Rcal10

You make a lot of good points. When your post like this I appreciate your POV. That said, there is a price where a team will trade with the Cubs. Doesn’t even have to be prospect for proven talent. Just as an example, why not something built around Morel for a 3rd baseman? Again, just as an example, Morel for Burger. Similar players. Similar control left. But Burger can play 3rd. Maybe a little below average but he has played the position. Then sign JD Martinez to DH. Does that improve the team? Maybe Morel for Naylor and then put Busch at 3rd and sign JD Martinez. Does that improve the team? If the Cubs wanted to do Morel for Naylor MAYBE it gets added to and they get Bieber too. Maybe they add Assad, or whatever else if needed. It certainly won’t deplete the farm. If Busch can play 3rd isn’t that a better team than what they have now? Are those Guardian trades ridiculous either way?

So by slanting it more towards the large revenue teams benefit, which we would agree lowering the year of control would do, you are favoring the large market teams more when they are now. Therefore widening the gap in competition between the large and all markets. Or, as you said, the low revenue teams would have to spend more money to try to compete. Considering they don’t do that now, why would they with a different system? Large market teams would just get guys earlier. I don’t see why a small market team would be ok with that. Remember, the owners have to vote on then rules they agree to. I don’t see that happening.

That is the problem. The system is backwards. When they are playing their best they aren’t getting paid the most. But if you shorten control time you hurt the low revenue teams. If a team can only have a guy for 4 years before free agency, the low revenue teams lose stars earlier. I don’t see that as a good thing. Widens the competitive gap. Honestly, I don’t have an answer. But I am pretty sure most owners will not like the idea of lowering the years of control of a player.

So by internal improvement with the reality that when guys first come up are you suggesting they don’t compete to win in 24’ and only win when internally they get better? We both agreed it could take few years for guys to be their best. I am fine with some guys coming up and the 26-27 team being awesome. But IMO they can also supplement the 24 team with a trade or two using a few of the prospects they have. They are not all going to play for the Cubs. There just isn’t enough room. As for trades, I am not going to make up offers. That turns into some suggesting there is no way the Cubs should give that up, why would the other team trade that guy, that is not enough for that guy, etc… But according to reports during the off season there have been plenty of guys available. Alonso, Polanco, Glasnow, Bieber, Naylor, Clase, Jansen, Tucker, Bregman, JD Davis, Bichette, Kim, Cease, Robert, Burnes, Soto, Cabrera, Luzardo, etc….. I am sure there are others who are available that we don’t know about. They got Busch in a deal and no one saw that coming. Now maybe trades are hard to make. Maybe teams are asking for a ridiculous haul. Could be because of what you suggested in your latest post, teams are holding onto guys. Some of those guys might not be worth what it would take and some may not be really available. I just don’t think I have been Hoyer bashing when suggesting I would like to see more done. I have not freaked out when I suggest I would like to see him more aggressive. I have also liked some things he has done and said so. I don’t think he is a terrible GM. But IMO his hands a tied somewhat by the FO. But I think he has this job because he does the job like the FO wants him too. My only complaint, and this is also with the FO, is I would like to see the Cubs act like a large market team. Maybe get a guy even if it isn’t a value signing. And maybe they will do that next year with Soto. But I have serious doubts they will. I still believe when the 24’ season starts they Cubs will look like an 85+ win team, or better. I still believe they will do something more. I only suggested if it is not getting one of the Boras guys it will have to be via a trade.

So the Cubs still have Perlaza? I don’t think he is on the team any longer.

And for every Steele, Alzolay, etc there are 5-10 or more guys who don’t make it, who have just as good a chance of making it as them. So tell me this, if the Cubs don’t get any of the Boras free agents how do you suppose they get better? That was all I was answering. They would need to make trades. Who would they trade? Wouldn’t it stand to reason it would be minor league talent for major league talent? That is where they have their most assets. I also am not bitching about Hoyer. I think given the guidelines I feel based on those guidelines he does ok. Would I like him to be a little more aggressive? Yes. But overall he is ok. I feel you go out of your way to defend Hoyer to the point of putting words in my mouth or misrepresenting my post to make a point. To use words you love to uses, stop freaking out.

How does the idea of trading young talent for proven major league talent cross those guys off? Stop trolling. If you don’t like the idea of trading from a loaded system to bring in talent now, that’s fine. But don’t turn that idea into some sort of stupid idea and make even dumber comments about it, like this one. Way back someone asked, maybe you, what could be done to better the team now. The answer is make some baseball trades. I am not a GM and neither is anyone here. So posting trade idea is a waste of time. But if these prospects are so good that people have them penciled into future line ups, they should be able to get a decent proven player now. And if they can’t, maybe they are not as good as some suggest. So maybe the Cubs shouldn’t count on them either.

That is fair. And I am not siding with b2b, I am just pointing out if the FA market isn’t happening they have enough assets to make trades for proven talent and still have a good farm system. I don’t want to constantly point to the farm as this carrot we somehow can never get to. I also agree we don’t know asking prices. And maybe we wouldn’t all be happy if what they had to give up. But this team should/could be better by making a few moves and utilizing those assets they have in the minors.

