Soul

Does anybody really believe in 7-10 days he'll be back throwing and everything will be fine? I believe he'll be throwing in 7-10 days, that can range from throwing 5 10 feet on up. But, he won't be fine. He still has a long ways to go before he's ready to face opposing hitters ate the level expected from him. I'm still not seeing anything positive. There's absolutely no assurance this won't continue to come back. It started after mild throwing with a towel and a couple simu-games. That's not very encouraging. Being objective about it, I would say this will likely haunt him the entire season. They aren't even really treating it at all. Instead, they are simply resting it. Prior already had months of rest. 7-10 days more isn't likely to magically cure this problem. If someone can show how this is a one-time incident only, I would gladly re-assess. But as of now, I see nothing that says this won't continue to come back.

.....which when I look at how this season is shaping up, might not have been a bad thing.

Bonds did not admit that at all, nor did the government prove that what he did take was steroids. Go back and look at the articles and show me where it says that Bonds did the substances known as the cream and the clear. Show me where Bonds knows either before or after he took them that there were steroids in them. So far up to this points Bonds has stated that there are no steroids in him nor has he ever taken them. He has never said that he unknowingly took them or knowingly took them. Nor has the government ever actually made a direct link of steroid and bonds. They have evidence for sure but there is no smoking gun. No Bonds purchased the drugs, no Anderson saying I saw Bonds take the drugs, nothing. What we have is BALCO selling drugs to Anderson and then the assumption that the drugs are for Bonds. It may very well be true but the government has not been able to make that connection yet. If they had then Bonds would be indicted by now, he has not been. Am I defending BOnds? No, I think he used steroids, I also don't care that he used steroids. But the point isn't what we think but what we "know" and what we can prove. This is about law and order. I wanted Barry BOnds to have the full protection of the law and rules that govern us. Because if somebody like him, somebody who everyone wants to "get" is protected from improper processing then that means I am protected as well, an innocent. Lynch mobs maybe expediate and may even solve a problem in the short run but when a society sets asides its laws and procedure for the sake of expediance then no one is safe in that society from the lynch mob. Obviously this board is all about opinions.....I'm giving you mine. A jury sends a murderer to his death based on their *opinion* of the evidence, too. I'm telling you that, in my opinion, based on the evidence we have available to us now, there's proof beyond a reasonable doubt Bonds took steroids. Do I "know"? No, I don't know. That would be proof beyond all doubt (see Palmiero). But when I look at the case against Barry Bonds as it stands right now: in my opinion that's proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Just like in the case against Pete Rose we didn't absolutely KNOW until he confessed. But the circumstancial case against him was strong. Not entirely the same thing here, but it's similar.

Incredible. Not one Big 10 team through to the Sweet 16!

....but the real point is, Prior developed shoulder soreness after throwing with a towel for a couple weeks. That has to be a massive concern. What will happen when he puts real pressure on that shoulder?

His W-L record isn't really the issue. At all. or any pitcher for that matter. BTW dont dismiss record completely it does factor in, it is the ultimate measure of success. I know it isnt something the pitcher has complete control over, but in the end it doesnt matter if you had 200 plus strikeouts and a great ERA, if you didnt win games you werent a success. Also when you look at the numbers it is a strong indicator of success in wins, if you have the above stats then you most likely will have a good record, but it doesnt guarentee it. A W is all that matters at the end of the day. I may very well be wrong, but thats just how I feel :D W-L is not a primary stat in determining a pitcher's worth. That's pretty well documented. The problem is, voters still use it for things like the Cy Young, All-Star game, and even the Hall of Fame to some degree. It may not be the primary factor, but it is still looked at. So as long as people factor it in, it will continue to be mentioned.

I knew when I saw everyone had Illinois on their lists, it was going to be trouble. You all need to learn the art of reverse psychology! No seriously, when I saw they would run into a #5 in the round of 32 I sort of mentally circled that matchup "this could be trouble."

Oh God please no, not the dreaded "we're going to let it quiet down" treatment. :?

Give Ryu and/or Guzman a shot. Hendry tried all offseason to find another starter. Didn't work. It's unlikely he will find a quality one now.

