Wilson A2000

When the heads of SEC and ACC officiating looked at the Clowney hit individually, one said it was illegal and he would be kicked out if that happened this year, while the other didn't think it was. You can review these hits though to make sure someone should or shouldn't be kicked out, right?

OK. You should get vilified for wanting something that you agreed you wouldn't get if you did PEDs when you signed your contract.

What the teams agreed to pay them is what the CBA stipulates and what their contracts stipulate including penalties resulting from PED suspensions. ARod has no one but himself to blame. He said he felt pressured to take PEDs in Texas to live up to his record-setting contract - a contract no one twisted his arm to sign.

If Cutler is bad I bet they let him go and rebuild. If he's good wouldn't they just resign him?

True. What are the franchise tag numbers the next two years? $20 million per?

Anyone think Cleveland or Buffalo or Miami or Jacksonville offers Cutler $23 million a year if Cutler performs well and the Bears lose him this offseason?

I guess I have to say it one more time so we all know - Bonds would have been a Hall of Famer before he took steroids. I made that clear from the beginning. But he would not have been the best ever without PED's and I think his career numbers make him the best hitter, if not the best player ever. Someone who went to the level Bonds went to juice and cheat out of sheer jealousy - maybe an unprecedented level of juicing (the repeat offender ARod is close) and became the best ever only because of that does not belong in the Hall. I prefer a Hall of Fame that isn't tainted. You can say that there are people who are in the Hall who cheated. I'm sure there are plenty, but that in no way means we should allow every cheater in from now on. Once a baseball stat becomes a stat I don't think you can wipe it away. Bonds can keep his fake stats, but he needs to be punished. Staying out of the Hall is what I would consider fair. This is one of the deterrents baseball needs to try to stop the current steroid era. Vance, greenies were not illegal for most of Aaron's career. Even if he took them regularly, I would have no problem with it. All the players had access to them and MLB had no problem with them until '71. And the fact that everyone could take greenies legally pre '71 is the point. Greenies were advantageous and they were legally there for the taking. Post 1991 steroids and PED's weren't. I don't know enough law to determine if your DR scenario is considered legal by MLB, but I find it highly unlikely that a guy dumb enough to use a corked bat only took PED's in the DR. Sammy doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt. Would they even work well if he was off them during the season and on during the offseason? Don't you need to be on regular cycles?

Why did the Bears sign Ellis and not Idonije? They were making the same money and Idonije could have moved inside.

Yeah, allowing non-whites to play didn't mean [expletive]. We're only comparing types of PED's here, not race

Besides all the bogus circumstantial evidence you use to judge players who aren't 100 years old If by circumstantial evidence you mean testing positive for steroids Something tells me you haven't bought any positive tester's "only one time" or "it was an accident" excuse like you did for St. Henry. St Pettitte. Either way wasn't against the rules for Aaron.

As long as you don't include what happened throughout the 20s and into the early 30s Or in the late 60s when apparently the pitchers were all roided up. There is a reason the most recent era is called the steroid era Because ESPN sucks? No because designer steroids had a far bigger impact on performance than anything before it

Besides all the bogus circumstantial evidence you use to judge players who aren't 100 years old If by circumstantial evidence you mean testing positive for steroids

As long as you don't include what happened throughout the 20s and into the early 30s Or in the late 60s when apparently the pitchers were all roided up. There is a reason the most recent era is called the steroid era

LOL. What shred of evidence do you have that this is not the case? Absolutely nothing. Look, if you guys can't prove this negative, I don't know how you expect Wilson to take you seriously. Don't make a claim if you can't back it up. And you can't back it up.

They weren't really breaking any rules? If by 'any' you mean the rule that says don't take steroids then they were. I'm not romanticizing anyone. It's not romanticizing to say we have no reason to think Hank took amphetamines outside of the one time he said he did which was legal federally and in baseball until 1971.

All this to try to protect steroid era players. They don't deserve that. What happened from 1998-now is unprecedented.

LOL. What shred of evidence do you have that this is not the case? Absolutely nothing.

Is that legal under MLB rules? I just don't think we have to try that hard to excuse cheaters.

Probably. But you don't know why me (and a lot of other people) are hung up on Bonds breaking two of sports most important records and doing it while cheating? That's what this has always been about. I'm OK with moving on.

I don't think Bonds, Sosa, or ARod used a legal PED alone. There was always something illegal they were taking in addition to any legal ones. I don't have a problem if you have a prescription. I don't think they did. There's so much wrong with this I don't even know where to begin. You could have stopped posting when jersey did. But feel free to correct me and start a thread on evolution too.

The point is that "looking for huge guys" isn't an accurate way of guessing who was and is using PEDs. Not everyone hulks out. When do you think Sosa started using? Sure, not everyone does. But Bonds did. That is really not debatable. Nobody has disagreed with that point, so I have no idea what you think you're arguing. So his power and build increase from 1993-1997 was just one of those things? I never said everyone gets huge after PED's, but you asked me how I knew Bonds got big and I said 25 lbs of muscle in one offseason and that most everyone in the Giants organization put two and two together was plenty of evidence. When Sosa went from 36 to 66 home runs and had gotten huge rather quickly, something was up. I said he could have started PED's before 1998. Probably did. But I'm certain he was on them in 1998.

I don't think Bonds, Sosa, or ARod used a legal PED alone. There was always something illegal they were taking in addition to any legal ones. I don't have a problem if you have a prescription. I don't think they did.

The point is that "looking for huge guys" isn't an accurate way of guessing who was and is using PEDs. Not everyone hulks out. When do you think Sosa started using? Sure, not everyone does. But Bonds did. That is really not debatable. Sosa most likely started at least between 1997-1998.

Wait, you think ALL "steroids" were made illegal in 1991? Made illegal in baseball those that were already illegal by federal law. "The possession, sale or use of any illegal drug or controlled substance by Major League players or personnel is strictly prohibited.... This prohibition applies to all illegal drugs ... including steroids or prescription drugs for which the individual in possession of the drug does not have a prescription."

I said it was rare. There is no evidence that Hank did PED's other than trying them once, despite the fluctuations and his home runs staying on a level plane. Why do you think Aaron's numbers were so great toward the end of his career? There's no evidence that Sosa did either, but here we are ? http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4264062 Yes, in 2003. He never tested positive or was busted before that. You're the one that keeps railing on about evidence, and then people bring up the tests and you turn around and say the evidence is "Wilson looked at his TV and decided that guy was too big." It wasn't just me. The Fainaru-Wada SI article states that Bonds's teamates knew something was up after 1998 when he put on 20 lbs of pure muscle even though he was working his butt off for years before that. People saw the same thing with Sosa.