XZero771679666304

Choi tanked before the injury. I think the vast majority of players in the game go through a stretch where they hit .200/minimal run production over 50 ab during the course of a 600 ab, 162 game season. Indeed. By they way... has Choi extracated himself from that tank yet ?? .809 OPS this year, still far better than Eric Karros against RH. Gmab w/the .809 ops. He's still not an everyday player. He rarely plays against lefties and Tracy sits him against certain righties. Play him everyday and he's probably in the mid-700's, if that. HE'S STILL BETTER THAN THE ALTERNATIVE THAT DUSTY PUT OUT THERE. Jeez, people are so quick to point out his lack of success on the whole that they forget that the "crappy" Choi WAS OUR BEST OPTION AGAINST RHP. Much like Neifi, Karros had a hot streak that bought him 2 months of bad play because of Dusty's wacked sense of loyalty. I liked Choi, but he was not great, but neither was Karros.

I like Neifi off the bench! I don't! He saved the Cubs after Nomar was injured. Are you being sarcastic? NO! What I meant was he did a great job of filling in, plus I like his defense. He did a great job filling in for just over a month. The rest of the season he has languished in the pathetic-below average range. The man is a bench player at best.

That's not what I read. An argument was being made that if someone from the infield should be traded it should be Lee (and not Walker) because we can get more for him. I think "if" was the operative word. He wasn't saying that we should trade Lee, just that if one had to be traded, Lee would net more in return.

I couldn't eat two bags of oreos, probably even one. And I love oreos. But I have consumed a gallon of milk in less than an hour before, twice. I also ate 9 bratwursts loaded with sauerkraut in less than half an hour, though it incapacitated me for the better part of the day. But I did the milk thing, and it wasn't all that difficult.

I drank a gallon of milk in far less than an hour when I was 16 and working at a grocery store, and my boss didn't suspend me..... :-k

Baker had very little to do with the success of the Cubs his first season. Every year since, this club has slipped bit by bit. So you hold him accountable for this year, but refuse to give him credit for his success? Face it, Hendry let him down bad at the beginning of the season. He replaced Sosa and Alou with Hollandsworth and Burnitz. He replaced Matt Clement with nobody. He made the bullpen worse (if that was possible) and he left the bench a disaster. But yes, keep telling yourself it is all Dusty's fault. Hendry is the one who should get the axe. Hendry hurt the bullpen, but Baker finshed it off. How much different might things have been if Dempster had been closing since the start of the season, with Hawkins and Fox (Dusty's fault) setting him up? That's what Hendry wanted, but Baker saw fit to put Hawk in the closer's role (where EVERYONE knew he would fail), Dempster in the rotation (where he was no good), and Rusch in the bullpen. What a freaking waste. How much sense did that make? And it ruined what might have been at least a decent pen. Burnitz has been better than Sosa, but Hendry did mess up not replacing Alou. But Baker messed up just as bad by playing Holla when it was clear he stunk, and players like Dubois (who was marginally better, but better) and Murton festered on the bench. How about using his two worst OBP players in the 1-2 holes for the better part of a month, when Walker was avilable? Dumbassery. As for the rotation, going into the season with a rotation of Prior, Wood, Zambrano, Maddux and Rusch was nothing to complain about, so you can't fault Jim for not replacing Clement. The bench has been a bit of a mess to say the least, but Perez playing through June and July (when he was flat out terrible), using Macias as the first bat off the bench, starting Holla when his strength is as a bench player, etc. has not helped matters any. But you just keep telling yourself it's all Hendry's fault. Both are equally at fault, but Baker is just a poor manager. Like it has been said in this thread, the 2003 playoff run was due to Wood, Prior, Z and Clement. Prior and Wood pitched on a whole other level for two straight months, and we still barely made it. Remember Lenny Harris leading off? Just many in a series of boneheaded Baker moves that got lost in the playoff fervor. The point is that the 2003 season wasn't really Baker's success. He messed up that year, but the rotation pitched like they never have before or since and bailed Dusty out. Dusty has always made his living riding on the coattails of great players and great performances. Matt Williams, Bonds, Kent, Aurilia (when he was good), Robb Nen, Billy Swift, John Burkett, Kerry Wood, Prior, Z, Clement...Dusty has benefitted from the best seasons all and more than they had to offer. And since Dusty likes to let "players police themselves" or delegate to his coaches (That's Larry's department"), you can't credit his coaching for their successes. No matter what he or anyone else says, the total lack of fundamentals, pateince at the plate, etc. reflects on him. He is the man in charge of the house, and it is poorly run, to be kind. You set much adversity in his way, and his teams fold like a lawn chair, as we have seen first hand. So why in the world would we give him a free pass for two years of blatant mismanagement because of one season theat wasn't that great (88 wins doesn't get you in most years) that he had little to do with? Please. I know we all get some warm fuzzies thinking about the pre-game 6 2003 season, but let's not let that cloud our judgement. Dusty wasn't that good then, and he sure isn't now. Hendry isn't with out his very large share of blame, but assigning Bakers share to Jim is patently ridiculous. Dusty has not made the best out of the hand he was dealt, or anywhere even close. If we win next year and Dusty is still in charge, it wil be in spite of him unless he totally overhauls his approach.

