NorthsideAvenger

And then he went to Heaven. :D With his fellow boys; Stewart and Sting. Who could ever forget Sting, Stewart and Adams. You know were I am going....

World Series title: I would bring back both Hendry and Baker on 2 yr deals, each. That's it. World Series appearance with a WS loss: Baker and Hendry back for 1 yr, with options. No playoffs: Baker is gone, and Hendry is back for 1 yr in a FULL HOT SEAT. Under .500 Baker should be fired......from a cannon back to California, and Hendry should be loaded up next. Cubs finish behind the Brewers AND Pirates, and maybe the Reds: Hendry should be forced to run the Devil Rays organization.

Much ado about nothing, or potentially real trouble? I don't like the timing with contract negotiations coming on. If Prior is "TRULY" unhappy about his name being mention in trade rumors, then boys...we truly have a "FRAGILE' pitcher on our hands, and I don't mean that physically. Besides, I HONESTLY BELIEVE USA Today don't have that KIND of knowledge to know what Prior is actually thinking. That kid of "breaking news" would be first reported in Chicago, before it would make it USA Today. My guess is....USA Today sports writer got bored, and is trying to start some....problems...

Do you really believe that Jones is going to digress that badly? No I believe Patterson isn't nearly as bad as some believe. Corey will be the "NEXT JEROME WALTON." Corey won't even outproduce Matt Murton next yr, much less Jones. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me that CPatt is riding the pine before June is out.

I dont understand why you think I am "insane in the membrane." Your first point is untrue and if it was ture, it would just show the stupidity of our manager. Your second point doesnt make sense. 2b isn't any more occupied with Walker on the team then it would be with Lugo, in fact, its probably more open for Patterson with Walker on the team as opposed to Lugo. I dont know much about the McClung you are talking about but if youre talking about Casey Fossum then ew. I'd rather have Walker over Lugo and I'd MUCH rather have Williams over Fossum. First: I am drunk when i WROTE that thread, so excus me. Second: Lugo and Walker brings differnet thign to the table. Lugo brings a better glove, and more speed to the table, with Walker bringing a better bat. But, Lugo may be consider a better fit with the Cubs, becauce it could Hairston/Lugo, Lugo/Cedeno the Cubs would get decent prosuction. Third: EVERYBODY and their mama's know the Cubs were going to trade Walker (and no turning back now) so i doubt the Cubs are going to make a Walker trade that suits your feelings. Getting a decent arm like Fossum, yes, I said DECENT, with Lugo for Walker/Wiliams is a DECENT trade, you're just short-sided at the deal. All this is dependent on Hill/Guzman/Brownlie being able to produce, or Wood coming back strong from surgery, or the Cubs actually getting Zito or Weaver. And no didn't call YOU "insane in the membrane", I'm calling people who doesn't think this deal is solid for the Cubs, "insane." Besides trading for Lugo is BEFITTING off the offseason the Cubs have had, don't you think? Stop overreacting. BOy I don't think I should be drunk while ON The computer, cause I can hardley see streight. .

Look anybody who doesn't think this is a solid deal for the Cubs, is "insane in the membrane." 1: Walker is THIRD in the depth chart @ 2B, and with his personality, I think he has no shot at starting at 2B. 2: Even Lugo is moved to 2B and his defense takes a hit at 2B, it is still a pretty even trade. Not to mention it would open up 2B for Eric Patterson in 2007. 3: The rumor is Williams/Walker for Lugo, unnamed pitcher. My gut feeling is the unname pitcher is either McClung or Fossum. To which it would still be a solid move. Besides anything that keeps Perez from starting is fine by me.

Why? They are virtually the SAME player. So what makes Tavarez better then Pierre? (and don't say the age) ------------------------ And the O's trading for Lidge in the proposed Tejada deal, would have made NO SENSE at all. The O's would be battling the DRays for last place in the East, thus Lidge would hve been pretty much useless for a team that would have very save opportunities. So that deal with Houston made no sense at all.

