Outshined_One

Everything's posted!

I would not be surprised if teams were enamored of Hill at the trade deadline. However, from many of the reports I've heard about the Reds, they were trying to hold teams for ransom with Kearns, Dunn, and Pena. It's not like the Cubs were asked for Hill straight up in exchange for Dunn; it was more likely a package of Hill, Pie, and Marshall for Dunn. If Hill was the base line asking price, there are a bunch of franchises out there with a comparable or better pitching prospect who could have topped that offer. Clearly, no team did. Either we way overvalue those players or the asking price was too much for any team to bare. Considering how tight the WC race and how an addition like Dunn or Kearns would turn the tide, I'm guessing the price was just too much. It's one thing to foolishly clutch prospects overvalued by the market until they no longer have value any more. It's another thing entirely to gut your farm system.

I understand completely what the two of you are saying. Unfortunately, at the moment, I disagree with the two of you. My comments were not directed at anyone in specific, but was more of a general observation regarding this board, especially as of late. Hill to me is an important commodity to close out the season. Of the most advanced minor league pitchers who could be called up now, Hill arguably had the highest ceiling of any of them and the best prospect of all of them. Guys like Nolasco, Pinto, Brownlie, Pignatiello, and so on are all guys who have talent and the upside to make something of themselves some day. But, Hill was the most advanced, had the best stuff, and has established himself as a starter. People often call Hill a one year wonder based on his numbers in the minors. I don't find this statement to be true. If you go back and read scouting reports on him, he has always been an advanced and mature prospect. What has mattered the most to him since the day he set foot in the Cubs' organization was whether or not he could throw his curveball for strikes. As many are well aware, his curveball at one point was the most unpredictable pitch in his arsenal. Sickening movement to the point of it causing batters and coaches to jump out of the way in some cases, and in others causing the backstop to quiver for fear of its existence. If he could ever throw his curveball for strikes, he'd move quickly. He was a strikeout/flyball pitcher from day one; no one ever denied that. Last season, he started to do that. Problem is, exhaustion first set in and relegated him to irregular bullpen duty. When he was starting to get his stuff back, hurricane season set in and ended the Florida State League's season. This season was merely a continuation of it. And when it comes to the Cubs' system, you have to look at a lot of important factors regarding the development of prospects. Top prospects don't always pan out. Heck, look at these BA Top 5 prospects in 1990, 1991, and 1992: 1990: 1. Steve Avery, lhp, Braves 2. Ben McDonald, rhp, Orioles 3. John Olerud, 1b/lhp, Blue Jays 4. Juan Gonzalez, of, Rangers 5. Sandy Alomar Jr., c, Indians 1991: 1. Todd Van Poppel, rhp, Athletics 2. Andujar Cedeno, ss, Astros 3. Ryan Klesko, 1b, Braves 4. Jose Offerman, ss, Dodgers 5. Roger Salkeld, rhp, Mariners 1992: 1. Brien Taylor, lhp, Yankees 2. Todd Van Poppel, rhp, Athletics 3. Roger Salkeld, rhp, Mariners 4. Chipper Jones, ss, Braves 5. Arthur Rhodes, lhp, Orioles Those lists don't exactly blow you away, do they? Things happen to prospects. Scouts are not always right in their assessments and a myriad of things can happen to guys. Bobby Hill has floudered in his major league career with Chicago and Pittsburgh. Who's to say he wouldn't be an All Star by now if he had come up through another system? Look at the top prospects who went down because of injury. Or personal issues. So many things can derail a prospect's road to success in the majors, much less the majors itself. Now, I do remember the article which called Hill the best pitching prospect in the minors. It was written by some one who had absolutely no knowledge of the Cubs' farm system or the minor leagues in general. Odds are he saw that Hill led the minors in strikeouts at some point in the majors and consulted his Jump to Conclusions Mat. I want to say it was Marty Brennaman, but I could be wrong. I do know it was some one who had ties to the Reds. Yes, teams overhype their prospects for the purposes of trade value, but independent publications also do their own work. You could say they're buying into the hype, but considering the number of analysts and consultants they employ and consult, I'd have to think that the hype is in most cases tempered. If you want success stories with the Cubs' farm system, look no further than some of the guys mentioned in this thread. Jon Garland. Dontrelle Willis. These guys are doing pretty well this year, no? How about guys like Mark Prior and Carlos Zambrano? Both are products of the Cubs' farm system. The Cubs, like any other system have had their successes and busts. There are also a ton of guys in that farm system who I wouldn't close the book on yet, either, despite injuries or anything else. Also, after watching enough of today's game to make me sick, I'm convinced that this team is no better than any other team in the WC hunt. Houston and company might seemingly be pretenders, but I just can't see this team making a run. I think this team would be best served by just packing it in, getting rid of this abomination of a coaching staff, and gearing up for next season by seeing who could be ready to step in.

