PriortoTheoIhadWood

I hate the SP in this system! Hate is a strong word...It's very unlikeable. McNutt needs to step up.

Meh. I'm fine the way it is.

Bryce Harper is a 19 year old Ballplayer for Washington with a 14 page thread on a Chicago Cubs message board extolling his general douchebagedness. This is an extraordinary person. People know who he is. Some athletes read and read about their sport, despite all that meat in their head. I'm sure many veterans have heard of his bs antics in the minors, and oh yes there are/were antics. I'm sure that left them none to pleased. Also like that simply stating that ARod, Griffey, and Braun never saw chin music of any kind makes it a 100% factual statement. As if it's actually improbable that that wouldn't capture the headlines the next day (with the pitcher admitting it)...Big story big story...Douchebag ballplayer gets hit by ball....read all about it...that would get everyone all in a tizz during the 80's and 90's.

in their late 20s or early 30s? barry zito, mike hampton, johan santana, jake peavy, jason schmidt, john lackey, roy oswalt (didn't completely fall off a cliff, but certainly regressed) Johan fell off a cliff?[/quote ] Zito was falling apart in his 20's. If anything he was better at 31 and 32 than he was at 29 or 30, but he hadn't been great since 25. Pretty sure Hampton was the same deal being done early. Schmidt didn't even put it together until 29 when he started pumping 99 MPH fastballs, Lackey is a good one but as a junk ball RH who got hit with injuries he's more Sanchez than Hamels?....Santana can still pitch...Oswalt went out a 2.5 WAR pitcher in 139 innings at 34 and could probably still give quality innings....whatshisname...Peavy blew his arm out in his 20's and just turned 30... None really following a similar career path here either....for instance who's got a better K rate and was increasing it into their late 20's? Did that while improving control and even getting more groundballs? No significant injury history? THe guy has been getting better the past couple of years. Mussina...David Wells....CC is doing it now (cruising in his early 30's after pitching great and accomplishing extraordinary things in his 20s like staying healthy)...

It's the same thing to me, and it's not good either way you word it. Whatever gets the point across that he's not close to elite or in the vicinity of Hamels as a pitcher.

Wow loving Szczur doing well...system needs it and so does Amercia.

I was just trying to flush out your stance. You gave yours, I gave mine, and as far as I'm concerned it's done. You got the same response you've been getting, except I indulged your injury what it nonsense. :) You're fun. I like you. Lol that makes one on NSBB.

Have I mentioned that I possess man love for both Shark and Russell?

I was just trying to flush out your stance. You gave yours, I gave mine, and as far as I'm concerned it's done. You got the same response you've been getting, except I indulged your injury what it nonsense.

Then you didn't watch the game. They didn't say anything to damn it, and considered it finished after Simmerman hit Hamels. But hey if Mitch Fuckin Williams is mad then who am I....

You've asked the same crap and presented the same scenarios numerous times....I've called them ridiculous every time. The fact that you made that the official one is just alright already. You have the right to be outraged, as minuscule as this is. Enough with trying to come up with fake situations that make it what it wasnt.

So? Why is your opinion so significant in the situation? It certainly didn't do anything to prevent the giant incident. Why do you even care? It's FINE to think he's an idiot. People thought Clemens and Gibson were [expletive]...Guess how much that mattered or what tha did to stop them or the general activity? I have opinions about lots of people who can't give a [expletive] about what I think. Bob Gibson IS an [expletive]. Why does it offend you that somebody besides you has an opinion? Yeah well....got me there. Still see nothing wrong with what happened, but sure it's fine to be outraged now that I'm reminded. Otoh I'm outraged by being grandmothered with hypotheticals that mean nothing. Someone even kinda sorta equated it with racism in this thread. Surprised Hamels isn't a Nazi yet...

Are you fuckin kidding me? STILL with the street stuff and hypothetical nonsense? That's completely different. What would happen if a hooker raped someone? If he broke his stupid wrist then I'd be in your mob. That's not even REMOTELY what happened.

