David

when was the last time the Cubs lost or any other Chicago team lost a real stud in their prime? I was really bothered when the Cubs lost Maddux. I wasnt shocked because everyone knew it was coming. It still bothers me that the Cubs screwed up so bad with a HoFer and then have the audacity to retire his number. I think the thing with Len is the shock of it. You always get the sense that relationships are ending no matter what level they are on. This completely floored me. Sosa was old and getting bad, but the team's treatment of him was(and still is) really gross. this is probably my answer as to who i was saddest about when and how they left. i haven't thought real hard about it, though.

i didn't care at all about sports when that happened and i'm old as balls by internet standards (but not so much by this board's standards)

losing len hurt me more than any chicago athlete leaving ever has. i guess we all just assumed that he would be here for a very long time. when was the last time the Cubs lost or any other Chicago team lost a real stud in their prime? I was really bothered when the Cubs lost Maddux. I wasnt shocked because everyone knew it was coming. It still bothers me that the Cubs screwed up so bad with a HoFer and then have the audacity to retire his number. I think the thing with Len is the shock of it. You always get the sense that relationships are ending no matter what level they are on. This completely floored me. wait you were mad that the cubs retired maddux's number? who tf cares?

yep this is all it was. knew it would play out this way once they said there was no guarantee.

big no thanks on fitzgerald

i mean, take whatever you want from 2020, i guess. there are lot of reasons it's extremely weird and noisy, but obviously that doesn't mean you just can just wave away KB and Javy's performance. if their numbers are representative of much going forward, yes, that is very bad. can only wait and see - whether they're here or elsewhere.

from 2016 forward, some guys didn't develop into what we thought (mainly schwarber), some had some injuries, heyward turned out as badly as it could, quintana wasn't what we expected and darvish had a wasted year and a half. lester got old. zobrist got old and retired. few other things went wrong too, but i'd say blunted/early aging curves for the young guys is far from the top of the list. maybe heyward qualifies, if you want to call it that? other than 2020, KB has been mostly great while missing time from time to time, Rizzo has pretty much been Rizzo, Javy took a massive leap forward (again, aside from 2020), and contreras has only gotten better. russell did go from a thing to nothing - there were obviously some unusual horsefeathers circumstances (him being a complete piece of garbage) that probably were involved with him falling off the map, but that was sort of offset by javy going full superstar. we'll see if 2020 was a blip or not for him. mostly i think it was fowler going, zobrist getting older and going and the pitchers getting old/mediocre. It's winter of 2016. Someone asks you "How many times in the next four seasons are Kris Bryant and Anthony Rizzo going to match or surpass their fWAR/game production from this season when they are 24 and 25 respectively." I say "zero." You were going to be fine with that prediction? match or surpass? sure. would never have considered that even a little implausible (or necessarily bad). and we knew the old conventional wisdom age 27 prime/peak wasn't a thing anymore 10 years ago. if that's the argument you're making, cool, i guess.

from 2016 forward, some guys didn't develop into what we thought (mainly schwarber), some had some injuries, heyward turned out as badly as it could, quintana wasn't what we expected and darvish had a wasted year and a half. lester got old. zobrist got old and retired. few other things went wrong too, but i'd say blunted/early aging curves for the young guys is far from the top of the list. maybe heyward qualifies, if you want to call it that? other than 2020, KB has been mostly great while missing time from time to time, Rizzo has pretty much been Rizzo, Javy took a massive leap forward (again, aside from 2020), and contreras has only gotten better. russell did go from a thing to nothing - there were obviously some unusual shitty circumstances (him being a complete piece of garbage) that probably were involved with him falling off the map, but that was sort of offset by javy going full superstar. we'll see if 2020 was a blip or not for him. mostly i think it was fowler going, zobrist getting older and going and the pitchers getting old/mediocre.

if we still did sigs i'd totally sig this

for what it's worth, anybody who follows local chicago sports media would have heard len frequently talk about his love for radio and his desire to do radio (usually would come up when he'd be doing cubs playoff games with pat and ron) someday. it's definitely not some conveniently made up backstory unless he was playing the realllllllly long game. does that mean i think marquee's management or the ricketts had nothing to do with it? no. but i think the people viewing this story most cynically aren't locals who follow a lot of this stuff (i.e. to have heard len on his frequent radio hits, or to hear the other local guys talk about him, many who had close friendships with him like matt spiegel who played at hot stove cool music with him and stuff like that)

As did I, and here we are with Schwarbs and Jorge with the Royals (although that trade was fine). and three straight NLCS appearances when i had previously seen one and a horsefeathering world series ring on all their fingers so basically you're trying to argue that we should give the white sox extra credit for not having failed yet? i only raise it this way because you're the one who wants to use hindsight.

national TV guys watched our young dongsmiths in absolute awe and disbelief

SUPERTHREAD WARNING: So you think the Cubs had a better core in 2015 than the White Sox do now? I didn’t think that would be too controversial (particularly on a Cubs board). You had two top 5 prospects in the game (Bryant and Russell), Rizzo, the #4 pick in the draft who had destroyed the minors (Schwarber), another top 25/top 50 prospect (Javy), Soler, Contreras in the pipeline, Arrieta and Lester at the top of the rotation, plus Hendricks. right, they had all that, won 97 games and advanced in the playoffs twice, then won 103 games and the horsefeathering world series, so yeah both in hindsight and at the time it's pretty safe to say.