Box Scores Iowa lost 4-1 Box Score CF C. Patterson 3/4, R, K, Assist (home) 3B S. McClain 2/4 LF B. Grieve 1/4 1B D. Kelton 0/4, K 2B M. Fontenot 0/2, 2 BB, K C G. Soto 0/3 PH R. Lewis 0/1, K SP J. Leicester 8 IP, 7 H, 4 ER, 5/3 RP R. Valdes 1 perfect, 1/0 West Tenn lost 6-5 Box Score LF/CF D. Bacon 0/3, 2 BB, CS (10), K 2B R. Theriot 0/3, BB CF/RF A. Greenberg 1/4, R, K, E (1, fielding) 1B C. McGehee 1/4, R, K SS B. Coats 1/3, R, E (30, fielding), HBP LF L. Montanez 1/3, K PH B. Sing 0/1 3B A. Sisk 1/3, BB, R, 2 K SP R. O'Malley 5.1 IP, 8 H, 5 R, 3 ER, 0/4 Daytona won a wild one 11-10 in the 10th Box Score CF C. Walker 3/5, 3 R, 2B (18) 3B S. Moore 4/6, R, 5 RBI, HR (18), 3 E (throw x2, fielding) 1B B. Dopirak 2/5, R, 2 RBI, 2B (21), K RF J³ 1/4, BB, R, K C J. Fox 1/4, 2 RBI, 3 K, HBP SP R. Wells 3 IP, 4 H, 2 ER, 3/0 RP A. Tavares 1 scoreless, 2 H, 1/0 Peoria lost 6-1 Box Score CF S. Fuld 1/4 2B E. Patterson 0/3, 3 K PH/2B L. Rivera 0/1, RBI RF R. Harvey 0/4, 2 K DH D. Larsen 2/4, K SS J. Simokaitis 0/2, BB SP M. Weber 2 IP, 9 H, 5 ER, 4/2 Boise lost 6-5 Box Score CF D. Gregg 0/4, BB, R DH M. Reed 2/4, 2 R, 2B (7), K 1B C. Gaskin 0/3, BB RF J. Defendis 2/4, R, RBI SS K. Reynolds 1/3, BB, R, 2 E (8, throw, fielding) LF J. Valdez 1/3, RBI, K 3B E. Puello 1/4, RBI, K C P. Farina 1/4, K, 2 E (3, throw x2) 2B J. Mota 0/4, K SP J. Yepez 5 IP, 3 H, 1 ER, 5/2, HR Mesa lost 6-2 Box Score 2B E. Serrano 0/4, BB, CS (4), 2 K 3B V. Heredia 0/3, BB, 3 K RF S. Harris 1/4 C M. Mercedes 1/4, R 1B R. Canzler 0/4, 2 K LF R. Episcopo 0/4, 2 K SS S. Baez 2/4, R, K CF R. Brown 1/3, 2 RBI SP C. Pina 5 IP, 4 H, 2 ER, 1/0, HR OVERALL: 1-5