With that kind of package, the Cubs better be getting somebody like McClung or Banskton back in return. NO WAY is Lugo is worth more then one solid prospect, regardless of what ATL/Bos were alledgely offering. When it comes down to it, TB has to realize which has more value to their organization, 1 (more a 2nd, depending the season Lugo has) draft in the 13-20 range, or say at worst 2 solid prospects. Because if they don't trade Lugo, then they will lost a "bidding partner" in the Cubs, cause I feel Cedeno is going to be VERY GOOD this yr. http://www.baseball-reference.com/friv/scomp.cgi?I=perezne01:Neifi+Perez&st=int&compage=25&age=25 We could get Cintron---who is slightly better player thru age 25 then Lugo was---prolly for Welly and Perez (the kid we got for Patterson). Lugo is worth what Tampa can get for him. I'm not sold on getting him, but it will definitely take such a package to get the Rays attention. Yeah, but unlike alot teams who are interested in Lugo, the Cubs do have a LEGITIMATE SS (Cedeno) and a LEGITIMATE 2B (Walker, and to a certain degree Hairston), so the Cubs don't have offer more then say Moore and Welly. I don't think we can say just yet that Cedeno is completely legit. I think he could be very good, and I want him to start, but he's only had 80 big league at bats. Legit may be a stretch, RIGHT NOW, but I have the atmost confidence in the young man to become as good, if not better then Lugo in 2006.

With that kind of package, the Cubs better be getting somebody like McClung or Banskton back in return. NO WAY is Lugo is worth more then one solid prospect, regardless of what ATL/Bos were alledgely offering. When it comes down to it, TB has to realize which has more value to their organization, 1 (more a 2nd, depending the season Lugo has) draft in the 13-20 range, or say at worst 2 solid prospects. Because if they don't trade Lugo, then they will lost a "bidding partner" in the Cubs, cause I feel Cedeno is going to be VERY GOOD this yr. http://www.baseball-reference.com/friv/scomp.cgi?I=perezne01:Neifi+Perez&st=int&compage=25&age=25 We could get Cintron---who is slightly better player thru age 25 then Lugo was---prolly for Welly and Perez (the kid we got for Patterson). Lugo is worth what Tampa can get for him. I'm not sold on getting him, but it will definitely take such a package to get the Rays attention. Yeah, but unlike alot teams who are interested in Lugo, the Cubs do have a LEGITIMATE SS (Cedeno) and a LEGITIMATE 2B (Walker, and to a certain degree Hairston), so the Cubs don't have offer more then say Moore and Welly.

With that kind of package, the Cubs better be getting somebody like McClung or Banskton back in return. NO WAY is Lugo is worth more then one solid prospect, regardless of what ATL/Bos were alledgely offering. When it comes down to it, TB has to realize which has more value to their organization, 1 (maybe a 2nd, depending the season Lugo has) draft pick in the 13-20 range, or say at worst 2 solid prospects. Because if they don't trade Lugo, then they will lost a "bidding partner" in the Cubs, cause I feel Cedeno is going to be VERY GOOD this yr. http://www.baseball-reference.com/friv/scomp.cgi?I=perezne01:Neifi+Perez&st=int&compage=25&age=25 We could get Cintron---who is slightly better player thru age 25 then Lugo was---prolly for Welly and Perez (the kid we got for Patterson). Who could visible have a better SEASON then Lugo.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the World Series a "TEAM GOAL", and the HOF a "Individual Goal" much like the Cy Young? I know people remember Sutter hugging Porter after winning the World Series, and I can understand that, but...if winning a World Series was a requirement to reach the HOF, then there would be NO CUBS in the HOF, then. To use the World Series as justification for wearing the Cards hat is simply wrong. If Sutter wanted to use his stats, that's one thing, but using the World Series is a slap in the face of the Cubs organization (rather they deserve or not is another story), for what they did for his career. In fact, I would prefer him using his stats as justification. With that said, when Lee Smith makes the HOF, atleast we won't be having this conversation.

