So if he's a pretty good option for a 5th starter, what is Marquis? The whole basis for people supporting him seems to have been, "he's okay for a 5th starter". So I guess now we have two? I get what you're saying and don't necessarily disagree, but I don't care to see both Lieber and Marquis in the same rotation. Lieber's actually fine for a 4th starter. A good 4th starter is league average, and a lower end 4th starter is a little below league average. That's Lieber, and he's consistently there. Projecting him for a 4.75 ERA or so would put him as an average 4th starter. Marquis jumps around. Last year he was a #3 starter. He's had years where he shouldn't have been in a rotation at all. It's hard to project what Marquis is because of his huge inconsistency. Lieber and Marquis as the #4 and #5 will likely outproduce most of the #4's and #5's around the National League, unless 1 of 2 things happen: 1) Marquis absolutely collapses (another season above 5.50 ERA) 2) Lieber gets hurt, only pitches 70 innings again, and his replacement from the minors is awful. If #2 happens, then it would have happened anyway because the alternative is that replacement from the minors getting all 200 innings. We just have to hope #1 doesn't happen. As I said in another thread, the Cubs were #2 in the NL in their starting rotation last year. Their #5 spot had a combined 5.10 ERA (Miller, Guzman, Marshall, and Trachsel). Z is not likely to drop off much more and might improve back to numbers of a previous year. Lilly will drop off. Hill will likely get a little better. Marquis might stay the same, might drop off a little bit, might drop off significantly. Lieber and anybody who replaces him will likely do better than a 5.10 ERA, so the #5 spot will be better than last year. That makes this rotation of Z, Lilly, Hill, Marquis, and Lieber almost as good as last year. The rotation will likely be top 5 in the NL once again. I think the problem that some posters have with Lieber and the likes is that Cubs fans were spoiled with Zambrano, Wood, Prior, Clement, Maddux (or at least the concept of them all being healthy and pitching to potential) and expect every pitcher in the rotation to have a sub-4.00 ERA. Reality is, this is not the case. Obviously, I'd love for us to have this happen, but if we are projecting an above average offense with Fukudome and possibly Roberts, we might have to deal with an average to slightly above average rotation. Combined with a very good bullpen and a good bench, thats a NL Central winning ballclub most likely.