Soul

It's so easy to pile on Prior now, after he has had some problems. And to try and sell books & product off the injury of a player----that's just sick. That idiot should be taken out and beaten with a stick.

With all due respect, that's ridiculous. Bonds admitted to taking the clear and the cream, and the government established what those substances were. That's why Bonds came up with the story about not knowing what was in them. And that story has now been impeached by a recent book. You aren't seriously trying to defend Bonds (just curious)? Do what you like, but it's....inadvisable. He juiced to the max for several seasons, there's such little doubt about this it isn't even funny.

That's an excuse. Nobody can say how his MLB club would have handled him in ST. Nobody can say what would have happened or would not have happened. Stick with facts (see above).

The huge difference in steals between Pierre and Hairston didn't make up the huge difference in OBP that Hairston had over Pierre last year. Hairston was a better leadoff hitter last year than Pierre. What if Hairston starts at 2B and hits 2nd in the order, are the Cubs still in trouble? I should qualify that. I think we're in dire trouble regardless. That said, I'd much rather have Walker playing 2nd and hitting 2nd than Hairston. I'd rather Hairston come off the bench.

Totally and completely accurate. But that doesn't mean that the injury would NOT have happened if he had NOT participated in the WBC. It is faulty logic to state that the WBC is WHY he is hurt. It's like saying tall women are attractive -- Jane Doe is tall -- therefore Jane is attractive. He came into the WBC off arm surgery, he pitched in the WBC, he was hurt. I sincerely doubt that pitching in the WBC or pitching in spring training wouldn't have resulted in the same thing. I go back to what I said earlier. I don't think that the Nats are 'in bounds' by blaming the WBC. If I'm a player coming off surgery in the last 12 mos., as strong as the siren song of playing for your country may be, I'd have to think long and hard what that may mean for my career. And I don't blame the Nats for being angry -- I just don't agree with the logic that stats that there is a direct correlation between participating in the WBC leading to injury. In fact, I think that teams angry at the lack of playing time for some of their players, or those players who find themselves behind in position battles to have a more legitmate beef with the WBC. But to jump into a form of elite competition after arm surgery without listening to your employer? Well that's just bloody stupid. Understood. But it puts these guys in a bad position. We might not understand it here in the US, but it can be pretty difficult to face your countrymen after having bowed out of representing them. Any injury that happens in the WBC can be excused by saying "it might have happened in spring training, too." I'm not going to go there. Instead, I'm going to call those injuries that take place in WBC games, WBC injuries. I agree it wasn't a good idea for him to pitch. I also think it illustrates what the WBC brings to the baseball landscape: added pressure to compete, the added wear and tear of full-force competition for an extra month.

I won't go into much detail as why the Cubs leadoff hitters of '05 being replaced by Pierre is nowhere near the impact of replacing a below avg corner OF'er (Jones) with the greatest single season in MLB history (Bonds of '01). But, Patterson was hitting leadoff less than 25% of the time last year as Hairston led the Cubs in leadoff ABs with 306. Hairston of '05 had an OBP of .342 leading off. Pierre in '05 had an OBP of .322 leading off. If the Cubs would've given Hairston the chance to start and leadoff (when he wasn't injured) more than likely would've been better off with Hairston leading off than Pierre last year. For his career, Pierre has a .355 OBP, which isn't too far off of what I'd expect fron Hairston. To put it in perspective, if the Cubs went w/Hairston (CF) and Walker (2B) over Pierre (CF) and Perez (2B), the Cubs would be better off offensively with Hairston and Walker. Pierre is the best option at leadoff currently, but this offense won't make any dramatic improvements b/c of him, especially if Perez gets a fair share of ABs hitting 2nd. Having Murton for a full season will have a greater impact on this offense than Pierre. Baker could've easily negated the gaping hole with the 1-2 hitters if he could've put together a decent batting order last year. Hairston doesn't steal a base like Pierre, UK. Hairston is junk. He's done nothing since coming here except play spot duty at positions we would have needed much better talent to succeed. If he leads off/starts @ 2nd, we're in trouble.

