd are not wrong. That did happen. It is when we get into reasons why he didn’t that we start assuming. My version of assuming goes like this. In spring, maybe the Cubs wanted to boost Madrigal’s stock so they played him at 3rd. They send Morel down and let him play 3rd in the minors. Then, when they brought Morel up they had options at 3rd. He was hitting at DH so they left him there. Maybe, had DH been filled by someone I hope fills it this year, Morel would have played 3rd. People want to point to the Cubs agreeing to let Morel play 1st in the DR. They say that is a sign they are still looking for position for him. They use Jed’s words when he says it is good for him to get exposure there too. But they leave out Jed also saying “we know he can play 2nd and 3rd” because that doesn’t fit their narrative. While I agree the Cubs may have some concerns about Morel at 3rd and I even agree it isn’t his best position. I don’t agree the Cubs have closed the book on that idea. I also think that if the Cubs did get a stud DH they wouldn’t necessarily have to trade Morel. If DH isn’t an option they just might put him at 3rd and take uneven play there. All that said, for the right deal(controlled starting pitcher-MOR) I can see him traded. I just don’t think he has to be.

I do understand using Morel as a trade chip IF they get quality back. But I don’t rule him out as the 3rd baseman to start the year. Sure, 180 innings in the majors hasn’t been great. That amounts to 20 games. I am not willing to write him off as a 3rd baseman after 20 games. All we need to do is look at Wisdom. He was decent one year and sucked the next. Maybe we are seeing Morel at his worst. Maybe with work this spring he could be adequate. Even slightly below adequate isn’t awful if he hits. If they don’t get real value for him I would be perfectly fine with him on the team and at 3rd base. Maybe he can’t do it. Maybe that is why they didn’t put him there last year. If that is true I believe they will trade him. But if he can convince the coaching staff he could play 3rd this off season it would be a huge win for the team because they can fill that position cheaply and use prospects to fill another hole, not a productive ML hitter.

I don’t understand your desire to get rid of a solid starting pitcher under control and create another hole on the team in the rotation. Sure, next year Glasnow fills it. But for $25M. Who fills it after that? This off season most have talked about the Cubs adding a young controlled starting pitcher and you keep trying to get rid of one. Exactly what has Steele done the last 2 years to suggest that “at best” he is a 3? Sure, he might have some regression, but he is still a very solid starter. Why move him and why are you so down on him? I would like Glasnow for 23’. But not to take Steele’s place.

If the Cubs have given up on Mervis this works for me. Have Glasnow for one year. If the Cubs sign Ohtani too, he ends up taking Glasnow’s spot in the rotation the following year. But they can’t let Glasnow’s salary stop them from adding in 24.

But there is a lot of area between plan A and D. Would you be disappointed if they ended up trading for Bichette, a young controlled pitcher, and then added either Alonso, Hoskins or Bellinger and signed the other Japanese starting pitcher? Add a pen arm at around $5M and that is the off season. I do want either Ohtani or a Soto trade. And then add from there. But they can still have a good off season without them.

I am sure suggesting Gunner was sarcasm. The Orioles are not trading him either.

Going to be a huge letdown if they don’t either sign Ohtani or make the Soto trade. Here just isn’t that much offense this off season. I guess if they missed on those two there can be trades. Maybe Bo or Vlad? Maybe Alonso? Maybe a surprise bat is available. I think they can go numerous ways to get pitching. Decent amount of free agents, some solid young controlled guys can be traded for, and even some guys on the last year of their deals. Bats are a bit harder after Ohtani and Soto.

Suarez salary is not cheap. Maybe the cost in prospects to get him is cheap, but he isn’t.

I don’t see the Cubs doing something that big for a 3rd baseman. I think it will be filled within or on a smaller trade. Could Polanco play 3rd? If so, does something like Polanco and Joe Ryan for Morel and Ben Brown work? Cubs get a decent bat at 3rd and a young controlled pitcher who misses bats. Twins get a lot of cheaper years of a guy who can hit 30+ homers and a top 100 pitching prospect. They save some money. Maybe Vasquez and Gomes need to be added to even it out a little. Allows Twins to get out of the Vasquez contract and still have a back up catcher for a year. I think to like this idea you have to believe in Ryan. I admit I haven’t seen much of him. But I do like his K rate.

They can also just leave Madrigal or Morel at 3rd if they really thought either filled a need. But I agree with you a deal is not happening.

I don’t see Hoerner or Steele in a Bichette trade. It just doesn’t make sense. You will fill one need but create another. I think maybe Morel goes to the Jays, plus a prospect or prospects. Maybe if the Jays like Wesnecki or Assad they could be added too. Honesrly, I don’t even expect the Cubs to get Bichette because I don’t see a good match. Doesn’t make sense for the Jays to take prospects and doesn’t make sense for the Cubs to trade for a position of need by giving up a solid player and then creating a different position of need.