It doesn't say anything about our players that they lost. That's silly. Our guys aren't even in ST form yet, to say nothing of being in mid-season form, or post season form. And that's precisely why the way the WBC is set up isn't good. We've got alot of important players going full-bore in March, before they are traditionally ready to play. I suppose players could start preparing themselves earlier-----but then why have ST at all? And besides, after a long 6-month season of 162 ballgames + playoffs, I can totally understand ballplayers wanting to take a little time off. Which is probably why so many refused to play the WBC. They knew they would have to sacrifice some of their downtime, or else risk injury. That's a hell of a position to put players in, especially when you've got teams like Cuba who are primed and ready to play from the get-go. I'm glad some people are enjoying this, but it's got alot of problems.

Damn, I was right to be worried about Illinois :cry:

It's so easy to pile on Prior now, after he has had some problems. And to try and sell books & product off the injury of a player----that's just sick. That idiot should be taken out and beaten with a stick.

With all due respect, that's ridiculous. Bonds admitted to taking the clear and the cream, and the government established what those substances were. That's why Bonds came up with the story about not knowing what was in them. And that story has now been impeached by a recent book. You aren't seriously trying to defend Bonds (just curious)? Do what you like, but it's....inadvisable. He juiced to the max for several seasons, there's such little doubt about this it isn't even funny.

That's an excuse. Nobody can say how his MLB club would have handled him in ST. Nobody can say what would have happened or would not have happened. Stick with facts (see above).

The huge difference in steals between Pierre and Hairston didn't make up the huge difference in OBP that Hairston had over Pierre last year. Hairston was a better leadoff hitter last year than Pierre. What if Hairston starts at 2B and hits 2nd in the order, are the Cubs still in trouble? I should qualify that. I think we're in dire trouble regardless. That said, I'd much rather have Walker playing 2nd and hitting 2nd than Hairston. I'd rather Hairston come off the bench.

Totally and completely accurate. But that doesn't mean that the injury would NOT have happened if he had NOT participated in the WBC. It is faulty logic to state that the WBC is WHY he is hurt. It's like saying tall women are attractive -- Jane Doe is tall -- therefore Jane is attractive. He came into the WBC off arm surgery, he pitched in the WBC, he was hurt. I sincerely doubt that pitching in the WBC or pitching in spring training wouldn't have resulted in the same thing. I go back to what I said earlier. I don't think that the Nats are 'in bounds' by blaming the WBC. If I'm a player coming off surgery in the last 12 mos., as strong as the siren song of playing for your country may be, I'd have to think long and hard what that may mean for my career. And I don't blame the Nats for being angry -- I just don't agree with the logic that stats that there is a direct correlation between participating in the WBC leading to injury. In fact, I think that teams angry at the lack of playing time for some of their players, or those players who find themselves behind in position battles to have a more legitmate beef with the WBC. But to jump into a form of elite competition after arm surgery without listening to your employer? Well that's just bloody stupid. Understood. But it puts these guys in a bad position. We might not understand it here in the US, but it can be pretty difficult to face your countrymen after having bowed out of representing them. Any injury that happens in the WBC can be excused by saying "it might have happened in spring training, too." I'm not going to go there. Instead, I'm going to call those injuries that take place in WBC games, WBC injuries. I agree it wasn't a good idea for him to pitch. I also think it illustrates what the WBC brings to the baseball landscape: added pressure to compete, the added wear and tear of full-force competition for an extra month.

I won't go into much detail as why the Cubs leadoff hitters of '05 being replaced by Pierre is nowhere near the impact of replacing a below avg corner OF'er (Jones) with the greatest single season in MLB history (Bonds of '01). But, Patterson was hitting leadoff less than 25% of the time last year as Hairston led the Cubs in leadoff ABs with 306. Hairston of '05 had an OBP of .342 leading off. Pierre in '05 had an OBP of .322 leading off. If the Cubs would've given Hairston the chance to start and leadoff (when he wasn't injured) more than likely would've been better off with Hairston leading off than Pierre last year. For his career, Pierre has a .355 OBP, which isn't too far off of what I'd expect fron Hairston. To put it in perspective, if the Cubs went w/Hairston (CF) and Walker (2B) over Pierre (CF) and Perez (2B), the Cubs would be better off offensively with Hairston and Walker. Pierre is the best option at leadoff currently, but this offense won't make any dramatic improvements b/c of him, especially if Perez gets a fair share of ABs hitting 2nd. Having Murton for a full season will have a greater impact on this offense than Pierre. Baker could've easily negated the gaping hole with the 1-2 hitters if he could've put together a decent batting order last year. Hairston doesn't steal a base like Pierre, UK. Hairston is junk. He's done nothing since coming here except play spot duty at positions we would have needed much better talent to succeed. If he leads off/starts @ 2nd, we're in trouble.

