Soul

You're welcome, Semantics Police. Edit: For the record, the Sun-Times article title is "Grace says Sosa's bulk had to be artificial" Is that any different than what I wrote. It clearly states Grace accused Sosa of artifcial enhancement. Sorry--not trying to single out anyone, this should apply to me as well and everyone else. It's too bad the Sun-Times feels the need to sensationalize their reporting by misrepresenting the article contents in the title line. We don't need to fall into that same trap. This particular article is extremely bad. How can they say Grace is saying Sosa HAD to have used steroids, when the article couches everything in the "speculation" category? That's ridiculous. If the Sun-Times wants to lie to its readers, that's their business. We shouldn't follow suit.

Please be careful when you title a thread that it isn't a lie. Thank you.

:lol: :lol: I literally didn't read a single post on this thread, just saw the Steroidfield pic. That was funny 8)

It was successful----that's a bad thing though.

i don't think this is true. i think the burden of proof is actually on bonds, and bonds has to prove malicious intent, which he almost certainly can't, whether he took steroids or not. I'm not a lawyer but I'm guessing malice is not relevant in the case of true statements. Plenty of malicious statements have been printed about Josef Stalin, who has living relatives, but you can be sure none of Stalin's relatives will ever sue for libel because the malicious statements about him are true. i guess i worded that badly. malice definitely is not relevant in the case of true statements. The general rule is that dead guys cannot sure for defamation - be it slander or libel. If Bonds wanted to bring a case against the authors, then the authors would be the defendants. That means the burden of proof would be on *BONDS* to prove they lied, it was malicious, etc. Defendants don't have to prove their innocence in this country.

I heard a rumor that Griese to the Bengals is a done deal. Monday's visit to the Bears is just a formality. Again, just a rumor.....

We have Conte in a 60-minutes interview saying it was a calender to lay out which drugs to take at which times. I mean, what do we want? Someone to walk up to us with the actual documents so we can have a personal look? Even then, the docs could have been altered before we saw them... It's asking for absolute proof. And that kind of proof seldom comes around. What we're left with is a mountain of circumstancial evidence, the testimony of several players in the whole deal, TV interviews, books that put it together, etc. It's enough. Sure, there's an outside chance it's all wrong----maybe everyone's lying because they don't like Barry. It's not very likely, but yeah it's possible. But it's enough evidence for a reasonable person to conclude he did it--which you seem to be leaning toward. I'm definitely already there.

About freaking time. This is a policy I would like to see the Cubs adopt for almost all pitcher injuries but especially with Prior. While they're at it, they should turn some of that shock therapy on Dusty's freaking head. Glad to hear they are trying something. That IS positive.

Anderson was Bonds trainer it could be his work-out schedule. Not saying it was but the only option isn't just steroids for that calendar. I thought there were others who looked at that calendar and knew right away what each letter meant----from experience. Actually, I thought it was Conti who knew. http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/14050067.htm Anyhow, it's more circumstancial evidence. Granted, it's not absolute proof like a video tape of Bonds injecting himself. But circumstancial evidence also counts...

Does anybody really believe in 7-10 days he'll be back throwing and everything will be fine? I believe he'll be throwing in 7-10 days, that can range from throwing 5 10 feet on up. But, he won't be fine. He still has a long ways to go before he's ready to face opposing hitters ate the level expected from him. I'm still not seeing anything positive. There's absolutely no assurance this won't continue to come back. It started after mild throwing with a towel and a couple simu-games. That's not very encouraging. Being objective about it, I would say this will likely haunt him the entire season. They aren't even really treating it at all. Instead, they are simply resting it. Prior already had months of rest. 7-10 days more isn't likely to magically cure this problem. If someone can show how this is a one-time incident only, I would gladly re-assess. But as of now, I see nothing that says this won't continue to come back.

.....which when I look at how this season is shaping up, might not have been a bad thing.

Bonds did not admit that at all, nor did the government prove that what he did take was steroids. Go back and look at the articles and show me where it says that Bonds did the substances known as the cream and the clear. Show me where Bonds knows either before or after he took them that there were steroids in them. So far up to this points Bonds has stated that there are no steroids in him nor has he ever taken them. He has never said that he unknowingly took them or knowingly took them. Nor has the government ever actually made a direct link of steroid and bonds. They have evidence for sure but there is no smoking gun. No Bonds purchased the drugs, no Anderson saying I saw Bonds take the drugs, nothing. What we have is BALCO selling drugs to Anderson and then the assumption that the drugs are for Bonds. It may very well be true but the government has not been able to make that connection yet. If they had then Bonds would be indicted by now, he has not been. Am I defending BOnds? No, I think he used steroids, I also don't care that he used steroids. But the point isn't what we think but what we "know" and what we can prove. This is about law and order. I wanted Barry BOnds to have the full protection of the law and rules that govern us. Because if somebody like him, somebody who everyone wants to "get" is protected from improper processing then that means I am protected as well, an innocent. Lynch mobs maybe expediate and may even solve a problem in the short run but when a society sets asides its laws and procedure for the sake of expediance then no one is safe in that society from the lynch mob. Obviously this board is all about opinions.....I'm giving you mine. A jury sends a murderer to his death based on their *opinion* of the evidence, too. I'm telling you that, in my opinion, based on the evidence we have available to us now, there's proof beyond a reasonable doubt Bonds took steroids. Do I "know"? No, I don't know. That would be proof beyond all doubt (see Palmiero). But when I look at the case against Barry Bonds as it stands right now: in my opinion that's proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Just like in the case against Pete Rose we didn't absolutely KNOW until he confessed. But the circumstancial case against him was strong. Not entirely the same thing here, but it's similar.