I vote for Raffy too, but while Mark hasn't been caught for anything, he really damaged himself with his performance on capital hill. Personally, I believe he juiced. But fwiw, I think Sammy did as well (and have always been a huge fan of Sosa). Of course, that is just my opinion.

No way would I have an open air stadium in Minneapolis. A lot of rainouts (and some snowouts) and miserable games. April and October games? Brrrrr.

No heart attack today.

Colorado announcers: "Fuentes doesn't even need to mess around here. Just throw him sliders and get it overwith." :evil: :evil:

Colorado announcers still drooling over Kerry's stuff. :lol:

how close was that ball to a hr? Very. Lawton caught it just before he hit the wall. That said, it was a Coors pop-up.

I don't have that option, unfortunately.

The Colorado announcers said he was running before the pitch was delivered.

Colorado TV announcers: "That's ridiculous. Kerry Wood is ridiculous." :lol:

Yeah, that much I knew. I guess I should've asked what the %$#@! Patterson was doing. He was running with the pitch.

I thought he did try? Blanco should have kept his friggin bat on his shoulder. Did someone miss a call? Probably. It's just one of the many blunders the Cubs seem to repeat over and over.

Unacceptable. What difference does it make? Strikeouts are outs, and every team makes 27 or more of them a game. It's the hits and walks that matter.

:shock: =D> Couldn't have said it better myself.

No, it means he is efficent with his pitches throwing deep into a ballgame that doesn't equate to him not being abused. The only way you can tell if a pitcher is or isn't being abused is thru sight. I haven't watched all of his starts, so I can't you tell if he's been left put there while fatigued, the low pitch counts decrease the odds but guarantee nothing. You can tell if a manager/PC is being careless by leaving a pitcher in there despite the score. Baker was terrible with this w/Zambrano last year and it appears LaRussa has been with Carpenter at times. Ahh, I knew there was a reason I watched every game this year, save a few! Given that criteria, I can tell you that Marquis has definitely been abused this year, Morris not too far behind him. The last time I saw Carp fatigued, working slowly, or laboring was his blow up against Philly in April. I only trust my eyes in this regard, I put my trust into a PC if I'm unable to watch the game. But, I've seen so many pitchers abused at the HS level in cold weather. Marquis was abused again tonight, eyes witnessed it. You're not the only one who has noticed.

And 4 of those losses the Astros scored 0 runs. What exactly did you want out of Clemens? A 10 inning (or more) shutout so that the Stros could finally score a run? Nope. Clemens did all he could. But if your team loses, how much value did you provide your team that day? There's no value in losing. Again, not Clemens' fault, but his team could have gotten the exact same ultimate results if you or I had been pitching that day, so what good did he do them? The Cy Young award is for the best pitcher, not the best pitcher in the context of his team. This isn't the MVP. Who has dominated the opposition with the most consistency? That is your award winner. You can make an argument for how valuable a player is to his team for the MVP, but nowhere in the description f the Cy Young does it say anything about value, just performance. And Roger has performed better than Carpenter. Hypothetically, a great pitcher can make 35 starts for a team with no offense, and go something like 10-15 with a 1.00 ERA and .70 WHIP. Another pitcher can go 25-5 with a 2.50 ERA and 1.20 WHIP for a team that scores him a load of runs. Do you punish the better pitcher because his team can't score? No, you give him the award because he was better. You would think so, but that's not at all what happened last year. It seems to me that the voters are willing to use whatever logic is convenient for Clemens. Hey, I was all for RJ winning the Cy last year. Zambrano was even more deserving, numbers-wise. Clemens just happens to deserve it this time.