So? Why is your opinion so significant in the situation? It certainly didn't do anything to prevent the giant incident. Why do you even care? It's FINE to think he's an idiot. People thought Clemens and Gibson were assholes...Guess how much that mattered or what tha did to stop them or the general activity?

I have Lefty's Legacy somewhere....Bonus babies constantly caught [expletive] and it's mentioned in the book. Even if I didnt remember that tidbit I would neeeeeveeeer care to prove such a minute event...This is SUCH a non event to me beyond people making it way more than it is. But no do go on...this is a MAJOR issue that the sport needs to really investigate. Where's the concern for Hamels, who was blatantly beaned an inning later? He didnt back down over that, and that was most definitely not an accident. Note a few pages up where I said the opposing pitcher should also be suspended for plunking Hamels. Ugh while that's fair, it's still a little queer. When did this whole "let's get outraged over nothing" thing start? They solved it themselves on the field, which despite its meatheadedness and all of official law led to NO injuries. Why do you people care so much over this? Again, it was the very realistic POTENTIAL for injury. Just because "nobody got hurt" doesn't mean that it was ok. That's why they threw (BOTH pitchers) where they threw. Im not sure what's to be misunderstood about that. Quick though Ray Chapman got killed by a HBP do use the as an example. It wasn't intentional but it WAS a HBP. Danger danger!

I have Lefty's Legacy somewhere....Bonus babies constantly caught [expletive] and it's mentioned in the book. Even if I didnt remember that tidbit I would neeeeeveeeer care to prove such a minute event...This is SUCH a non event to me beyond people making it way more than it is. But no do go on...this is a MAJOR issue that the sport needs to really investigate. Where's the concern for Hamels, who was blatantly beaned an inning later? He didnt back down over that, and that was most definitely not an accident. Note a few pages up where I said the opposing pitcher should also be suspended for plunking Hamels. Ugh while that's fair, it's still a little lame at best. When did this whole "let's get outraged over nothing" thing start? They solved it themselves on the field, which despite its meatheadedness and lack of official law/saction led to NO injuries. Why do you people care so much over this?

Yep, same thing. Black pitcher Bob Gibson would NEVER thing of knocking down a hitter! Think of what might happen!

I have Lefty's Legacy somewhere....Bonus babies constantly caught [expletive] and it's mentioned in the book. Even if I didnt remember that tidbit I would neeeeeveeeer care to prove such a minute event...This is SUCH a non event to me beyond people making it way more than it is. But no do go on...this is a MAJOR issue that the sport needs to really investigate. Where's the concern for Hamels, who was blatantly beaned an inning later? He didnt back down over that, and that was most definitely not an accident. What if he got hurt? What it he woke up and his leg was black and blue?

No no no this would have been huge. Those poor boys could have gotten hurt.... Btw good on the chin music...20 years ago and that pitch is by the head, up and in. This is a bad, bad joke.

You remember their early career stuff? Those guys NEVER saw a brush back or HBP early on? Pitchers didn't do the same thing? Cole Hamels brought this plague upon the sport and poor Bryce? These things didn't become headline news 20 years ago. No one got suspended for it. No one considered it THE story of the night. Not just that but 20 years ago the Internet wasn't full of clips of them blowing kisses to opponents and generally being a douche. It wasn't around to push the hype...I mean really?

There's something wrong with calling it that?