Corey joins this list, unfortunately: Every player on this list was a FORMER top prospect who was an OF, just like CPatt. It shows that the Cubs don't have a patent on being "stupid" with their developments. The difference THO, is that most of these teams were able to acquire BIG LEAGUE talent (ie Burrell/Abreu for the Phils, Floyd/Beltran for the Mets, Matsui/Sheffield, Ichiro/Ibanez, Jenkins/Lee) to cover up for the organization mistake with a former top prospect. What big league talent did the Cubs acquire to omake up for the mistake that is Corey Patterson?

From the baseball HOF webpage. And since Sutter is pretty much set the standard for the modern closer, Sutter most "indelible" mark came as a member of the Cubs. No disrespect to the Cards, after reading...Sutter has to go in as Cubs. Hate to disagree, but saving a 7th game of a World Series game is by far his most "indelible" moment. When ever a Bruce Sutter highlight is shown, that is usually the one chosen. And I am sure he himself would rank that over winning a Cy Young award as well. I'm very happy to finally see him get in, no matter what team he goes in as. You can't go wrong with either team....sure it gives more to have fun with your fellow cubs/cards friends. But it really doesn't matter which team he goes in as...he played a major role in both clubs when he was with them. There isn't really a wrong choice here....as long as its not the Braves. Someone mentioned that he has said he wanted to go in as a Cardinal. From what I understand, he said on radio today that he hadn't decided on a preference and that the HOF had asked him about his preference and that he would get back to them about it (from the accounts I have read). It sounds like the Hall thought that it was pretty even between the 2 teams and that they would honor his preference. No, that was a product of him as a GREAT closer. Sutter's "indelible" mark on Cardinals HISTORY is the World Series, but seeing as Sutter's name is MENTIONED as one of the few GREAT ORIGINAL CLOSERS, who developed the "split-finger pitch" with the Cubs, I would say his "indelible" mark on baseball happen when he was with the Cubs. He became a GREAT closer with the Cubs, won a Cy Young with the Cubs, developed a "NEW" pitch in the split-finger with the Cubs, the Cards simply rode Sutter to a World Series. Sutter left his "indelible" mark on baseball with the Cubs, plain and simple. Thus, imo, should go in as a Cub, not a Card. But if he went in as a Cards, there wouldn't be a debate. Again, I believe Sutter will go in as a Cub. With that said....now that Sutter is in....how long till the ex-Cubs Lee Smith have to wait before he gets in? (and no there won't be a debate, he'll get in as a Cub). I think Smith "COULD" take McGwire's spot in the trinity next yr. I think people are going to hold off on McGwire, until they can separate drugs numbers to clean numbers of McGwire.

You're welcome.... :lol: just kidding.

From the baseball HOF webpage. And since Sutter is pretty much set the standard for the modern closer, Sutter most "indelible" mark came as a member of the Cubs. No disrespect to the Cards, after reading...Sutter has to go in as Cubs.

I don't understand why you think it's that simple. Corey did put the bat on the ball and did produce acceptable numbers before, and he could do it again, if he was used properly. The only reason spot in the order matters is because not only did they bat him in the spot, but they expected him to do things he could not do, and de-emphasized the things he could do. You can't judge Corey on 2005 alone, when he was truly awful. He was not always awful, or close to it. He has been as productive or more productive than other guys on this team that management apparantly loves. In 8 seasons with the Chicago Cubs organization, Corey Patterson had two and half seasons in which he did nothing (his first in A ball, and 2004, and 2003 being the half yr. Heck even his LONE good YEAR in 2004, he was still league average as a player. I do blame the Cubs for rushing him. Watching the Cubs rush Patterson and now Pie is like jumping out of a airplane without a parachute. You know what's going to happen, and you have no ability to change it. Cubs should deserves some of the blame, but to keep it simple EVERYBODY was at fault for the development of Corey Patterson, and I said EVERYBODY. I do think Corey may become a useful player in Baltimore, but he won't become the next Lou Brock, or Rafael Palmeiro, or heck even Eric Hinske.

