Transmogrified Tiger

Being critical of a signing, or predicting poor performance does NOT mean you do not want the player to succeed.

Good move by the Cards. He'll beat out Miles to play 2B.

Seriously? I go to Mizzou, I was making fun of how pathetic they are this year(or the state of the program, whatever). I can't believe you thought I was saying that they were equivalent ot SHS and Davidson. And for the gazillionth time, it's not the teams they've played, I only raised the question wondering how they will fare when they play the best players in the conference/country, and if Brown will bounce back to last year's production. If that means I'm bashing their competition at every turn, then I don't know what else I can say.

Which is why I put them on the same lower plane. If everytime someone brings up a valid criticism of Illinois you fly off the handle about how everyone hates Illinois, no one will take you seriously. Untrue. If I did, it wouldn't be because I have some deep seeded hatred for U of I. It'd be no different than wanting a new champion if Illinois, or OSU, or Penn St. had won the year before.

The TEAM, not Dee himself. is illinois THAT unlikelable of a team that everyone has to hope against hope for their downfall? they are the kings until supplanted, and i really don't think that MSU has the ability to beat them. indiana, granted, will offer more of a challenge with white and killingsworth down low, but it remains to be seen. I'm a Michigan State fan, am I not supposed to hope that they win? No one has responded to the point that they haven't played anyone on Ager or Davis or Killingsworth's level, and we don't know how they will fare against the best players without their losses from last year. IU has played Duke(Redick and Williams) and to a lesser extent Kentucky(Sparks and co.). MSU has played BC(Smith and Dudley), Gonzaga(Morrison and friends), and to a lesser extent Arizona(Adams and co.). All I'm trying to say is that Illinois is untested yet in that fashion. I've said multiple times that they may not have a problem with it, and may or probably will win the conference. The other point is that Brown hasn't performed to last year's level to date, and he may not return to last year's level because of the talent lost. It's a valid concern, just like MSU's defense thus far. I've been able to talk about MSU's lack of defense previously without getting super defensive, why can't it go both ways? are you forgetting that they beat UNC fairly easily in chapel hill? Fairly easily? I can't get the flowchart thing to come up, but they were tied at halftime and won by 4. That's irrelevant anyways, because Noel or Hansbrough aren't on the same plane as all the players mentioned in the previous post. That's the point. Good teams with star players, not just a borderline top 25 team. the game was really never in doubt, at least to me anyways. did you simply forget that you mentioned kentucky when lauding the blue-bloods' schedule, or are you doing it on purpose? in case you fogot, i'll remind you: kentucky got beat at rupp by UNC. why do you want anyone but illinois to have a good team? illinois is very respectable champion and the rest of the Big Ten should feel proud to be represented by such a classy program. "anyone but illinois! anyone but illinois!" and hansbrough and noel definitely are very superior college players. Are you even reading the posts anymore? How many times do I have to say that it doesn't mean that Illinois is bad, or that they won't win the Big 10? I just brought up a concern that they haven't faced any great players yet, and that Brown may not return to last year's levels? Is it possible to have a discussion or debate about it without acting like everyone's out to get Illinois? The point of including Kentucky(who I qualified with "to a lesser extent") was the star player, not the team. Had IU played UNC, I would've said the same thing about them. That's the point, the best that the Illini have played do not include any of the top of the line players. That's all, not "anyone but Illinois or any of that nonsense.

From an Orioles message board, some guy who talked with his "Cubs guy": "Tejada, Bedard for Hill, Patterson, Prior has been turned down by the Orioles about 8 times. Orioles refuse to do this deal without Pie. We want something like Prior, Pie, Hill for Bedard, Tejada. Cubs want a little something more, a reliever, julio might get it done."

The TEAM, not Dee himself. is illinois THAT unlikelable of a team that everyone has to hope against hope for their downfall? they are the kings until supplanted, and i really don't think that MSU has the ability to beat them. indiana, granted, will offer more of a challenge with white and killingsworth down low, but it remains to be seen. I'm a Michigan State fan, am I not supposed to hope that they win? No one has responded to the point that they haven't played anyone on Ager or Davis or Killingsworth's level, and we don't know how they will fare against the best players without their losses from last year. IU has played Duke(Redick and Williams) and to a lesser extent Kentucky(Sparks and co.). MSU has played BC(Smith and Dudley), Gonzaga(Morrison and friends), and to a lesser extent Arizona(Adams and co.). All I'm trying to say is that Illinois is untested yet in that fashion. I've said multiple times that they may not have a problem with it, and may or probably will win the conference. The other point is that Brown hasn't performed to last year's level to date, and he may not return to last year's level because of the talent lost. It's a valid concern, just like MSU's defense thus far. I've been able to talk about MSU's lack of defense previously without getting super defensive, why can't it go both ways? are you forgetting that they beat UNC fairly easily in chapel hill? Fairly easily? I can't get the flowchart thing to come up, but they were tied at halftime and won by 4. That's irrelevant anyways, because Noel or Hansbrough aren't on the same plane as all the players mentioned in the previous post. That's the point. Good teams with star players, not just a borderline top 25 team.