There are also Cubs fans who love the new toy until he fails and then move into the next shiny toy until he fails. Repeat as needed. I would bet many who are penciling in any of the young guys the Cubs have now were doing the same with Davis a few years ago. And they will do it with the new toy in the future always suggesting greatness awaits. Yet, it seldom comes. Fact is they have several young guys coming. There is no reason not to use a few to bring in proven talent.

While we can argue all day long about a trade not offering enough or why would a team want a certain deal, the basic idea is why not trade some of your abundant minor league talent for major league talent. That could get you to 90 wins. You don’t have to mortgage the future for a one year guy. Maybe you deal for someone with 3 years before free agency. Maybe you do deal for a one year guy, but he didn’t cost a top prospect. I am certainly not a GM, but neither is anyone else here. So we don’t know what teams want. But if the question is what can Jed do to make this a contending team in 24’ I would say make some trades. Do so before the “star”prospects now turn into Brennon Davis of nit long ago. As squally pointed out, the Cubs have 7 top 100 prospects. Use a few plus maybe some lower level younger guys to bring in talent.

So a possible great team in 2027. Usually guys don’t come up and are great their first year. And if they do have 7 top 100 guys that is all the more reason to use some minor league talent to get major league talent now.

They could use some of the minor league talent to trade for major league talent. What are they holding onto all of these guys for? Some promise of a great team in 2027? I understand where they are with free agents. It is frustrating, but I get it. They have to wait it out. But they have a surplus of very good, not great, minor league talent. Use some of it, and you still have a solid minor league system, and build a winner now.

If that is 8 years the annual isn’t the issue. They years are. I wouldn’t mind 6 years. But if Jed isn’t even going to extend beyond his idea of a good value signing they are never going to get a top guy. And if he isn’t going to do that he should just see about trading young minor league talent for major league talent.

Yep, if he stays there he will not be a Cub. Simple as that.

I agree Jed is running the team exactly how ownership wants him too. He is staying within their guidelines. As you said, let’s see if he is good at winning with those guidelines. Now is the time we should be judging him on wins. Precious to that, he was building the organization back up. And he did a good job doing that, IMO.

Where in my question does it appear I am freaking out? I am just asking what people think will happen to open things up. Just conversing about what’s happening in the off season. We all seem to have ideas as to how the FA period will eventually play out(and share those thoughts). I just thought maybe someone has an idea as to what needs to happen for things to move. Does Boras break or do FO come to his demands? Who goes first? Things like that. There is absolutely no panic or freaking out in my end. Just making conversation.

So when does the dam break? When does one of these 4 Boras clients sign a deal? What has to happen? If no one is offering the money Boras wants what changes for a team to finally decide they will meet his demands? And what happens if no one does budge? Are these guys really just not going to play? Are they going to waste a year by signing late and hurting their production in 24’? When does this come to a head? What happens for this to end?

I don’t think you sign a guy for 7+ years and over $160M as a PR move. They might sign him, but it will be because they feel he helps the team, not so they look better to their fans.

I am not a huge fan either. I don’t hate him, but don’t think he is great either. But fair is fair. He has never had an opportunity to trade prospects for proven talent. So we don’t know what he will do.

And what do you use as a basis for this statement. When should he have traded prospects for proven talent up until this off season. They have not been competing the last few years and they really didn’t have the assets of value needed. I get your point, he hasn’t made any real big deal using the minor league talent. I just don’t agree he won’t. He really never was in position to.

I think we are closing in a a point where Jed needs to turn the screws a bit. Maybe have an actual trade he is comfortable with lined up and go to Boras with a offer for any of those guys. Let it be known if they can not negotiate to a satisfactory number he will move on. But then he needs to move on. I am fine with that. He should not sit back without other options ready to go if he does miss out. In fact, he should have options for any direction it goes with Boras. Obviously depending on who Jed decides he wants or who he ends up negotiating for, there should be different plans. Simplest form of this is just using the Astros as a trade partner. Maybe he has a Bregman or Tucker deal lined up. Well, obviously depending on who he could sign beteeen Bellinger or Chapman, he has something else also lined up. This is just an example. Before people lose their minds, I am not suggesting the Astros would trade either of these guys. Right now Jed is allowing the market and Boras to dictate what he will do with this team. And I just wish he got aggressive and actually has other options and showed he isn’t afraid to do something else. Pitchers and catchers report in a week.

I think someone has been sipping too much cubbie kool aid. I can see low to mid 80’s team. High 80’s to 90 with a bright future, I have to really be all in with Jed and the FO. And I am not there.

I would agree with you that it is probably a 20-30% chance they don’t sign any of Boras’ FA. I am not all doom and gloom on this. I just don’t think that even after guys are signed the last one standing won’t have options. Maybe no one pays them what Boras wants and the Cubs get someone at their values price. But there is still a 20-30% chance each player gets one team to bite and pay close to what that player wants. Or at least pay more than the Cubs.

But the point is, just because one team signs one of the 4 and then eliminates them from the other 3, doesn’t mean all 4 can’t be signed by a team other than the Cubs. 4 different teams. There are enough teams that will sign free agents.

Jays sign Bellinger, Giants sign Chapman, Angels sign Snell and Rangers sign Montgomery. All not that crazy a scenario.