CaliforniaRaisin

Peoria is in a rain delay. No wonder Nathan can post in the 23 Prospects Under 23 thread. :P

so you'd rather they lose? that makes a lot sense. Why even have Low A and High A then if you are just gonna discount everything the players do here and just go off potential? Wins are a poor metric to rate a pitcher by anywhere, but especially in the low minors where pitchers don't go as long and relievers aren't always the best. Kc wasn't talking about wins or losses as a team stat but just that they are an incomplete and poor stat to judge a pitcher with. I'd rather judge a pitcher based on peripheral stats involving walk and strikeout rates, WHIP, BAA, etc. At the lower levels of the minor leagues, scouting and "potential" is still very important since the players haven't played professionally for long and have a ways to reach a finished product. Also at the lower levels, prospects can be playing against far less advanced competition which will allow them to rack up the stats. I completely disagree. You pay a pitcher to win. While it shouldnt be the only stat used to judge it MUST be used. Especially in this league. It shows that a pitcher has the ability to go 5 innings and pick up a win. More importantly it shows the ability to keep a team in the game and get a win. I think the ability to go 5 is pretty important, but the other stuff is secondary. Sure, you pay a pitcher to win. But if that were all you were paying for, then he better go 9 everytime and you wouldn't need a reliever. There are many things that can get in the way of a pitcher getting a win while they perform well - the bullpen blowing the lead or the offense not scoring being prime examples (just ask Clemens last year, Randy Johnson the year before and Kerry Wood throughout his career). The ability to keep a team in the game can be better judged by ERA, etc. If a pitcher gives up 1 run in 6 and loses 1-0, he has successfully kept his team in the game but got a loss. I agree that Gallagher, just one year older than Pawelek, being 3 levels more advanced is very impressive. You don't need to tell me, I have Sean rated higher than Mark. But I rate him higher not because of his impressive W-L record but because of his stuff, control, and other stats - which are impressive. I think one can argue that Pawelek has more potential than Gallagher - Pawelek has the ceiling of an ace pitcher while Gallagher's ceiling is supposed to be lower. My "shots" are just the reasons why I ranked him lower than Pie, Marmol, Marshall and Cedeno (and for the record, I think Gallagher has a higher ceiling than Marshall - but Marshall is holding his own in the big leagues which is why I rated him higher). Actually, I think he'll get there earlier.

Unless you've studied film and compared them side by side, how can you know something like that. I mean, I readily agree that Prior is likely the better pitcher, but all we've heard from the beginning with Sean is his control and how he can locate his fastball. Before he was able to do that at 88-91 mph, now he is doing it 91-94 mph. That sounds a lot like what Prior does to me. Oops, my fault. I meant to say he had better control, not necessarily better location on his fastball. And you are probably right about his breaking pitches still needing some work, but he certainly has the time to work on them, HE'S 20! He'd be young for the Low-A MWL! Again, since this is a 23 & under list, I'm valuing age a little more and current performance a little less. Heh, I just valued prospects the same as I would if there was no age restrictions. I thing I value him pretty highly.

In past years, the Cubs lacked OBP. They needed to get guys on base more consistently to score runs. Now they lack power and OBP, a far more lethal combination (for the Cubs).

so you'd rather they lose? that makes a lot sense. Why even have Low A and High A then if you are just gonna discount everything the players do here and just go off potential? Wins are a poor metric to rate a pitcher by anywhere, but especially in the low minors where pitchers don't go as long and relievers aren't always the best. Kc wasn't talking about wins or losses as a team stat but just that they are an incomplete and poor stat to judge a pitcher with. I'd rather judge a pitcher based on peripheral stats involving walk and strikeout rates, WHIP, BAA, etc. At the lower levels of the minor leagues, scouting and "potential" is still very important since the players haven't played professionally for long and have a ways to reach a finished product. Also at the lower levels, prospects can be playing against far less advanced competition which will allow them to rack up the stats.

I think Guzman and Marmol are ahead of Gallagher too. I do think Gallagher rates as higher than a #3 pitcher if the improvements he has made (in terms of the quality of his breaking pitches and changeup) remain, along with the better velocity on the FB. But even comparing just his scouting report to 2002 Prior is getting ahead of ourselves, for now. Guzman is 24 and thus can't be considered for this list. Marmol is a better pitcher than Gallagher is right now, but he is also 23 while Gallagher is just 20. How much better will Sean get in the next 3 seasons? I was referring to Guzma on an overall Cubs top prospect list. Marmol has also only been pitching for 4 years, so he still has a way to go in improvement. How much better will Carlos get in the next 3 seasons? His ceiling is higher than Gallagher's. My point was that Prior at AA was able to locate his fastball better than Gallagher has so it's not a fair comparison. I took into account both comments when I was talking about his slider, curve and change. I want to see more consistancy on Sean's curve, especially given the problems he has mentioned in regards losing his feel for it. Also, I don't think his "loopy" curve (used for location) will be effective at higher levels. All in all, I don't think it's far fetched to imagine Sean with a low-90s fastball, a plus slider, plus curve and an average change, along with good control in the big leagues. But I get the feeling his breaking pitches still need some work, and part of his higher ranking by you is based on how advanced those pitches are.