Incredible. Not one Big 10 team through to the Sweet 16!

....but the real point is, Prior developed shoulder soreness after throwing with a towel for a couple weeks. That has to be a massive concern. What will happen when he puts real pressure on that shoulder?

His W-L record isn't really the issue. At all. or any pitcher for that matter. BTW dont dismiss record completely it does factor in, it is the ultimate measure of success. I know it isnt something the pitcher has complete control over, but in the end it doesnt matter if you had 200 plus strikeouts and a great ERA, if you didnt win games you werent a success. Also when you look at the numbers it is a strong indicator of success in wins, if you have the above stats then you most likely will have a good record, but it doesnt guarentee it. A W is all that matters at the end of the day. I may very well be wrong, but thats just how I feel :D W-L is not a primary stat in determining a pitcher's worth. That's pretty well documented. The problem is, voters still use it for things like the Cy Young, All-Star game, and even the Hall of Fame to some degree. It may not be the primary factor, but it is still looked at. So as long as people factor it in, it will continue to be mentioned.

I knew when I saw everyone had Illinois on their lists, it was going to be trouble. You all need to learn the art of reverse psychology! No seriously, when I saw they would run into a #5 in the round of 32 I sort of mentally circled that matchup "this could be trouble."

Oh God please no, not the dreaded "we're going to let it quiet down" treatment. :?

Give Ryu and/or Guzman a shot. Hendry tried all offseason to find another starter. Didn't work. It's unlikely he will find a quality one now.

It doesn't say anything about our players that they lost. That's silly. Our guys aren't even in ST form yet, to say nothing of being in mid-season form, or post season form. And that's precisely why the way the WBC is set up isn't good. We've got alot of important players going full-bore in March, before they are traditionally ready to play. I suppose players could start preparing themselves earlier-----but then why have ST at all? And besides, after a long 6-month season of 162 ballgames + playoffs, I can totally understand ballplayers wanting to take a little time off. Which is probably why so many refused to play the WBC. They knew they would have to sacrifice some of their downtime, or else risk injury. That's a hell of a position to put players in, especially when you've got teams like Cuba who are primed and ready to play from the get-go. I'm glad some people are enjoying this, but it's got alot of problems.

Damn, I was right to be worried about Illinois :cry:

It's so easy to pile on Prior now, after he has had some problems. And to try and sell books & product off the injury of a player----that's just sick. That idiot should be taken out and beaten with a stick.

With all due respect, that's ridiculous. Bonds admitted to taking the clear and the cream, and the government established what those substances were. That's why Bonds came up with the story about not knowing what was in them. And that story has now been impeached by a recent book. You aren't seriously trying to defend Bonds (just curious)? Do what you like, but it's....inadvisable. He juiced to the max for several seasons, there's such little doubt about this it isn't even funny.

That's an excuse. Nobody can say how his MLB club would have handled him in ST. Nobody can say what would have happened or would not have happened. Stick with facts (see above).

The huge difference in steals between Pierre and Hairston didn't make up the huge difference in OBP that Hairston had over Pierre last year. Hairston was a better leadoff hitter last year than Pierre. What if Hairston starts at 2B and hits 2nd in the order, are the Cubs still in trouble? I should qualify that. I think we're in dire trouble regardless. That said, I'd much rather have Walker playing 2nd and hitting 2nd than Hairston. I'd rather Hairston come off the bench.

Totally and completely accurate. But that doesn't mean that the injury would NOT have happened if he had NOT participated in the WBC. It is faulty logic to state that the WBC is WHY he is hurt. It's like saying tall women are attractive -- Jane Doe is tall -- therefore Jane is attractive. He came into the WBC off arm surgery, he pitched in the WBC, he was hurt. I sincerely doubt that pitching in the WBC or pitching in spring training wouldn't have resulted in the same thing. I go back to what I said earlier. I don't think that the Nats are 'in bounds' by blaming the WBC. If I'm a player coming off surgery in the last 12 mos., as strong as the siren song of playing for your country may be, I'd have to think long and hard what that may mean for my career. And I don't blame the Nats for being angry -- I just don't agree with the logic that stats that there is a direct correlation between participating in the WBC leading to injury. In fact, I think that teams angry at the lack of playing time for some of their players, or those players who find themselves behind in position battles to have a more legitmate beef with the WBC. But to jump into a form of elite competition after arm surgery without listening to your employer? Well that's just bloody stupid. Understood. But it puts these guys in a bad position. We might not understand it here in the US, but it can be pretty difficult to face your countrymen after having bowed out of representing them. Any injury that happens in the WBC can be excused by saying "it might have happened in spring training, too." I'm not going to go there. Instead, I'm going to call those injuries that take place in WBC games, WBC injuries. I agree it wasn't a good idea for him to pitch. I also think it illustrates what the WBC brings to the baseball landscape: added pressure to compete, the added wear and tear of full-force competition for an extra month.