I suggest Tony start pulling Carp after 6 innings from here on out, unless the game is in doubt, and regardless of how Chris feels about it. I would rest him for at least two starts in Sept, as you say will be done. I would also do this for Morris, who looks like crap lately. With as big a lead as you have, both in the division and for home field, and with the Astros leveling off, I can't think of one good reason to keep going full bore, even in August. Why 6 innings? Are innings more important than pitch counts? Why so literal? I agree with what xzero's saying, we need to back off the pedal with Carp. If it's a blow out game, take Carp out. Even if it's not, I also agree we have nothing to gain and everything to lose. He's not a show pony, he's a key component to a deep playoff run. You get it. K-Town either doesn't or doesn't want to (or is just being difficult). This is just common sense.

So what do you suggest? You think the Cards should shut down a perfectly healthy pitcher for the rest of the season? The Cards are making a point to give ALL of their starters an extra day off here and there (as I've already explained). After September call-ups, they'll probably get even MORE rest. As for the Kerry Wood comparison, I think that most experts agree that his mechanics are horrible, and that's why he's hurt all the time. To my knowledge, Carpenter's mechanics are very good, so I'm not sure that I'd be overly worried. the time for suggestion has long since passed, and that's the point. LaRussa blew the chance to save his arm for the stretch run. I don't see how the starters have gotten extra days rest when only one start has been made from someone not on the five man. don't forget too that they went with a four man for the first couple weeks of the season. I personally don't think going to a six man rotation is the greatest idea ever either. as for the Kerry Wood comparison, assuming what you say is true, shouldn't you be concerned that someone with "very good" mechanics seems to get injured all the time, especially since those are arm injuries and not fluke injuries (ala Prior). Player A - bad mechanics, injury history, injury cause can be corrected; Player B - very good mechanics, injury history, what can be done to predict and prevent injuries? He doesn't get injured "all the time". He missed part of 2002 and all of 2003 because of surgery. Other than that, he's pitched over 150 innings every full year of his career. He had a fluky nerve problem last September, but it had nothing to do with his workload. He's no more of an injury risk than anybody else. Furthermore, how do you come up with "8+ years"? He was brought up in '97 (for 1/2 year) '98 '99 '00 '01 '02 '03 '04 That's 7 years. He went down midway through '02, and missed all of '03. Other than that, he's pitched 150 innings or more every single year. Wood has pitched 150 innings only 4 times in his career. 150 innings isn't the mark of a full season. For a starter, 32-35 starts and 180+ innings is a full season. Missing a start hurts your team more than going an inning or two less. This is Carp's eighth season, although it isn't over yet. Carpenters # of starts: 13, 24, 24, 27, 34, 13, 0, 28, and 24 this year. The man has a history of missing starts. If you average Carpenter's seasons, minus his first half season and missed season he averages: 25 starts and 162 innings. If you do the same for Wood, you get 30 starts and 175 innings. Neither is great, but Wood has been more durable, up until this season.

This thread is a joke, so I'm not going to mess with it. However, I did want to point out that this statement is completely untrue. Pitchers do NOT come back stronger. Sometimes they come back throwing harder than they did immediately before their surgery, but this is due to the fact that these injuries don't happen overnight. They get worse and worse over time, and by the time they actually have to have the surgery, they're down from where they once were already. Isn't just another way of saying what I said? Not really. He was saying that a pitcher comes back stronger than he was immediately before his injury, but not as good or better than their previous top form. If a pitcher is worn down by injury at the end of a season, has surgery, and comes back stronger, does that mean he is the strongest he has ever been? No, the injury has permenantly decreased his ability. Since Carpenter has always been fragile, saying he is stonger than immediately before his injury says very little. The original point was that you don't worry about surgery repurcussions 3 years after the surgery. Do you? Yes. I still worry about Kerry's elbow, and he is 6 years removed. Having 2 reconstructive surgeries is not unheard of. Scott Williamson can attest to that. You should always give a little extra consideration to a player who has had major surgery in the past if you can afford to, and the Cardinals can.

I suggest Tony start pulling Carp after 6 innings from here on out, unless the game is in doubt, and regardless of how Chris feels about it. I would rest him for at least two starts in Sept, as you say will be done. I would also do this for Morris, who looks like crap lately. With as big a lead as you have, both in the division and for home field, and with the Astros leveling off, I can't think of one good reason to keep going full bore, even in August.