I completely agree with texascub. Marmol isn't Rich Hill, he actually does have things he can work on by starting everyday in the minors.

I wouldn't be so sure; below is the radar image from about 30 minutes ago and the game is still an hour away. http://image.weather.com/web/radar/us_tup_closeradar_medium_usen.jpg The precip is moving NNE and there's nothing to the southwest of Huntsville. Also, the sun should be setting soon in that part of the nation, which could mean that a lot of the precip outside of the main bands (on either side of the Memphis area) will be dying down.

His curve and slider still need some work (consistancy) to be above average pitches. I don't think his changeup is anymore than average, even with the improvements to it (it was below average last year). The scouting report, especially the physical frame of the two pitchers, doesn't sound like Prior. His control and the quality of his pitches isn't at Prior's 2002 level yet. I think Guzman and Marmol are ahead of Gallagher too. I do think Gallagher rates as higher than a #3 pitcher if the improvements he has made (in terms of the quality of his breaking pitches and changeup) remain, along with the better velocity on the FB. But even comparing just his scouting report to 2002 Prior is getting ahead of ourselves, for now.

#-o In that case, rain shouldn't be an issue for the game - at least not for the first two thirds of it.

Well, it comes down to which you consider more important in a prospect (and how much you value each) - ceiling and the likelihood of reaching that ceiling. Then again, if Gallagher's pitch velocity has indeed reached the mid-90s and his breaking pitches become the plus pitches I think they will, I think his ceiling will be higher than a #3 pitcher.

Low 90s fastball, change and curve.

1. OF Felix Pie 2. RHP Carlos Marmol 3. LHP Sean Marshall 4. SS Ronny Cedeno 5. RHP Sean Gallagher 6. LHP Mark Pawelek 7. 2B Eric Patterson 8. RHP Jae-Kuk Ryu 9. RHP Randy Wells 10. LHP Donnie Veal 11. 1B Brian Dopirak 12. RHP Mitch Atkins 13. C Jake Fox 14. C Mark Reed 15. RHP Mark Holliman 16. RHP Juan Mateo 17. 3B Scott Moore 18. RHRP Michael Phelps 19. RHP Justin Berg 20. RHP Billy Petrick 21. RF Ryan Harvey 22. RHP Scott Taylor 23. C Geovany Soto EDIT: Added Soto, took out Dylan Johnston.

Huntsville area: A tale of two maps: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/DJAXXFAN/Randon%20NSBB%20pictures/huntsvilleweathermap.jpg Yup. Eventually, my map will start filling up with greens, yellows and reds.

Huntsville area: http://image.weather.com/web/radar/us_avl_closeradar_medium_usen.jpg

As good as he's looked, I hope Marmol is sent down. After being called up straight from AA I think he needs the development time the most. Indeed. I think he'll head to Iowa instead of West Tenn, though.

word. i hope that ref never officiates another game in his life. That's getting off easy.

Probable Starters: Iowa: LHP Les Walrond (6-2, 3.67 ERA, 73.2 IP, 57/36, 1.49 WHIP) vs. LHP Chris George (1-0, 6.43 ERA) West Tenn: RHP Randy Wells (3-2, 1.12 ERA, 48.1 IP, 43/8, 0.89 WHIP) Peoria: RHP Scott Taylor: (3-2, 2.89 ERA, 53 IP, 24/7, 1.19 WHIP) @ LHP Ron Madej (2-1, 2.51 ERA)

Someone mg420 didn't mention is Nic Jackson. You should see RHP Randy Wells and LHP JR Mathes this weekend.

By the way, Peoria and Kane County are tied for first place.

Probable Starters: Iowa: LHP Ryan O'Malley (3-3, 4.28 ERA, 54.2 IP, 41/13, 1.35 WHIP) vs. TBD West Tenn: RHP Sean Gallagher (WT debut; Daytona: 4-0, 2.30 ERA, 78.1 IP, 80/21, 1.23 WHIP) vs. LHP Jeff Housman (1-3, 2.85 ERA) Peoria: LHP Donnie Veal (4-3, 2.93 ERA, 67.2 IP, 80/37, 1.18 WHIP) @ RHP Vince Mazzaro (6-4, 4.52 ERA)

Please tell your team to go easy on ours.

It's on the front page ( http://www.northsidebaseball.com ). Here ya go: First 5 Picks Next 5 Picks

http://cubs.scout.com/2/539570.html Some tidbits: But my favorite:

Yeah, Williamson is supposed to pitch in relief today. Atkins throws a FB around 90-92, a change and a curve. The big thing with Atkins is his ability to change speeds and have great location on all of his pitches. Please give us a scouting report if you do go (and pics, if you can).