Right. The White Sox have a bright future, but they’re not quite on the “budding dynasty” level that some seem to place them at. The Cubs had a better core in 2015 and, five years later, people are acting like the organization is in shambles. Baseball is becoming more and more of a young player’s game, and the windows are getting smaller unless you’re actively replenishing a top 5 farm system. SUPERTHREAD WARNING: So you think the Cubs had a better core in 2015 than the White Sox do now? yes

You deny the interestingness of Kerry’s emergence or the Sandberg/Dawson/Maddux years? (Admittedly the latter’s best run was ‘89, but still...) Got me on Kerry Wood. Sandberg, Maddux and Dawson barely cause a blip in the 90’s for the Cubs. Henry horsefeathering Rodriguez has more resonance for me in that decade. Edit: You are bull [expletive] me. Surely. right. maddux's role in the 90s cubs narrative has much more to do with us letting him go and him [expletive] down our throats (and baseball's) every single year.

yeah the 90s cubs were nothing but pure abyss until 98 - and that was one season and just mostly cool thanks to two players. somehow, one of those teams got me started following baseball. still amazes me to this day when i look back at the rosters. some of those are only rivaled by the 2012-13 cubs teams.

The White Sox were the far more interesting team in the 90s and the first to crack the longterm WS drought in 2005 and never came close to overcoming the Cubs in popularity in any meaningful sense. They lost a lot of games in recent years and have a long run of sub 2 million attendance seasons as one of the worst teams in the worst division. They'll have to go on quite a run and keep the team together for the long haul and have the Cubs go back to a White Sox level of postseason droughts to make a dent. As a 90s kid I must protest. The 90s Sox were pretty cool, though you’d never have caught me admitting it back then. Frank Thomas, Robin Ventura, Ozzie, Ray Durham a little later...and they even had Carlton Fisk, one of the better catchers anyone will ever see. Bo Jackson and Tim Raines at times, Harold Baines, though none at their best by then. Ellis Burke, Jack McDowell, Julio Franco and John Kruk kind of randomly, among many others. These were good teams that could have gone far, and if not for the strike, really might have. But the best Chicago baseball in the 90s was absolutely the Cubs in the early 90s. Ryno, Andre, Greg Maddux, Rick Sutcliff, Shawon Duston, Frank Castillo, more journeyman 3bs than you could shake a stick at. George Bell too for a short time. Harry and Steve in their primes in the booth. A terrible beach boys self-parody on the telecast, Arne Harris getting shoutouts so often you felt like you knew him. And then the best moments later in the decade too, with Kerry’s emergence and 20 strikeout game, plus I guess Sammy’s rivalry and chase with McGwire for those more comfortable PEDs than I. Kerry was the bridge from the Ryno/Harry years through the letdowns in 03 and 04 and 07 and 08, all the way through to Rizzo and the rise of the generation we’re Joe starting to see move on. And not just that, but a damn good pitcher and example of perseverance too. I will freely admit to incrementally inching toward being a White Sox as well as a Cubs fan of late, abs listening to Len on Sox radio every now and again will only increase that. But no, as amazing as Frank Thomas was, and despite the powerhouse that those Sox teams were, they never held a candle to what was going on in Wrigley in the 90s... lol no those sox teams were way cooler than anything the cubs did in the 90s. some of your post seems tongue in cheek and some seems serious so i'm not sure how hard i should rail on this.

nah i mean, obviously different times, but the sox weren't able to pull that off even at the height of their popularity (in my lifetime) in the mid 90s (before everyone decided new comiskey sucked). could they get more attention for a bit if they are great and the cubs bottom out? maybe. but it would take those extremes and it would only be temporary. edit - i should've refreshed and read more posts.

sorry, i meant sontensei http://www.northsidebaseball.com/archive/search.php?author_id=15403&sr=posts

i think you guys are thinking of that saluki guy from 2015ish

this is a ridiculous comparison, andy masur is a nobody who started doing radio for the sox in 2018. i don't care for pat hughes but his status is on a completely different level. The point I'm making is that especially at the MLB level, broadcast jobs are in short supply and in order to get your dream gig you'll likely need to be cutthroat to some degree. I don't know that Len would have taken the Cubs radio job this year under these circumstances, but I find the 'Pat is a legend, he would NEVER' to be short of 100% convincing. well nevermind i was wrong LOL consider me firmly 100% in the camp that len would never want anything to do with a plan that could even conceivably be construed as him forcing out pat hughes.

He was okay with doing it to Andy Masur, so there's clearly a line that can be crossed even if he may not have done it for Pat. this is a ridiculous comparison. i don't care for pat hughes but his status is on a completely different level. i'm pretty sure tt was making a joke at andy masur's expense (and a little bit of a semi-troll playing off of his feelings on pat)

I’m more interested in learning more about how little the Cubs will get your attention *this time*. You could spend tens and tens of hours reading and posting about them in 2022 but this could be the last straw as well! not sure if you're mistaking me for Kyle or something. I never said I'm quitting them cold turkey. I had already cancelled my mlbtv subscription this past year. I'm not sure how much chatting about them on this website matters, but I've spent a lot more time on non-cubs threads. yeah. i dropped my season tickets a couple years ago. this feels like it's the only cubs related thread i've posted in more than 1 or 2 times since march. i never would've imagined i'd get to this level of apathy about this team within 4 years of 2016 and they're only pushing me away further.

from what i understand, sharma reported him as being the favorite, but i think gordo reported that it will be him. there's been no official announcement yet, though.

pat seems like a great guy and i like what i know of him as a person/personality. i have a few complaints about him as a PBP guy at this point, but it could be SO much worse. that said, i don't like coomer at all (and i've heard him make some mildly snarky comments that make me think he might be a covid truther - or maybe he's just pissed that they want to close his bar - so that's cool) so overall i kinda dislike our radio broadcast. the back and forth between them is entertaining, though. i just don't think coomer provides much good insight and also sounds like a goofy country bumpkin.