You know, I've come to realize a lot of people around here are more than happy to be contrary for the sake of being contrary. For cripes sake, these guys are just prospects. Do you remember the numbers Barry Bonds posted in his rookie year? How about Greg Maddux? Did they post numbers that made people think, "Future Hall of Famer!"? What about some former rookies of the year like Ben Grieve and Todd Hollandsworth (both current cubs, oddly enough)? What did they ever accomplish in their careers? Don't go around cutting these kids off at the knees because they go out and have a bad outing or a bad month or whatever. They are prospects and should not be lauded as the second coming, I agree. But the moment one of them shows any signs of weakness, I notice that certain factions on this board have a spaz attack talking about how overhyped and useless the Cubs' farm system is and how it has churned out nothing but trash. Give it a rest already. None of us can claim for sure that Rich Hill, Chris Walker, Sam Fuld, Jonathan Mota, or any number of guys who can be considered "prospects" will flourish or flop in the majors. But to jump down their throats because of something similar to what happened to Hill today is just excessive, and in my opinion, rubbish. This team is toast as it is. The Cubs might as well see what they have in guys like Hill, Murton, and Cedeno while they can.

Posting boxes now!

I thought it was going to be Seo?

I've been watching this game for two minutes and already I've turned it off.

Walker, you're a fool.

Some notes for all of ya from BA's best tools lists this week (I covered the MWL earlier in the week): -In the National League, Derrek Lee was 2nd in "Best Hitter", "Best Power", and "Most Exciting Player" (Behind Pujols) and 1st in "Best Defensive 1B". Greg Maddux was awarded "Best Control". -In the PCL, no Iowa Cubs were named. :( -In the Southern League, Ricky Nolasco was awarded "Best Control" and Casey McGehee was awarded "Best Defensive 3B". -In the Florida State League, Chris Walker was named "Fastest Baserunner". Give a round of applause for these award winners! =D> Also, I'm planning on going out on the town tonight. I should have most of the boxes updated before heading out...but I just thought I'd give you all a heads up. :D

Box Scores Iowa lost 6-3 after giving up 3 in the 10th Box Scores CF C. Patterson 2/4, BB, R, K RF D. Kelton 1/5, R, K 3B/1B S. McClain 1/4, BB, RBI, 2B (22), 2 K C G. Soto 0/4, K 1B M. Hoffpauri 0/4 2B R. Lewis 1/4, R, RBI, HR (1), K 3B M. Fontenot 0/1, K SP J. Koronka 7 IP, 5 H, 2 ER, 5/3, HR RP C. Bartosh 1 scoreless, 1 H, 1/1 RP J. Van Buren 1 hitless, 1 ER, 0/1 RP C. Pignatiello 1 IP, 4 H, 3 ER, 1/1 West Tenn won 5-3 Box Score LF D. Bacon 0/3, 2 BB, R, CS (9) 2B R. Theriot 2/4, 2 RBI, 2B (25) CF A. Greenberg 0/3, RBI 1B B. Sing 0/4, 2 K SS B. Coats 0/4, K RF L. Montanez 2/3, BB, R 3B A. Sisk 1/4, R, 2 RBI, HR (4) C J. Reyes 1/2, R 3B C. McGehee 0/1 SP R. Pinto 6 IP, 7 H, 2 ER, 3/3, HR RP D. Aardsma 1 IP, 2 H, 1 ER, 1/0 RP A. Shipman 1 scoreless, 1 H, 1/1 Daytona lost 7-2 Box Score CF C. Walker 1/4, BB, R, SB (45), CS (16), K 1B B. Dopirak 1/4, RBI, 2B (20), K RF J³ 1/3, BB, 2B (25), 2 K C J. Fox 2/4, R, 2B (18) SP JR Mathes 6 IP, 8 H, 6 R, 5 ER, 1/3 RP A. Tavares 1 IP, 1 H, 1 ER, 1/0, HR Peoria won 6-5 Box Score CF S. Fuld 1/5, 2 RBI, 2 K 2B E. Patterson 2/5, R, SB (32), K RF R. Harvey 2/4, R, 2 RBI, 2B (28), HR (20) DH B. Flowers 1/5, R, 2 K SS J. Simokaitis 1/3, BB, RBI, K 3B L. Rivera 1/4 SP M. Billek 4.1 IP, 2 H, 3 ER, 3/3, HR Boise was shut out 8-0 Box Score CF D. Gregg 0/4, K C M. Reed 1/4, K RF J. Defendis 0/3, K PH P. Farina 0/1 1B C. Gaskin 1/4 SS K. Reynolds 1/3, K LF J. Valdez 0/3 3B E. Puello 0/3 2B J. Rios 0/3, K SP M. Atkins 5 IP, 5 H, 2 ER, 4/3 RP A. Santana 2 IP, 7 H, 2 ER, 3/0, HR Mesa won 6-3 Box Score 2B E. Serrano 1/5, R, SB (12), 2 K 3B V. Heredia 1/4, BB, R, CS (1) RF D. Lewis 0/3, 3 K PR R. Brown 0/0, R LF R. Episcopo 2/4, R, CS (1) C Y. Carter 0/3, 2 K DH R. Canzler 1/2, 2 BB, R, K CF S. Harris 1/3, 2 RBI, 2B (1) SS S. Baez 1/4, 2B (2) SP J. Castillo 4 IP, 5 H, 2 ER, 1/2 RP B. Jackson 3 IP, 3 H, 1 ER, 1/0 OVERALL: 3-3

