CaliforniaRaisin

Argue away the semantics, but both the trades you mentioned were head-scratchers at the time for most folks. We'll see if Tampa has really changed their steep price demands with a new GM.

I'd rather go with the 3.75ish figure because he had high ERAs when he was pretty young. A 3.75 would have put a team in 3rd place in the NL for team ERA. Teams average around 1440 IP. Livan regularly accounts for close to 17% of the team innings. That's the kind of guy you want to have around. I'd rather go with the facts. How young is pretty young? I've bolded a few from seasons after he's been well established in the league. 1996: 0.00 ERA 1997: 3.18 ERA 1998: 4.72 ERA 1999: 4.64 ERA 2000: 3.75 ERA 2001: 5.24 ERA 2002: 4.38 ERA 2003: 3.20 ERA 2004: 3.60 ERA 2005: 3.98 ERA 2006: 5.18 ERA So he's posting a 4.16 career ERA, but he eats a lot more innings than most pitchers. Innings eaters are great, but I don't see how they're something extra special when they're pitching just average over all those extra innings. Early to mid 20's is pretty young with his lack of experience. All I'm saying is to judge him now not just on 3-year splits but 6-year splits. I don't see anything unreasonable about that. Basically whatever will fit your argument? So the past 6 years is ok?

Yup...Florida, San Fran and now Washington.

I'd rather go with the 3.75ish figure because he had high ERAs when he was pretty young. A 3.75 would have put a team in 3rd place in the NL for team ERA. Teams average around 1440 IP. Livan regularly accounts for close to 17% of the team innings. That's the kind of guy you want to have around. I'd rather go with the facts. How young is pretty young? I've bolded a few from seasons after he's been well established in the league. 1996: 0.00 ERA 1997: 3.18 ERA 1998: 4.72 ERA 1999: 4.64 ERA 2000: 3.75 ERA 2001: 5.24 ERA 2002: 4.38 ERA 2003: 3.20 ERA 2004: 3.60 ERA 2005: 3.98 ERA 2006: 5.18 ERA So he's posting a 4.16 career ERA, but he eats a lot more innings than most pitchers. Innings eaters are great, but I don't see how they're something extra special when they're pitching just average over all those extra innings.

I don't like the idea of rotating pitchers between the pen and rotation because of the differences in preparing for the two (especially when you keep switching back and forth). Limit their pitches, skip a start from each of them once a month or so and you should be fine. That's a good strategy to have even if the Cubs weren't out of it.

Livan is an exception to the rule because he produces an ungodly amount of innings. You can carry one less relief pitcher if you wanted because he pitches so much. So an ERA of X over Y IP = 3 or 4 starter but an ERA of X over Y + 50 IP = 1 or 2 starter You're talking out of both sides of your mouth here. Livan is probably the only guy who has an added value because of his stamina. That type of stamina is very rare and a big reason why he makes so much money. Why is added stamina so valuable if he's posting the same 4.16 ERA during that time?

Look at pitches (specifically the pitches Prior threw as he tired and his mechanics altered). Pitcher abuse is a great stat to look at. Especially when it was Prior's first season throwing anywhere near that many innings. It's a good stat, but I'd like to see how many innings the non-Cubs at the top of the list pitch every year and what their performance is. I can tell you Livan Hernandez throws a lot of innings/pitches a year and really isn't that good. Actually, I'm a big fan of Livan and think he is a good pitcher. Is it the 5.18 ERA and 1.55 WHIP he has on the season that makes him a good pitcher? Or is it the career 4.16 ERA and .275 BAA? It's his numbers since leaving Florida (around 3.75 ERA) and the 220-250 IP every year as well as the complete games. He's not an ace, but one of the better No. 2's in the game. You NEVER have to worry about putting bums like Rusch in to pitch in his slot and dilute the numbers. I'm not judging him on his performance so far this year because he has a good and long resume. Wow. You do realize during his time in San Fran, he's had seasons worse or equivalent to Glendon Rusch had at the same time*? It's great that he can eat innings up, but it's not as great when he's average at best (and sometimes awful). And his career numbers aren't that great considering he's pitched his home games in three pitcher's havens (Florida, San Francisco and Washington). * 2001: Livan: 77 ERA+, Glendon: 89 ERA+ 2002: Livan: 87 ERA+, Glendon: 85 ERA+