Agreed. He pitched to just one batter in the game against the US and just one other inning the entire WBC. There was something wrong with his arm and his time in the WBC had nothing to do with it. Speculation. The fact is, he incurred the injury playing in the WBC. Nobody can say what would have happened if he was pitching warm-up innings in Spring Training as opposed to going full-bore in the WBC. He may have had better supervision in Spring Training too---which may well helped lessen the severity of the injury. Or maybe not. Impossible to say, but he got injured playing in the WBC so it's a WBC injury. It's also speculation to say he wouldn't have died on the field if he was in ST. Dumb speculation, but speculation nonetheless. The Nats are covering their ass since they overworked him last year, and now they can just avoid all blame and push it on the WBC. Call it what you want. Facts: 1) He was playing in the WBC. 2) He got injured while playing in the WBC. 3) Therefore, it was a WBC injury.

I'm worried about Illinois today.

He's a leadoff man who has had success in the league AS a leadoff man. That right there makes him an upgrade. The last time we had that was the 2nd half of 2003---which was also, perhaps not coincidentally, the last time we went to the playoffs.

Agreed. He pitched to just one batter in the game against the US and just one other inning the entire WBC. There was something wrong with his arm and his time in the WBC had nothing to do with it. Speculation. The fact is, he incurred the injury playing in the WBC. Nobody can say what would have happened if he was pitching warm-up innings in Spring Training as opposed to going full-bore in the WBC. He may have had better supervision in Spring Training too---which may well helped lessen the severity of the injury. Or maybe not. Impossible to say, but he got injured playing in the WBC so it's a WBC injury.

yes, but is Lee projected to miss any regular season games? He may be banged up, but Ayala is a full year deal (maybe longer depending on his recovery time from Tommy John...) True. Lee's injury was more of a ding. But it will push back his training schedule, as any injury would.

I don't really have a strong feeling for him, one way or the other. I think it's interesting that not ONE critic of Pierre commented on these numbers. The main reason is because those stats have no bearing whatsoever on the converstation. They were illustritive that Pierre saw pitches and made contact, nothing else. No, it's because the massive, wideranging anti-Pierre conspiracy made sure the truth was squelched.

You do realize Steve Stone isn't a doctor, never gives any real solid baseball information when interviewed, usually gives vague answeres to specific questions and has a Paul Bunyan sized axe to grind with the Cubs, right? And he is negative about everything so considering he is commenting about the Cubs has a better than average chance of being right even if he has no clue what he is talking about. Does Stoney speak different on the radio than he does for say his ESPN games? I watched an ESPN game last year and he had nothing but positive things to say about the Cubs -- AND they weren't even playing in the game. There is no doubt in my mind that Stoney is one of the biggest Cubs homers around and it is pretty pathetic that both sides can't let it drop. The Cubs do themselves no good by trying running out of town an analyst who was simply frustrated with a bad team and spoke his mind on the air. There also seems to be a pattern of publicly disgracing anyone who disagrees with them or whom they don't like. My guess is that once Walker is traded we will hear every negative thing that he has done since donning a Cubs uniform. Maybe they even have video surviellance of him leaving a game early, etc. Oh, do not get me wrong. The Cubs have become a PR joke, with the way they tend to handle news and react to things. To answer your question about Stone, he is on WSCR about 3-4 times a week, and is generally critical, snide, and smart alecked about it. I can understand the critical, but it's in the tone of his delivery that smacks of sour grapes and immaturity. Maybe he's playing to his audience/host, since they all tend to be pretty negative about the Cubs. The other thing I don't like is that he typically doesn't offer much insight when he answeres a question. Well, in Stoney's defense, when he's on WSCR its with Boers & Bernstein. Their whole schtick is to be snide and sarcastic, so Stoney falls right into it each time. I, too, have had occasion to listen to Stoney's analysis in other forums and he isn't nearly so caustic.

I'm glad some people are enjoying it, don't get me wrong. But we knew it would cause MLB teams to lose some players, and that has now happened. It will be interesting to see what happens next year. If I'm a GM, I start looking at building "no WBC" clauses into some players' contracts, if possible. BTW---he's not the first WBC casualty. Derek Lee was also injured playing in the WBC.