Reed, yes. Harvey, probably. Why can't I remember who Reed is....what's his first name? Mark, the catcher, Jeremy's brother.

Durability issue? Would Willis not have missed time if he took a line drive off the elbow? Would he not have missed time after trucking into Marcus Giles? Prior's missed time in '04 can be held against him for his legitimate injury, that's fine. But Prior has more IP than Willis, so it's not a sample size issue. He's been better in his career, and the durability is only a concern if the legitimate injury returns, which is only marginally more likely than Willis developing problems of his own with his motion.

The TEAM, not Dee himself. is illinois THAT unlikelable of a team that everyone has to hope against hope for their downfall? they are the kings until supplanted, and i really don't think that MSU has the ability to beat them. indiana, granted, will offer more of a challenge with white and killingsworth down low, but it remains to be seen. I'm a Michigan State fan, am I not supposed to hope that they win? No one has responded to the point that they haven't played anyone on Ager or Davis or Killingsworth's level, and we don't know how they will fare against the best players without their losses from last year. IU has played Duke(Redick and Williams) and to a lesser extent Kentucky(Sparks and co.). MSU has played BC(Smith and Dudley), Gonzaga(Morrison and friends), and to a lesser extent Arizona(Adams and co.). All I'm trying to say is that Illinois is untested yet in that fashion. I've said multiple times that they may not have a problem with it, and may or probably will win the conference. The other point is that Brown hasn't performed to last year's level to date, and he may not return to last year's level because of the talent lost. It's a valid concern, just like MSU's defense thus far. I've been able to talk about MSU's lack of defense previously without getting super defensive, why can't it go both ways?

22-10 with a WHIP of 1.13 at age 23 is plenty dominating. And his upside is the same as Prior's--the Hall of Fame. The fact that he doesn't strike out as many batters as Prior irrelevant; he gets batters out quicker, allowing him to go deeper into games than Prior. Florida wouldn't make the trade not because Willis is the face of the franchise but because Willis has been at least as effective over the last three years, is younger, and--most importantly--far more durable. Prior: Age 21: 122 ERA+ in 116.2 IP 22: 175 ERA+ in 211.1 IP 23: 113 ERA+ in 118.2 IP 24: 116 ERA+ in 166.2 IP Career: 132 ERA+ in 613.1 IP Willis: Age 21: 122 ERA+ in 160.2 IP 22: 102 ERA+ in 197 IP 23: 153 ERA+ in 236.1 IP Career: 124 ERA+ in 594 IP

Happens all the time. The Cubs did it with Alan Benes I believe.

That's a 10.55 K/9 for his career, insane. Also, I thought the batting line you posted were his numbers at the plate for a minute.

Did I miss something? Have they been good the last couple of years? And Prior has been injured or very mediocre during this time period. What is is that we are so desperatly holding onto? a .500 team? There is a whole lot of mediocrity by your standards. Prior had the ERA+ of a number one starter last year, in his supposed down year. He led the world in K/9. He wasn't historically good like in 2003, but when he pitches he's very good, not "very mediocre".

His average ERA+ the last 3 years is higher than Tejada's OPS+ the last 3 years. If he's not a superstar, Tejada isn't either.

Prior hasn't pitched like an "ace" except for 2003. Gotta put some blame on the guy too for the Game 6 choke against the Marlins. If that's part of the reason we trade him, then we are very very very very very very stupid as an organization.

It's almost comical. Prior's better at his position, he's 5 years younger, he's much cheaper. But hey, throw in Patterson and swap LHP and we'll call it a deal.

You think they're serious? The vast majority of people who say that sort of thing are blowing off steam. You'r probably right but it gets tiresome, day after day. I agree it's overused, to the point when that sort of thing should be effective(like when we're about to give away Prior) it comes off like it does.

Actually not a bad trade IF Guzman is truly over his injury problems. We get to keep Cedeno and Pie as well. If Guzman is not healthy, the deal ain't so great. Whether Guzman is healthy or not doesn't change the fact that we get absolutely fleeced. Hill and Bedard really aren't that different, Prior has a word I can't think of more value than Tejada, and we're throwing in Patterson. It's highway robbery.

You think they're serious? The vast majority of people who say that sort of thing are blowing off steam.

The TEAM, not Dee himself.

He's not as bad as some(the Score), but he's no Bruce Miles.

All those guys are or have the potential to be very good players, but Rickie Weeks? Sizemore, Utley, and Young all have had about one good season(Young one good at home and elsewhere). For all of Prior's "problems", he's still 25, and he's one of the most valuable commodities in baseball when healthy. If you trade him with the impression that he may not be healthy or value him such, you're better off keeping him since you won't get equal value.

You know Walt, if you're going to get an outfielder and hope they get hit with the magic BABIP stick, you may want to avoid the one that just put up his best BABIP season since he was in AA in 1997.

If Tejada is a superstar, then Prior is. Their numbers compared to the league are similar, and if anything favor Prior. OPS+ for Tejada Career: 112 Last 3 years: 125 ERA+ for Prior Career: 132 Last 3 years: 134 And Bedard, of the 103 ERA+ and career 1.50 WHIP, is average at best as a Major Leaguer to date.