Agreed. He pitched to just one batter in the game against the US and just one other inning the entire WBC. There was something wrong with his arm and his time in the WBC had nothing to do with it. Speculation. The fact is, he incurred the injury playing in the WBC. Nobody can say what would have happened if he was pitching warm-up innings in Spring Training as opposed to going full-bore in the WBC. He may have had better supervision in Spring Training too---which may well helped lessen the severity of the injury. Or maybe not. Impossible to say, but he got injured playing in the WBC so it's a WBC injury. It's also speculation to say he wouldn't have died on the field if he was in ST. Dumb speculation, but speculation nonetheless. The Nats are covering their ass since they overworked him last year, and now they can just avoid all blame and push it on the WBC. Call it what you want. Facts: 1) He was playing in the WBC. 2) He got injured while playing in the WBC. 3) Therefore, it was a WBC injury.

I'm worried about Illinois today.

He's a leadoff man who has had success in the league AS a leadoff man. That right there makes him an upgrade. The last time we had that was the 2nd half of 2003---which was also, perhaps not coincidentally, the last time we went to the playoffs.

Agreed. He pitched to just one batter in the game against the US and just one other inning the entire WBC. There was something wrong with his arm and his time in the WBC had nothing to do with it. Speculation. The fact is, he incurred the injury playing in the WBC. Nobody can say what would have happened if he was pitching warm-up innings in Spring Training as opposed to going full-bore in the WBC. He may have had better supervision in Spring Training too---which may well helped lessen the severity of the injury. Or maybe not. Impossible to say, but he got injured playing in the WBC so it's a WBC injury.

yes, but is Lee projected to miss any regular season games? He may be banged up, but Ayala is a full year deal (maybe longer depending on his recovery time from Tommy John...) True. Lee's injury was more of a ding. But it will push back his training schedule, as any injury would.

I don't really have a strong feeling for him, one way or the other. I think it's interesting that not ONE critic of Pierre commented on these numbers. The main reason is because those stats have no bearing whatsoever on the converstation. They were illustritive that Pierre saw pitches and made contact, nothing else. No, it's because the massive, wideranging anti-Pierre conspiracy made sure the truth was squelched.

You do realize Steve Stone isn't a doctor, never gives any real solid baseball information when interviewed, usually gives vague answeres to specific questions and has a Paul Bunyan sized axe to grind with the Cubs, right? And he is negative about everything so considering he is commenting about the Cubs has a better than average chance of being right even if he has no clue what he is talking about. Does Stoney speak different on the radio than he does for say his ESPN games? I watched an ESPN game last year and he had nothing but positive things to say about the Cubs -- AND they weren't even playing in the game. There is no doubt in my mind that Stoney is one of the biggest Cubs homers around and it is pretty pathetic that both sides can't let it drop. The Cubs do themselves no good by trying running out of town an analyst who was simply frustrated with a bad team and spoke his mind on the air. There also seems to be a pattern of publicly disgracing anyone who disagrees with them or whom they don't like. My guess is that once Walker is traded we will hear every negative thing that he has done since donning a Cubs uniform. Maybe they even have video surviellance of him leaving a game early, etc. Oh, do not get me wrong. The Cubs have become a PR joke, with the way they tend to handle news and react to things. To answer your question about Stone, he is on WSCR about 3-4 times a week, and is generally critical, snide, and smart alecked about it. I can understand the critical, but it's in the tone of his delivery that smacks of sour grapes and immaturity. Maybe he's playing to his audience/host, since they all tend to be pretty negative about the Cubs. The other thing I don't like is that he typically doesn't offer much insight when he answeres a question. Well, in Stoney's defense, when he's on WSCR its with Boers & Bernstein. Their whole schtick is to be snide and sarcastic, so Stoney falls right into it each time. I, too, have had occasion to listen to Stoney's analysis in other forums and he isn't nearly so caustic.

I'm glad some people are enjoying it, don't get me wrong. But we knew it would cause MLB teams to lose some players, and that has now happened. It will be interesting to see what happens next year. If I'm a GM, I start looking at building "no WBC" clauses into some players' contracts, if possible. BTW---he's not the first WBC casualty. Derek Lee was also injured playing in the WBC.