Thank you very much for answering our questions Mr. McGehee! You have shifted around the diamond in your career a fair amount. Out of all of the positions you've played so far, what has been your favorite? Do you enjoy the challenge of honing the appropriate skillsets that come with each position? Thanks again!

Mr. Shipman, What led you down the path to becoming a pitcher? Did you idolize any pitchers growing up, love the game of baseball as a young man, or did some other events lead you to becoming a pitcher today? Secondly, what do you think you need to work on the most in order to become a successful major leaguer? Thanks a bunch for answering these questions! We look forward to your answers.

Mr. Keller, First off, thank you so much for taking our questions here! We really appreciate it. On this website we have a lot of parents of children who might be interested in getting into baseball as well as some younger posters who want to get into baseball at lower levels (i.e. high school). My question is, what kind of basic advice would you give to these people as a hitting coach? Are there any bad habits that young hitters should avoid at all costs or good habits that could help a player go a long way in life if they start them early enough? Thanks again!

My bad on last night folks, I got caught up in some stuff, then was so tired at the end of the night that I went to bed without posting today's scheduled stuff.

All boxes updated!

Mr. Sisk. First off, thank you so much for taking our questions! My question for you is, what led you on the path to become a baseball player? Did you grow up idolizing pro players? Were you just really good at sports in high school and transition to baseball naturally? Or was it something else?

Sorry folks, I got caught up in something tonight. I'll be posting the boxes ASAP.

Mesa's box still hasn't been posted. :x I'll try to remember this, but if some one else notices it and I haven't updated here, lemme know plz.

I thought that honor went to Sosa? And then was claimed by Corey Patterson.

fixed. He did absoultely terrible today in everything...couldn't play fundamental offense and that play to end the game will be the joke of the year. Absolutely pathetic. I really hope Hank is starting tomorrow. It wasn't just Barrett. It was the first pitch popups. It was the lack of hustle by the pitchers to cover first. The sheer lack of patience against a starter who has control issues. This game sucked.

That's not inexperience. That's a result of bad instincts, bad fundamentals, and most of all, bad coaching. Blech, saw way too much of that tonight.

I have NEVER seen a play like that before. Holy moley, this game was an atrocity from a fundamental standpoint.

Where the %^$&%&%# was that 2-2!?

*Raises hand*