Wins have been the #1 standard for the effectiveness of a starter since baseball began. Really? The Cubs had a pitcher last year that was 0-3 after 7 starts, which also happened to be his first ever 7 starts. They should have just kicked him to the curb because he sucked, eh? In 5 of those games, he left giving up 2 runs or less. Think about that for a minute. His ERA was very young Greg Maddux like during that entire 7 games and he didn't win a single one of those games. He ended up 12-10 with a 3.05 ERA, 10th best ERA in the National League. Joe Saunders went 16-7 this year with a 4.60 ERA, and his record was better than Zack Grienke's 16-8 with a 2.16 ERA, so by your calculations, Joe Saunders is better than Zack Grienke. Awesome! :stickman: Name 5 HOF starting pitchers who do not have winning records. Go ahead..we'll wait. Bruce Sutter, Rollie Fingers and Satchel Paige. If you're talking about single seasons, well pretty much all of them. What any of that has to do with anything is beyond me. When's the last time Zambrano had a losing record? There are 68 pitchers in the hall of fame. 41 have worse winning percentages than Zambrano. 19 have worse winning percentages than Kerry Wood.