Prepare for alot of words NSBB. I had to do it. I'm just going to go out on the limb and say the Cubs can spend, and they'll be able to spend with anyone. I have exactly 0 doubts about that, even if I don't know for sure. It's a much safer guess than them having to pinch pennies. There's plenty of reason for that, starting with Sanchez being the far inferior talent. First off...right off the bat you're completely in denial if you think that the Cubs don't have the need. Now: Hamels - 32 starts in every season since 2007 (31 in 2011 with a relief appearance, makes up for it by setting a career high in IP) Sanchez - 2 seasons with 32 starts, 0 with 200 IP, and 4 seasons full of injuries and surgeries Personally, when I take on a massive risk I like to do it on the best possible talent. That is the person/thing with the best combination of talent, health, and results. No. No. No no no no. NEIN. 1 - bWAR has Hamels at 5.5 and 6.6 WAR the past two years. Sanchez? 2.8 and 3.9. 2 - Hamels xFIP over that time? 3.28 and 3.02. Sanchez? 4.04 and 3.25. 3 – Sanchez’s full seasons happened to come in a dramatically different run environment, though I guess I can leave that alone because Hamels is pitching now too. 4 – OTOH, Hamels pitched in a much more hitter friendly park than what Sanchez pitched in during 2011 and 2010. I’ll have to find the link, but Pro Player was also a booster for players’ K rates so there’s even danger there for Sanchez. In 2011 alone Pro Player was 6% below the league average while the Philly park is somewhere in the 3-5 range, I forget. 5 – Hamels’ career K rate is almost a full K higher, his K:BB for his career is over a 1.5 times higher (3.81 to 2.15 IIRC), his xFIP is better, his SIERA is better, he’s produced more WAR from either bbref or Fangraphs, AND he’s bigger, healthier, and for the hell of it LH. 6 – The big age advantage? EXACTLY 2 months (12/27/83 vs 2/27/84). This isn’t slightly worse, it’s an asskicking. It’s a pretty bad ass kicking. See above, but again I go with the better talent all day err day. 1 – There is NOTHING wrong with being a mid-rotation starter, and those guys are generally not scrubs if they can do it for a while. 2 – He’s probably going to get severely overpaid. 3 – He is without a doubt NOT an elite talent. Not even close. A half decade+ ago when he was a top notch prospect who DIDN’T have all the arm troubles? Sure. Now? He’s a nice starter for the Marlins who is almost 30 and hasn’t pitched 200 innings in a major league season. That’s not elite. That’s closer to the mid-rotation scrub thing you think he’s not. 4 – The risk is great with Sanchez is all that needs to be said. It’s probably the most factual statement you’ve made so far (along with the commitment being less). The injuries don't just make him a better candidate to get injured again, but they also will likely lead to more sudden decline. A decade ago he wouldn't even have a career... 1 – He hasn’t proven shyte over the past couple of years other than he might be over his injuries and that he’s a solid pitcher when healthy (which most knew anyway). 2 – My primary interest in Hamels is that he’s bigger, better, far more experienced/well traveled, has a significantly better shot at remaining healthy through his deal, AND he’s an ACTUAL elite talent capable of fronting a championship caliber rotation. My seeming disdain for Sanchez comes from him being a far lesser talent to Hamels, and the difference in cost isn’t enough to throw out that it comes solely because of Sanchez’s ridiculously bad medical history. Do some research and point to me the #1s who fell completely off a cliff in their early 30's (I'll spot you Pedro, though I'm not completely sure of it)...Clemens, Schilling, RJ, Pettite, Mussina, Madddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Halladay, Lee...why am I drawing a blank here...[expletive] well the list is long with guys who did just fine in their early 30's despite that being ancient. It's a new age...30 is the new 27...and I'm not even sure I'm being all that crazy saying that. 3 – He is a significantly lesser pitcher when you take everything in. This isn’t even a contest, and doing the research made me not even want to consider Sanchez as a mid-rotation option. There’s too much there saying “stay the hell away.”

The "why do you care about this when there are so many worse things going on?" argument is the new Godwin's Law. Yeah but it would REALLY help if there was a real argument in there. It's such useless, pointless outrage over a nothing event and the best being out out is throwing a rock at a stranger, a "what if," and an unintentional beaning gone awry.

What's that?

Btw pedigree won't drop Sanchez's price (value) for anyone but the big boys in the league who have to (should?) consider these kind of things. What's really going to drop his general price is his medical history, rightfully so. Even then his past two years will net him a nice contract because people like to overpay for pitching and will happily eliminate context (pitching in Pro Player >>> pitching in Lincoln, and IIRC that park helped K numbers) that doesn't fit the slant. All in all, I'd still rather see the Cubs spend on the stud talent rather than settle on the cheaper option because his stats are kinda sorta within range. In today's world he's not some sleeper...Theres nothing wrong with spending the money, and there's many reasons Hamels will get paid like he might/will.