Look at pitches (specifically the pitches Prior threw as he tired and his mechanics altered). Pitcher abuse is a great stat to look at. Especially when it was Prior's first season throwing anywhere near that many innings. It's a good stat, but I'd like to see how many innings the non-Cubs at the top of the list pitch every year and what their performance is. I can tell you Livan Hernandez throws a lot of innings/pitches a year and really isn't that good. Actually, I'm a big fan of Livan and think he is a good pitcher. Is it the 5.18 ERA and 1.55 WHIP he has on the season that makes him a good pitcher? Or is it the career 4.16 ERA and .275 BAA?

The word I heard at the game this afternoon was that Mota was going to be going up to be a bench guy, only playing about every 5th game or so. Given this, it makes more sense that he goes than Chirinos, who is thriving playing every day (and Mota hasn't been playing in Peoria more than about every 3 days or so here...) Thanks! I'm kind of disappointed then that Mota has been relegated to a bench role at such a young age.

As would I. I dont know exactly what hte foul was, but mavericks were all over him... And whoever just tried to call that timeout is an idiot. Nobody was "all over him." In fact, he wasn't even touched in any way that would result in a foul call. Who cares. Wade isn't the first and won't be the last player to get calls in the NBA. It is not like Dirk hasn't gotten calls. Hell, Lebron had the most obvious travel go uncalled for a game winning shot earlier this year The Mavs were still robbed. I think that is an awful justification.

Oh my goodness. He wasn't even touched.

As would I. I dont know exactly what hte foul was, but mavericks were all over him... And whoever just tried to call that timeout is an idiot. Just because they were around him doesn't mean he was fouled.

Wow, way to screw up with the timeout.

Look at pitches (specifically the pitches Prior threw as he tired and his mechanics altered). Pitcher abuse is a great stat to look at. Especially when it was Prior's first season throwing anywhere near that many innings.

Getting his velocity back is a big IF. I don't think so. It's nearly half-way there from where he starter a few weeks ago. Are you saying he was throwing 85-87 in last start? Are you serious?

Getting his velocity back is a big IF. And even if he did, look at what he did the last two years when he had it....not exactly ace quality pitching. Before the line drive, he was "ace quality" last season.

I think it will in a few starts.

Probable Starters: Iowa: RHP Jae-Kuk Ryu (2-5, 3.88 ERA, 67.1 IP, 53/26, 1.23 WHIP) vs. LHP Renyel Pinto (4-2, 2.93 ERA) :( West Tenn: LHP JR Mathes (5-4, 3.43 ERA, 76 IP, 59/17, 1.22 WHIP) Daytona: RHP Justin Berg (5-5, 4.54 ERA, 73.1 IP, 62/33, 1.53 WHIP) Boise: LHP Mark Pawelek ('05, Mesa & Boise: 0-3, 2.54 ERA, 46 IP, 60/22, 1.15 WHIP)

Yes, Mark is the opening day starter for Boise.

Boise's Roster Get to Know the Hawks - with a blurb on Petrick

Nah. Given how raw he is, I'm kind of surprised that he doesn't go to Mesa (I guess it's the whole got to woo him away from football thing). I think we might see Downs and Blevins from Boise's roster in Peoria. Seeing who goes to Peoria as catcher will be interesting. I'd guess a draft pick IF will replace Mota on the Peoria roster. I am surprised that the Cubs promoted Mota (.276/.326/.322, 13 Ks, 7 BBs; age 19) over Chirinos (.269/.383/.408, 35 Ks, 39 BBs, age 22), who held his own at Daytona last season. The Cubs seem to like Mota; a 19-year SS promoted to high-A is rather impressive.

His power should translate to the big leagues, but his long swing and average plate discipline is going to get him eaten up in the big leagues. His K-rate is really bad now itself.

Campusano's (Peoria's closer) double promotion to West Tenn leads me to believe Clay Rapada is headed up to AAA soon enough.

I merged all three of today's promotions threads into one and summarized all the promotions in the first post.