No, that was just really expensive take out. Chinese.

Yeah, I think there's probably something to be said for the fact that Sosa was able to get away in the offseason to do what he wanted away from the prying eyes of the big-time media. Still though, if he juiced he would have to have continued during the season because 6-months is too long to be without...

Here's the rundown of proof, as it stands right now IMO: Canseco: celebrates the fact that he took 'em. Gotta love a guy who just doesn't give a damn. Well, you actually *don't* have to love him, but Canseco is the most refreshing of the bunch IMHO. Proof by confession. Palmiero: proven through a test. Caught red-handed. Proof beyond all doubt. Bonds: proven through his testimony, in which he admits they were in his system but claims someone rooked him into thinking it wasn't steroids. The new book pretty much yanks that rug out from under him. It's proof beyond a reasonable doubt. McGwire: proven because he pretty much took the 5th (not total proof I understand, but we're not talking about prison here and when you take the 5th a preponderance of evidence now shifts against you. Which incidentally is why you are not allowed to take the 5th in a civil trial where only a preponderance is required......but I digress). Proof by a preponderance of the evidence. Sosa: no testimony proving he took it (had a lawyer speak for him in Congress, which in retrospect was very smart), no positive drug test, and he did not take the 5th. There is anectodal evidence he took it; the stats, and his change in body weight. But not proof (yet). I will wait for the PROOF before I condemn the guy. But all the while, I fully recognize there is a liklihood Sosa took 'em.

He's probably talking about Dusty's "nothing hurts. nothing, nothing, nothing" Was that a lie or did Baker think the discomfort was normal Spring Training soreness? I think it was the latter. I think you're right. But I'm pretty sure that's the quote the previous poster was so steamed up about. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt here. Thanks for the benefit of the doubt, friend, and yes, the Dusty quote was one of the "blatant lies" I was referring to. The other was from GM Jim Hendry, who said something like, "This is the first we've heard Prior was hurt." ..and there was also this from the original Will Carroll article, which brings Larry Rothschild into the mix:

Yay :D Now we can get back to preparing for the season without fear of losing another player to a WBC injury.

They wanted a stud, so they raised a wuss. This is so Cubs.

Good for them. Now hopefully they knock the USA out before another one of our players goes down with injury.

So basically: Zambrano Maddux (2 months away from his best pitching) Junk Junk Optional Junk Get ready, it's going to be a long April.

First of all, I am unable to take any news on the health of a Cub player at face value. So I'm not sure I believe the report. Sorry, it's been too many lies... Secondly though, the end result is the same: he can't/won't pitch. Even if it's just the Cubs treating Prior with kid gloves---if in the end he doesn't take the mound regularly, then there is no point to any of it anyway. Prior's star is fading rapidly. He needs to put in 2 or 3 seasons of injury-free, stellar pitching to recover. Everyone's calling him injury prone now. Maybe that's not true. But if he's just too wimpy to pitch with pain what's the difference? You can't be a star from the bench/DL.

Healthy pitchers pitch. Those who are throwing with towels instead of pitching, or engaged in other rehab-type activites *instead* of pitching, are injured. That's just simple logic.

Um, yeah. All I'm gonna say is Marte is on the Cleveland Indians. Other than that fact, his overall point makes some sense to me. It may be only March, but it's clear this is not a contender. I'm not sure what sense there is to throwing guys like Neifi and Grissom out there day after day. What purpose does it serve on a 3rd or 4th place ballclub? Sure, there could be some miracle and the Cubs could win some games. But it's a real outside shot now with the injuries. Doesn't a youth movement at least need to be put back on the table as an option? Not a youth movement. Just smarter spending. We may need to get rid of Hendry, Baker, MacPhail after this year. I just hope we get some good minds running the show if we fail this year. Yunno. Minds that won't pay $2.5-$3.0m for the likes of Neifi, Rusch, Jones, ect. . . EDIT: It CHANGED M.c.f.a.i.l to the proper spelling??!?! Smart messege bored. LOL. :lol: I have had the MacPhail spelling changed too :) McFAI.L!!!!