Go over to wikipedia.com type in Ryne Sandberg and it's the last paragraph. :lol: . So WE ARE NOT THE ONLY ONES who thinks Joe Morgan is an idiot.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/suttebr01.shtml That's REALLY a tough choice. He has similar number with both teams. The Cubs gave him his start, and allow him to flourish as a closer (are we talking about the Cubs allowing someone to develop :-k ) but he did when the World Series with the Cards. And Sutter DID bring Durham to Chicago, for what it's worth. Opinion is, I REALLY hope Sutter goes in as a Cubs. Beisdes....wasn't it Sutter who gave up Ryno's two homerun is that EPIC game back in the early 80s?

If Harvey was "all that", don't you think he'd have progressed farther and faster by now, with improved numbers? I don't see anything encouraging from his 2005 performance, and he's still a long ways from the major leagues. He's yet another free swinging hacker. The kid has tons of power, but if he can't do better than this, where's the excitement? 2006 is make-or-break year for him. If he doesn't progress impressively, he's a bust. That seems to be a bit dire for someone who didn't turn 21 until the very end of the season at Low A. A .275/.335/.500 line isn't very unfeasible at all, and would be a fine line for a 21 year old at High A. He has shown no progress in plate discipline. The K's are exceedingly high. His speed, cannon arm, and power are exciting, but if he never learns how to get on base....his progression arc looks too much like some other Cub prospects who we will not name. Again, writing off Harvey--who is barely 21 YRS OLD---, and Grant Johnson---who has been in the system, what...1 or so yrs---is extremely short-sighted, and impatient. If they failed, so be it....but don't write them off, just because they haven't REACHED YOUR EXPECTATIONS by a certain age. I could live with Harvey/Dopirak/Pawelek,/Johnson/Pie all reaching the Cubs, and becoming impact players at 24 yrs of age or OLDER, if it meant they have the skills to become impact players and help the Cubs win a world championship.

Scott Boras (Weaver's agent) would beg to differ. He wouldn't let the Dodgers turn Dreifort into a closer, what makes you think he allow any team to turn (Dream) Weaver into a closeR?

And if he would ever figure out how to GET ON BASE, then his speed would become an asset. Until then, he wastes his speed.

When I posted, I didn't see anybody else had posted it. After it was posted, I saw someone beat me to to. So I put in "Forget this post" type message in my thread.

This is the KIND of deal I was expecting for Corey Patterson. Two things were for certain: 1: Hendry was not going to keep Corey Patterson at $3 mill to be a BACKUP OF. Corey is aloof enough as is....making him a backup OF would have been a useless. This means....Restovich has a LEGITIMATE shot at making the club. 2: The Cubs WERE NOT going to get anything worth get excited about. (remember Van Poppel, Brien Taylor were also former PHENOMS that were bums). The Cubs did alright, IMO, because they got two young player who COULD help the Cubs in a couple of yrs, which we couldn't say about Corey. Decent deal, if you thought about. Corey needed to go....because the BOO BIRDS would have been out and about in 2006. Oh yeah...he had to go because COREY PATTERSON---the baseball player---SUCKS.

Yeah, Restovich is the guy I was thinking of. If Hendry fails this year I think it's bye bye time. I don't. As mention in another thread, by I BELIEVE Bruce Miles, he believes Hendry is safe through 2008.

I understand it is Ken Davidoff of Newsday....but this is a very odd/disturbing statement that was made by the UNION'S COO. I understand the Union is powerful and all, but to make "threats", albeit vague threats. There spinning the statement, but nonetheless it is a "disturbing statement" made by a COO.